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No Such Thing As Aliens On Earth Unless.....


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#31    Myles

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:15 PM

 lostpuppy211, on 12 July 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Something to think about, 1900 years and we had nothing, no technology of any sort. Ie phone, computers,etc etc In the last 70 or so years it has bloomed significantly. Do you suppose maybe we have discovered an alien space craft and are using the technology from that? Just seems weird that it took so long in life to be where we are and every year we get more and more upgraded technology. Humans are not that freaking smart.. Js

Maybe you should have thought about it a little more.   We also went many years before the industrial revolution.   The amount of advances between 1750 and 1850 rivals the advancements of the past 70 years.   You can also follow a timeline for each period.    No huge gaps.


#32    MR.Blueprint

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:14 PM

 DieChecker, on 16 July 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

So what then is keeping Earth alive? If any other sun like ours was deadly, we should be dead too. Everything that I've heard says that a G2 class star is considered one of the safer main sequence stars, and account for 5 to 10 percent of the galaxy's stars.

A thick atmosphere is more then enough to protect even a planet with no magnetic field. (At least for a while.) And a magnetic field makes the planet even much, much more protected. The magnetic field could even come from orbiting a gas giant like Jupiter, if it was in the Goldilocks Zone.

If you have some kind of reference saying how dangerous G class stars are, I'd like to see it.


I've heard that before, but I've never seen any proof of the theory, only speculation, based on a (very) possible super-massive black hole at the center of the galaxy.

This says that gamma rays have been detected, but they are aimed Outside the galactic disc.
http://www.scienceda...20529133752.htm


That is still completely unknown. Various lab tests have shown that the creation of life naturally may be easy, or it might be hard. It is still not known. So your opinion is just opinion.


im not giving up references jus research it yourself google search for new life on other planets

and our magnetic field is wats keepin us alive all planet dnt have magnetic fields such as mars without a magnetic field a planet that is close to the sun or in the goldie zone will be assaulted by sun flares

also dnt forget our moon our moon is why we are here too

and a thick atmosphere made of what?

our oxygen atmosphere was created on this planet from photosysthesis created by its creatures and planets using the sun for energy


here watch this  


i also believe we not migh not find another solar system wit 8 planets....our first four planets are lucky to be here usually gas giants knock the smaller planets out of orbit

the question is how so much water get on this planet ...most planets are made up gases no rock,,,or rock and ice with no water

we happen to be made 75% of water with 25% of rock and ice

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#33    Super-Fly

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:30 PM

Glad to see this is still going.

Even more interesting points made.

Tidy.

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#34    DieChecker

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:28 PM

 MR.Blueprint, on 16 July 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

im not giving up references jus research it yourself google search for new life on other planets
So... what this really says is.... "I've got no idea, so try looking it up yourself."

Quote

and our magnetic field is wats keepin us alive all planet dnt have magnetic fields such as mars without a magnetic field a planet that is close to the sun or in the goldie zone will be assaulted by sun flares
The Earth's magnetic field is critical, as it bends a lot of the solar wind away, but really the atmosphere is the heavy hitter as far as protection from radiation. Why else would the International Space Station and the USs former shuttles have to worry so much about solar flare radiation, though they are well within the magnetic field of the Earth, and basically are hugging the planet? It is the atmosphere, which really could be any kind of gas, that protects against all Alpha and Beta particles from space, and like 99% of the gamma radiation also.
http://imagine.gsfc....ers/970718.html

Quote

Very few gamma-rays make it through the atmosphere. The atmosphere is as thick to gamma-rays as a twelve-foot thick plate of aluminum. Gamma-rays are very very unlikely to go through that much material. However, they can strike the material and produce 'secondary' particles which are more penetrating, and can go through the material.

Most of the cosmic rays which reach the Earth's surface are 'secondary cosmic rays', produced by gamma-rays or (much more commonly) 'primary cosmic rays' hitting the top of Earth's atmosphere. These primary cosmic rays are high energy particles (such are protons and the nuclei from iron atoms) moving at very close to the speed of light. These primary cosmic rays have a hard time even getting to the top of our atmosphere--the Earth's magnetic field deflects most of them away. If Earth didn't have a magnetic field, there would be many more primary cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere, and many more secondary cosmic rays hitting us.

Quote

The cosmic rays are not very sensitive to the quality of the air (the chemical composition--how the nitrogen, oxygen, carbon and other elements in the air are joined together to make ozone, smog and other chemicals). They are more affected by the quantity of the air, because most interactions depend only on the nuclei of the atoms, and not on entire molecules. Three O2 molecules and two O3 (ozone) molecules look exactly the same to a cosmic ray. A carbon atom looks only slightly different from an oxygen or nitrogen atom, so the increased CO2 level has almost no effect. Nothing we do is likely to significantly change the number of cosmic rays hitting Earth.

