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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10861    Abramelin

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:21 AM

Menno, did you use Google Translator or something?


#10862    Otharus

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:21 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 29 March 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Attachment TAVLIK.jpg

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-T.pdf

taulik / tawalik / thawlik: maked, set.
All three 19th C. Oldfrisian dictionaries; Wiarda (1786), Hettema (1832) and Richthofen (1840) had TAULIK or TAULIC (man-made, in context of laws).

Weird that Jensma missed that.


#10863    Otharus

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:27 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 29 March 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Menno, did you use Google Translator or something?
LOL, that is, after all, one of his specialisations:

"De auteur studeerde korte tijd klassieke talen aan de Universiteit van Leiden, maar studeerde na zijn diensttijd af in de Slavische Talen, waarbij hij zich specialiseerde in computational linguistics en automatisch vertalen."

http://www.klaaskoli...erdeauteur.html

Automatic translation:

"The author briefly studied classical languages ​​at the University of Leyden, but graduated after his service on the Slavic Languages​​, where he specialized in computational linguistics and machine translation."

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#10864    Abramelin

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

View PostOtharus, on 29 March 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

All three 19th C. Oldfrisian dictionaries; Wiarda (1786), Hettema (1832) and Richthofen (1840) had TAULIK or TAULIC (man-made, in context of laws).

Weird that Jensma missed that.

Hmmm.. maybe he didn't, and noticed what I also noticed: the extra -T- at the end.

In that case TAVLIK becomes TAVLIKT and then looks a lot like TOE(ge)LICHT, a past participle.


#10865    Otharus

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

View PostKnul, on 29 March 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

One of the most important chapters is missing on your site (it only has the footnotes of that chapter):

HOOFDSTUK VI.
HALBERTSMA'S DENKBEELDEN OVER DE VERWANTSCHAP VAN HET FRIESCH EN HET ENGELSCH pag. 74.


(Halbertsma's views upon the kinship of Frisian and English)

I'm sure this chapter will contain more proof against Halbertsma's supposed involvement in the creation of the OLB.

(IMO it's obvious that no 19th C. mortal could have made it.)

Edited by Otharus, 29 March 2012 - 11:56 AM.


#10866    Abramelin

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostOtharus, on 29 March 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

One of the most important chapters is missing on your site (it only has the footnotes of that chapter):

HOOFDSTUK VI.
HALBERTSMA'S DENKBEELDEN OVER DE VERWANTSCHAP VAN HET FRIESCH EN HET ENGELSCH pag. 74.


(Halbertsma's views upon the kinship of Frisian and English)

I'm sure this chapter will contain more proof against Halbertsma's supposed involvement in the creation of the OLB.

(IMO it's obvious that no 19th C. mortal could have made it.)

I remember having quoted from a pdf/paper about exactly that. Let's see if I can find it again.

+++++++

EDIT:

Found it: Post 6230

http://www.unexplain...=184645&st=6225

I translated part of the pdf in that post, http://dare.uva.nl/document/221756

We are the remnant of a great and famous people that once occupied the North Sea coasts from the river Scheldt to the cape of Jutland. Same place, same name, the same language - though changed by the events of more than 2000 years - up to now in our possession.
The colonists who went out from us spread their language - in fact our language - through all corners of the globe.


He also says that he wants to force the linguists to acknowledge the fact that Frisian is one of the oldest branches of Germanic, and that it is the most far spread out language all over the world; actually he means the English language which he considers a direct offshoot of Frisian.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 March 2012 - 12:33 PM.


#10867    Abramelin

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

Otharus, it's on Knul's webpage (HOOFDSTUK VI, and so on), but you have to scroll a long way down.


#10868    Otharus

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 29 March 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Otharus, it's on Knul's webpage (HOOFDSTUK VI, and so on), but you have to scroll a long way down.
Now I see; every chapter is followed by its footnotes.

In the chapter-parts the pagenumbers should be added, otherwise the footnotes are worthless, because they refer to the pagenumbers.

Thanks Knul, for your efforts of adding several relevant sources to the web.

Just stop accusing me of lying when you don't agree or don't understand.

Edited by Otharus, 29 March 2012 - 02:14 PM.


#10869    The Puzzler

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:58 PM

Sorry to butt in, just wanted to add this bit of info about Homer in the Baltic to rejog the idea that Greek, Roman and many other cultures of the Mediterranean were influenced and settled by Scandinavians...

For years scholars have debated the incongruities in Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, finding the author’s descriptions at odds with the geography he purportedly describes. Inspired by Plutarch’s remark that Calypso’s island home was only five days’ sail from Britain, Felice Vinci convincingly argues that Homer’s epic tales originated not in the Mediterranean, but in northern Europe’s Baltic Sea.

Using meticulous geographical analysis, Vinci shows that many Homeric places, such as Troy and Ithaca, can be identified in the geographic landscape of the Baltic. He explains how the cool, foggy weather described by Ulysses matches that of northern climes rather than the sunny, warm Mediterranean and Aegean, and how battles lasting through the night would easily have been possible in the long days of the Baltic summer. Vinci’s meteorological analysis reveals how the “climatic optimum”--a long period of weather that resulted in a much milder northern Europe--declined and thus caused the blond seafarers of the Baltic to migrate south to warmer climates, where they rebuilt their original world in the Mediterranean. Through many generations the memory of the heroic age and the feats performed by their ancestors in their lost homeland was preserved and handed down, ultimately to be codified by Homer as the Iliad and the Odyssey.

In The Baltic Origins of Homer’s Epic Tales, Felice Vinci offers a key to open many doors, allowing us to consider from a new perspective the age-old question of the Indo-European diaspora and the origin not only of Greek civilization, but of Western civilization as a whole.

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/1594770522

Has anyone here read it?

Edited by The Puzzler, 29 March 2012 - 02:58 PM.

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#10870    Otharus

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 March 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

Vinci’s meteorological analysis reveals how the “climatic optimum”--a long period of weather that resulted in a much milder northern Europe--declined and thus caused the blond seafarers of the Baltic to migrate south to warmer climates, where they rebuilt their original world in the Mediterranean. Through many generations the memory of the heroic age and the feats performed by their ancestors in their lost homeland was preserved and handed down, ultimately to be codified by Homer as the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Has anyone here read it?
I'd love to read it.
The bits that have been posted here make a lot of sense, IMO.


#10871    Knul

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:24 PM

View PostOtharus, on 29 March 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

Now I see; every chapter is followed by its footnotes.

In the chapter-parts the pagenumbers should be added, otherwise the footnotes are worthless, because they refer to the pagenumbers.

Thanks Knul, for your efforts of adding several relevant sources to the web.

Just stop accusing me of lying when you don't agree or don't understand.

Page numbers will be added soon.


#10872    Knul

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:29 PM

View PostOtharus, on 29 March 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

All three 19th C. Oldfrisian dictionaries; Wiarda (1786), Hettema (1832) and Richthofen (1840) had TAULIK or TAULIC (man-made, in context of laws).

Weird that Jensma missed that.

Koebler: tõu-lik, afries., Adj.: nhd. gemacht, gesetzt; ne. maked, set (Adj.); Q.: W; E.: s. tõw-a, -lik (3); L.: Hh 108b, Rh 1065a; Son.: nach Hoffmann 176 ist der Ansatz eine Nebenform von thâwlik

tâw-a 1 und häufiger?, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. machen; ne. make (V.); E.: s. germ. *tawÐn, *tawÚn, sw. V., von statten gehen, gelingen; vgl. idg. *deu- (2), V., Adj., verehren, gewähren, ehrwürdig, mächtig, Pokorny 218; L.: Hh 109a

Edited by Knul, 29 March 2012 - 03:40 PM.


#10873    Knul

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

concept text. s. http://rodinbook.nl/olbjongsma.html

CHAPTER VI.