Quote

also dnt forget our moon our moon is why we are here too
I'm assuming you're refering to either 1) the Tidal Theory (Where life from the ocean used the tides to adapt to the land.) or 2) Axial Tilt Theory (Where the Moon keeps the tilt stable, and thus allows for Seasons), or 3) the Metals Theory (Where it is said that due to the amount of non-metal material taken off the Earth, this allowed metals to be closer to the surface.).

The Tidal Theory, while true, does not prevent settling of the land on a slightly longer scale, and with billions of years to work with a couple millions of years more is not too troublesome. Plus, if winds exist on any world, you'll get waves from that, and thus still get inter-tidal actions where ocean creatures and plants will interact with the land. This does not prevent animals from forming in the oceans and thus does not prevent intellegence.

The Tilt Theory, which is also true, also does not prevent plants and various livable zones from forming on a planet, it only allows for greater variation and wider zones that animals can be more general and live in larger areas of the world. It in no way prevents life from forming and settling the land and becoming intellegent.

The Metals Theory, while also true, just would mean metals are harder to find. Volcanic areas would still turn up considerable amounts of metals, even in metalic forms, and thus could be used to form tools and technology. Low amounts of metals does not prevent animals from forming, or prevent intellegence from forming. It only makes advanced (metal) tool usage harder to maintain.

http://www.astronomy.../earthmoon.html

Quote

and a thick atmosphere made of what?
Does not really matter. As I posted above, it is the density of the atmosphere that matters, not what it is made of.

Quote

i also believe we not migh not find another solar system wit 8 planets....our first four planets are lucky to be here usually gas giants knock the smaller planets out of orbit

the question is how so much water get on this planet ...most planets are made up gases no rock,,,or rock and ice with no water

we happen to be made 75% of water with 25% of rock and ice
This sounds like opinions to me. Since we cannot get good enough resolution to find most rocky planets in nearby solar systems, we can't say how often rocky planets form or are tossed off into space.

The amount of water depends on what was in the local galactic dust cloud that the star and planets formed from. Even a planet with Mars level of water, which is well below 1% of what the Earth has, could support life and thus support intellegence. Sure it might be very very much slower, as the number of animals would be much lower and thus adaptation/evolution less, but given Billions of years it can still be very likely to happen.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#35    MR.Blueprint

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:39 AM

 DieChecker, on 16 July 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

So... what this really says is.... "I've got no idea, so try looking it up yourself."


The Earth's magnetic field is critical, as it bends a lot of the solar wind away, but really the atmosphere is the heavy hitter as far as protection from radiation. Why else would the International Space Station and the USs former shuttles have to worry so much about solar flare radiation, though they are well within the magnetic field of the Earth, and basically are hugging the planet? It is the atmosphere, which really could be any kind of gas, that protects against all Alpha and Beta particles from space, and like 99% of the gamma radiation also.
http://imagine.gsfc....ers/970718.html



I'm assuming you're refering to either 1) the Tidal Theory (Where life from the ocean used the tides to adapt to the land.) or 2) Axial Tilt Theory (Where the Moon keeps the tilt stable, and thus allows for Seasons), or 3) the Metals Theory (Where it is said that due to the amount of non-metal material taken off the Earth, this allowed metals to be closer to the surface.).

The Tidal Theory, while true, does not prevent settling of the land on a slightly longer scale, and with billions of years to work with a couple millions of years more is not too troublesome. Plus, if winds exist on any world, you'll get waves from that, and thus still get inter-tidal actions where ocean creatures and plants will interact with the land. This does not prevent animals from forming in the oceans and thus does not prevent intellegence.

The Tilt Theory, which is also true, also does not prevent plants and various livable zones from forming on a planet, it only allows for greater variation and wider zones that animals can be more general and live in larger areas of the world. It in no way prevents life from forming and settling the land and becoming intellegent.

The Metals Theory, while also true, just would mean metals are harder to find. Volcanic areas would still turn up considerable amounts of metals, even in metalic forms, and thus could be used to form tools and technology. Low amounts of metals does not prevent animals from forming, or prevent intellegence from forming. It only makes advanced (metal) tool usage harder to maintain.

http://www.astronomy.../earthmoon.html


Does not really matter. As I posted above, it is the density of the atmosphere that matters, not what it is made of.


This sounds like opinions to me. Since we cannot get good enough resolution to find most rocky planets in nearby solar systems, we can't say how often rocky planets form or are tossed off into space.

The amount of water depends on what was in the local galactic dust cloud that the star and planets formed from. Even a planet with Mars level of water, which is well below 1% of what the Earth has, could support life and thus support intellegence. Sure it might be very very much slower, as the number of animals would be much lower and thus adaptation/evolution less, but given Billions of years it can still be very likely to happen.





im saying i dont think there are any other intelligent complex life out there like ours we are on a resort planet that allowed simple life to evolve into to complex life...

but really i dont know why we think we so special we dont live forever we jus some fancy parasites of this planet. not the best life its cool but its not perfect and when we gone rocks and gas will still be floating around in space long after we are gone

of course its have to be some simple life somewhere out there but nothing close to us. we are unique to this planet we are earthlings you will find us no where else

i also believe oxygen is unique to earth because it was somthing created on earth

the most advance life we will find if any are some kind of plants that evolve into trees. but the plant will be nothing like earth plants because of lack of the combination of water sunlight and temperature

prolly some hollow trees that intake the planet's gas these trees will be way taller than our earth trees and the trees would be non mobile and are results of billion of years of one cell creature piling up on each other to get closer to the sun light or the opposite traveling down toward the planet inner energy



and conclusion like i said i dont know why we think we so special that we want to find more life...we are evolved bacteria and parasite like creatures. i dont think we really want to meet bacteria that another planet created. especially how harsh other planets have proven to be.

Edited by MR.Blueprint, 17 July 2012 - 12:55 AM.

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#36    DieChecker

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:59 AM

 MR.Blueprint, on 17 July 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

i also believe oxygen is unique to earth because it was somthing created on earth
You do know that when plant life and single celled organisms first came into being there was little to no Oxygen in the atmosphere? It is plants that produce oxygen as a byproduct. Life and animals don't have to have oxygen to start off. If I remember right, there were many tiny animals in the early oceans that processed all kinds of chemicals other then oxygen. It is only because plants produced oxygen in large levels that animals moved to using oxygen to produce energy from sugars.

You are right though, IMHO, that there is no "Lost Tribes" of humans out there in Space like Battlestar Galactica or like Star Trek.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#37    Arbitran

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:07 AM

 DieChecker, on 17 July 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

You do know that when plant life and single celled organisms first came into being there was little to no Oxygen in the atmosphere? It is plants that produce oxygen as a byproduct. Life and animals don't have to have oxygen to start off. If I remember right, there were many tiny animals in the early oceans that processed all kinds of chemicals other then oxygen. It is only because plants produced oxygen in large levels that animals moved to using oxygen to produce energy from sugars.

You are right though, IMHO, that there is no "Lost Tribes" of humans out there in Space like Battlestar Galactica or like Star Trek.

Um.... oxygen is one of the most common elements in the universe. The third, to be precise; after helium and hydrogen. That's why water, H2O, is so common. Helium doesn't really bond well with other elements; thus, with hydrogen and oxygen left alone together at the top of the list, water is one of the most abundant chemical compounds in nature.

Oxygen and water certainly are not exclusive to Earth.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#38    Aus Der Box Skeptisch

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:16 AM

http://www.geekosyst...xygen-in-space/

A little more on molecular oxygen in space. Next to helium and hydrogen oxygen is most prevalent. Earth is not unique especially using oxygen as an example.

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#39    Big Jim

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:46 AM

I haven't read every post here, so I apologize if I'm echoing someone else's thoughts, but I have just a couple random obsevations to add to the discussion.  Make of them what you will.
It has always seemed extremely curious and coincidental to me that the transistor was "invented" six months after the Roswell incident.  Technology in general has proceeded at a rapid pace since then.
As for life on other planets I only have to look at Earth to realize that life is everywhere.  From Antarctica to ocean floor gas vents, from desert to rain forest, from microbes to whales, life is everywhere.  Every possible niche, including many that we humans once considered impossible, has been filled with life that is perfectly adapted to it.  It is therefore my belief that life will exist wherever there is a place to exist.  The universe is full of places.  Whether they are "Earth-like" or alien beyond our comprehension there is no doubt in my mind that not just one but many life forms will call that place home.


#40    Myles

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:21 AM

 Big Jim, on 17 July 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

I haven't read every post here, so I apologize if I'm echoing someone else's thoughts, but I have just a couple random obsevations to add to the discussion.  Make of them what you will.
It has always seemed extremely curious and coincidental to me that the transistor was "invented" six months after the Roswell incident.  Technology in general has proceeded at a rapid pace since then.

Technology in general had proceeded at a rapid pace before the Roswell incident.


#41    MR.Blueprint

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:13 PM

 Arbitran, on 17 July 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Um.... oxygen is one of the most common elements in the universe. The third, to be precise; after helium and hydrogen. That's why water, H2O, is so common. Helium doesn't really bond well with other elements; thus, with hydrogen and oxygen left alone together at the top of the list, water is one of the most abundant chemical compounds in nature.