Halbertsma's ideas about the relationship of the Frisian and English.
In 1836 appeared in London by Dr. J. Bosworth a work whose full title was: The Origin of the Germanic end Scandinavian Languages, and Nations: with a sketch of Their Literature, and short chronological specimens of the Anglo-saxon, Friesic, Flemish, Dutch, the German from the Moeso -Goths, to the present time, the Icelandic, Danish, Norwegian and Swedish: tracing the progress of thesis languages, and Their connexion witb the Anglo-Saxon and the English present.
Originally intended to form part of the introduction to the Anglo-saxon Dictionary of the same writer, which was published in 1838, it became, as it in the opinion of the author to set limits exceeded, separate uitgegeven.Onder the title Ancient and Modern Friesic compared with Anglo-Saxon wrote on Halbertsma this honorable invitation of Bosworth a chapter on the Fries. The piece is made in English, a language which he, as he announced, had no education. A vague sense of the analogy between the English and his native language, Fries, led him to write. Compared with the MS., 1) shows the piece several changes, presumably because Dr. Bosworth was forced to work at all, on behalf of the many errors that Halbertsma in spelling, grammar and idiom made against the English. Although here and there shortened, the business remained unchanged. According to the end of the message for 1) in the MS. and communication of Bosworth was in two pieces of his intention to follow, the first would deal with 'the sound of Anglo-saxon Each Letter "and the second on' the practical application of the rules relative to the preceding vowels diphthongs and consonants.'' 2)
The title of the published piece covers only a portion of the content. Better is that which in the MS. songs, namely: Principles of Anglo Saxon pronunciation, Founded on the history of the language, and proportions to its kindred tongues. Undoubtedly Halbertsma this title meant for his treatise, because above a table of contents, which he in the preface of the MS. gives, as he placed shorten title Anglo Saxon pronunciation. As the title, under which the first piece appeared in the MS. all times does not occur, it is not unlikely that it is chosen by Bosworth, as more in line with that of the whole.
In the preface 2) indicates Halbertsma have realized why he was in a treatise on Anglo-Saxon pronunciation of the relationship of the Frisian and the Anglo-Saxon treats. Ln comparing kindred languages ​​with eachother, "he says," the scholar will gene rally starts trom the point where he was born. Rask Usually refers the A.-S. to the Scandinavian tongues, Especially to the Icelandic. Germans have chiefly to recoursc theTheotisc, and what is called by them Saxon. Others want to bring it back to the Dialects of Their Country, all with the aim of elucidating the Same Grammer, or Discovering the sounds in A.-S. The reason or this is evidently the intimate acquaintance Each of them has with the old and modern Dialects or his own country, and most likely the scholar would compare the A.-S. with another class or Dialects, if all the tongues of the Germanic branch axis were thoroughly known to him or his ashes Those native country. Being a native Friesian, and comparing the A.-S. chiefly with Friesic the, scarcely I Could Escape the suspicion or HAVING yielded to The Same influence as others, LF I did not explain my Reasons. This, I hope, will be sufficient is a excuse for my boarding into some details about the primitive relationship Between the Anglo-Saxons 1) and the Friesians.''
There is the treatment of the relationship between the Frisian and the Anglo-Saxon become an integral part is the whole piece, it is desirable in brief the course of Halbertsma's argument to indicate to the point where he with this treatment.
The Anglo-Saxon is a dead language. To determine the verdict, we must rely on the written letters. However, it is very difficult to determine which sounds they denote, for between visible signs and audible sounds are not related. Moreover, in general the 'sounds of letters'' in rustelopze swing. They modify, while the letters themselves remain unchanged. If language of a free people is rich in Anglo-Saxon dialects. This explains the differences (discrepancies) in the forms of the same words, on almost every page of an Anglo-Saxon writer avoided. Since he does not write according to fixed rules, but just as he speaks, his writing is the faithful reflection of his dialect. This diversity is compounded by the diphthongischen nature of the whole Anglo-Saxon vowel system, which makes it very difficult for a writer to determine what sounds the letters he will swap voorstellen.Dikwijls he related vowels in the same word, sometimes bv using a, then ae sometimes y, then eo. If one of the means in order to determine the pronunciation, this diversity, however, of great importance. Moreover, we possess two means to achieve this goal, get well, first, the comparison of the vowels and consonants of the Anglo-Saxon with a related dialect of an earlier period and, second, the same comparison with a related dialect vanishes. For the first may be the Gothic, the second for the Fries. Then follows an enumeration of the advantages which the Gothic features as the standard of comparison for the Anglo-Saxon in particular and the Germanic languages ​​in general and then goes on to Halbertsma discussion of the Fries. In the table below, I follow him on foot, omitting those parts that are not on the subject.
The Frisian literature of much of later date than the Anglo-Saxon, but the development of a language depends not always on her age. 1)
Thanks to the geographical position of the area of ​​the Frisians, their language has no other influence than that undergone by the Saxon: a homogeneous language with theirs. Strange inmengselen are only introduced by the repeated incursions of the Normans. Removals have never disturbed the natural development. Consequently, the Frisian language remained stationary so that one may assume that in the 12th century had changed less than other Germanic languages ​​in the 10th century.
Anglo-Saxon sounds really blooming now in Friesland and, more importantly, the development of some vowels has the same outcome as eight centuries ago, a convincing proof that the germ of both languages ​​should be homogeneous. Where such striking similarities after a separation of nearly fourteen centuries by the sea, with various vicissitudes, livelihoods and homes, we can conclude that about the middle of 5th century, when they still were united, the Anglo-Saxon is not than by minor dialectical differences distinguished the Fries. The differences that exist between the oldest Anglo-Saxon literature from the 8th and 9th centuries the Friesian and the 12th and 13th, caused by the changes that both languages ​​in the intervening period have undergone.
All this can be proved by careful comparison, so it is not necessary to rely on authoritative writers. Should anyone consider this desirable, then the testimony of Francis Junius ample, after thorough study of the whole Germanic language has always declared that the Friesian with the Anglo-Saxon was most closely related.
The geographical position of the Anglo-Frisians corresponds to the location of their language in the family of Germanic languages ​​1)
Around 325 BC, had Guttones or Goth Jutland as a residence. 1) why they left their brethren on the banks of the Vistula, where the headquarters of their race. After a portion had crossed to Scandinavia, attracted the great mass of the Goths southwards to the Danube.
South of the Goths lived on Jutland the Angles, whose area is in south maybe stretching the Eider. 2) Westward of this people, that almost healed the Chersonesus Cimbricus (sic) filled, were related to the Frisians, in a continuous row along the whole coast to the mouth of the Scheldt lived. In two places was broken early this row, however, by the Chauci minores Chauci majors and 3) who respectively settled between Ems and
Between Weser and Elbe and Weser, and by the Saxons, who healed the vastness country between the northern bank of the Elbe and the Angles took possession. Hence, there were two divisions Frisians: the southern section between the mouth of the Weser and the mouth of the Scheldt, and the northern portion of the western beach of Schleswig to the mouth of the Elbe. The latter, much smaller than the first, is called Frisia Minor. 1)
The adventurers who crossed into Britain, to be called Anglo-Saxons. Historians have given this name because even called themselves Angles or Saxons. After the Goths had evacuated the Chersonesus Cimbricus, their place was taken by settlers from the neighboring Angles, Jutes later. The Jutes were together with the Angles and the Frisians so much in power and outnumbered by the southern resident Saxony, they were regarded by foreigners as divisions of this people. Since the Angles in the expeditions to Britain, however, played a leading role, the historians have not identified the emigrants by the name Saxons alone, but with the Anglo-Saxons.
The question whether the Anglo-Saxons and Frisians, Jutes also accompanied on their trips, should probably be answered in the affirmative. 1)
A proof of the close relationship between Frisian and Anglo-Saxon, this is not. On the contrary, numerous similarities between the two languages ​​exist independently, and how the divorce has been more perfect, the clearer it is, that the basis of these agreements already in place must have been for the emigration.
Although Bede mentions the Frisians not in his list of tribes that inhabited Britain, but on the other hand, Procopius mentions they do and omit the Saxons. 2)
The following reasons argue for it, that many Frisians have connected to the settlers: (1) the leaders of the Anglo-Saxons wore names that are still in use in the Friesland, although somewhat modified by time and shortened. (2) the manner in which Rowen, the daughter of Hengist, King Vortigern welcomed, leaving aside whether this history by Geoffrey of Monmouth told is truthful or not, was the way in which people in Friesland each welcomed and shape of the English Wassail-cup is the same as that of the silver bowl: the Frisians at weddings where the guests brandy with raisins offer. (3) the Saxon Chronicle in AD 897, especially some Frisians, under King Alfred against the Danes fought. It would also not be surprising that the Frisians or were ignited by the universal urge to move, or by famine or raids, being forced.
Regarding the state in which the Anglo-Saxon has reached us, it is necessary to note that the common fate of all the MSS. of the Middle Ages was that they were modernized and so corrupted, as the writer on the language of the MS. understand.
It was to him the meaning of words to do and not to the language. Only the ignorance of the copyist gave some guarantee that he literally wrote about. As much as this for the Anglo-Saxon is, is proved by the famous Caedmon's Hymn of Wanley (in Cod. MSS. Episcopi Norwicensis) of year 737, comparable to the West Saxon translation of Alfred of about 875 (ed. Thorpe, Caedmon's Metrical Paraphrase in Anglo-saxon, with an English translation, notes and a verbal index, London, 1832).