Oxygen and water certainly are not exclusive to Earth.

I DONT THINK WE HAVE FOUND OXYGEN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE YET

AND I DONT THINK WE FOUND ANY WATER EITHER NO ICE BUT WATER LIKE ITS IS ON EARTH

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#42    Arbitran

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:16 PM

 MR.Blueprint, on 17 July 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

I DONT THINK WE HAVE FOUND OXYGEN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE YET

AND I DONT THINK WE FOUND ANY WATER EITHER NO ICE BUT WATER LIKE ITS IS ON EARTH

And you are incorrect. On both points. True, Earth is alone in the solar system in having extremely large concentrations of oxygen and liquid water; but what's so remarkable about that? It's equally remarkable that Titan has lakes of fluid hydrocarbons. If there were intelligent beings on Titan, I'm sure they'd be looking for worlds with liquid methane and ethane, and presuming that's where they would find life.

http://en.wikipedia....al_liquid_water
http://en.wikipedia....ial_water_vapor

Edited by Arbitran, 17 July 2012 - 07:23 PM.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#43    MR.Blueprint

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:18 PM

 DieChecker, on 17 July 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

You do know that when plant life and single celled organisms first came into being there was little to no Oxygen in the atmosphere? It is plants that produce oxygen as a byproduct. Life and animals don't have to have oxygen to start off. If I remember right, there were many tiny animals in the early oceans that processed all kinds of chemicals other then oxygen. It is only because plants produced oxygen in large levels that animals moved to using oxygen to produce energy from sugars.

You are right though, IMHO, that there is no "Lost Tribes" of humans out there in Space like Battlestar Galactica or like Star Trek.


I KNOW WE DNT NEED OXYGEN FOR LIFE IM NOT ARGUING THAT MAYBE SIMPLE LIFE IS OUT THERE MY ARGUMENT IS THAT ITS NO  INTELLIGENT LIFE OUT THEIR "ALIENS"

WITHOUT OXYGEN I DONT THINK THAT COMPLEX LIFE WILL THRIVE
OF COURSE BY OUR DEFINITION OF LIFE IT WILL BE SOME SIMPLE ONE CELL  BARELY MOVING LIFE FORMS SOMEWHERE IN THE VAST UNIVERSE BUT LIKE I SAID THE MOST COMPLEX LIFE WE WILL EVER FIND WILL BE  WEIRD TREES

AND I ALSO BELIEVE IF WE DO FIND SOME SIMPLE ONE CELL LIFE FORMS ON OTHER PLANET THAT THEY WILL BE EXTREMELY HARMFUL AND DANGEROUS TO US... IMAGINE IF WE WOULD BREATHE OR GET INTO OUR BODIES A ONE CELL LIFE FORM FROM ANOTHER HARDER TO LIVE ON PLANET THAN EARTH ...

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#44    Arbitran

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:25 PM

 MR.Blueprint, on 17 July 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I KNOW WE DNT NEED OXYGEN FOR LIFE IM NOT ARGUING THAT MAYBE SIMPLE LIFE IS OUT THERE MY ARGUMENT IS THAT ITS NO  INTELLIGENT LIFE OUT THEIR "ALIENS"

WITHOUT OXYGEN I DONT THINK THAT COMPLEX LIFE WILL THRIVE
OF COURSE BY OUR DEFINITION OF LIFE IT WILL BE SOME SIMPLE ONE CELL  BARELY MOVING LIFE FORMS SOMEWHERE IN THE VAST UNIVERSE BUT LIKE I SAID THE MOST COMPLEX LIFE WE WILL EVER FIND WILL BE  WEIRD TREES

AND I ALSO BELIEVE IF WE DO FIND SOME SIMPLE ONE CELL LIFE FORMS ON OTHER PLANET THAT THEY WILL BE EXTREMELY HARMFUL AND DANGEROUS TO US... IMAGINE IF WE WOULD BREATHE OR GET INTO OUR BODIES A ONE CELL LIFE FORM FROM ANOTHER HARDER TO LIVE ON PLANET THAN EARTH ...

Firstly, could I ask you not to use all-capital letters? It's very hard to read what you've written without the proper casing.

Anyway, on what basis do you declare that multicellular life requires oxygen? So far you haven't argued your case, you've simply asserted it.

Edited by Arbitran, 17 July 2012 - 07:26 PM.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#45    Epic_Chaos

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:58 PM

Is ignorance bliss? Yes said the blind man. To believe that we are the only ones. Is foolish.. what gives you the privilege to dictate life? You may as well say God doesn't exist. Tonte





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