When one says the same words written in different centuries, for itself, one can examine the changes that the language in the period lying between the two texts has undergone. 1)
So a precise comparison of Friesian and Anelsaksisch, which are closely related, as claiming, Halbertsma goes on, has never been tested before, mainly because the material is missed, partly because some people did not understand the importance of comparison. So here's a brief overview of the material used for this purpose.
[83]
The written part is formed by:
1. Asega the-buck, which contains the laws of the Frisians Rustringer (1212-1250);
2. the Littera Brocmannorum, the written law of the Brocmannen (1276-1340);
3. the Amesga-riucht, Code of the area of ​​the Ems (1276-1313);
4. the Keran jon Hunesgena londe, the statutes Hunsingo, revised and improved in 1252, but many of them early origin;
5. Yeld and Botha, the value of money in various parts of Friesland and the fines that were imposed (1276);
6. Old Frisian laws, edited by P. Wierdsma and P. Brantsma, in 1782, mainly applicable to the present province of Friesland;
7. Collection of charters, distributed in Story City Leeuwaarden, described by Simon Abbes Gabbema.
The spoken part in the same order from the North to the South given, consists of:
1. North Frisian: N. Outzen which has given a glossary, partly printed;
2. of the East Friesian Saterland;
3. Land-Friesian 1) in the present province of Friesland and the Schiermonnikoogsch Hindeloopersch.
From the Asega-Bok, the Littera Brocmannorum, the Amesga-riucht and Keran Hunesgena fon-londe examples, with so literally 2) possible translation into English next to it. From the Old Frisian laws a translation given in the Country Fries and English. Repeatedly, in addition
[84]
all these documents refer to the Anglo-Saxon. The comparison is thus continued by some verses of the Countess of Blessington from the Book of Beauty of 1834 translated into the Country Fries, a poem by Gysbert Japiks (Fries in approximately 1650) in English and a poem in Hindelooper an almanac for mariners in the same language.
In this way, the analogy between Frisian and English demonstrated, which shows that among 1200 English words only 50 are used which are not of Germanic origin Chen. Among the 125 words that are enclosed between brackets in the statement when the related English word in meaning with the corresponding Fries are also 50 non-Germanic origin Chen. At a total of 1325 words, there are therefore only 100 foreign.
There really English words largely of Angelsaksischen originate, close agreement between Frisian and English course agreement between Frisian and Anglo-Saxon in.
It follows that the Frisian language is absolutely indispensable for determining the pronunciation of the Anglo-Saxon, as far as now possible and that the scholars are an important source of have missed by not paying attention to the Fries.
Since about the close relationship between Frisians and English no longer any doubt, and many even go out of an Anglo-Frisian folk community, 1) whose language can be reconstructed, I can suffice with some remarks on the method, which
[85]
Halbertsma follows to prove their kinship.
In the preface he gives some clues about when he says:,, As Often history fairs in showing the full truth of my opinion about The relationship between the Angles and the Friesians, I had recourse to the languages. Hence a view of the remnants of the Friesic Both dead and Flourishing is still present here, and compared with the English and A.-S. It pleases not the muse of history to speak but late, and then in a very confused Manner. Yes, Often she deceives, and before she has come to maturity, Seldom Distinctly she tells the truth.
Language never deceives, but speaks mort distinction, though removed to a far higher antiquity. 1)
Halbertsma's arguments are not primarily derived from the agreement in language, although he also other grounds, in 't particularly geographischen historischen and nature, not neglect. Because of the uncertainty that still prevails about the old residence of the conquerors of Britain, the geographical mean little, while the historical data utterly incomplete and contradictory. Rightly thus he puts the emphasis on language in the agreement. 2) It may, however, strongly doubted whether Halbertsma is entitled under the contract only a small part of the vocabulary to decide on the close relationship that he wanted to prove. Had he focused on the analog sound development in the two languages ​​to show, he was certainly more valid grounds for its conclusion.


#10874    Abramelin

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

View PostOtharus, on 29 March 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

I'd love to read it.
The bits that have been posted here make a lot of sense, IMO.

http://www.unexplain...9

http://www.unexplain...=184645&st=3300

And this Vinci thinks Odysseus was Dutch... I am afraid he based that partly on Odysseus other name, Ulysses.

Ulysses > Vlysses > Vlissingen (= city in the province of Zeeland). Vlissingen could be written as Vlisses' hem or the home of Ulysses. This wordplay is what many before Vinci have done (de Grave, Gideon, Wilkens)

I would also love to see the reference/lierature list in his book. Just to check if the OLB is in it too.


#10875    Otharus

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

View PostKnul, on 29 March 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Page numbers will be added soon.
Thanks.