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Death of Yuri Gagarin demystified 40 years on

cosmonauts yuri gagarin alexei leonov

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#16    DeWitz

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:59 PM

Tut-pasheri and the good Col. R. above have hit upon an issue that deserves a thread of its own: National governments covering up mistakes, friendly-fire incidents and other foul-ups that, truth be told at the time, would be an embarrassment to said government(s). Most recently comes to mind the obvious mental diminution of Ronnie Reagan in his second term; confirmed in fact as Alzheimer's Disease upon his retirement. For wartime morale/propaganda/secrecy reasons, the truth of 700+ US soldiers dying off the cliffs of Dover in a 1944 rehearsal for D-Day (due to military blunders) remained veiled for decades. Other examples abound.

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#17    minera

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:15 AM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 16 June 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

If so, then you have to fill in a gap between Krushchev being pushed out in 1964 and death of Gagarin in 1968. And he was grounded for some time specificaly to avoid there being an accident. After Gagarin's death, Valentina Tereshkova was permanently grounded so she would not be lost as well. Your post reeks of lack of knowledge and repeating propaganda......
It was Khruschevs own son who told of the split between his father and Gagarin.Being in the top echelon of power and prestige Gagarin began drinking more heavily. check out his bio on http://en.m.wikipedi...ki/Yuri_Gagarin and some of other Russian websites.
I am from that part of the world and we know the difference between propaganda and fact. It is common belief among the people that there was KGB and foul play involved in his death. You know nothing about living under the communist system. Gagarin did not die on a soyuz mission.He died in a jet crash along with his flight instrutor   in a  Mig-15UTI
near the town of Kirzhatch. Teresnkova was grounded for different reasons and had nothing to do with Gagarin but more about safety issues with the space flights. Komarov died in the Sojuz1 despite Gagarin's objections of the safety issues. Further flights were cancelled due to Komarov's death. Gagarin was, is and always will be a hero.


#18    minera

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:27 AM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 16 June 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

Tut-pasheri and the good Col. R. above have hit upon an issue that deserves a thread of its own: National governments covering up mistakes, friendly-fire incidents and other foul-ups that, truth be told at the time, would be an embarrassment to said government(s). Most recently comes to mind the obvious mental diminution of Ronnie Reagan in his second term; confirmed in fact as Alzheimer's Disease upon his retirement. For wartime morale/propaganda/secrecy reasons, the truth of 700+ US soldiers dying off the cliffs of Dover in a 1944 rehearsal for D-Day (due to military blunders) remained veiled for decades. Other examples abound.
Governments care nothing about the people only coverups to save face. When it came to Gagarin his fate was sealed when he criticized the safety problems in the flights. The government and the leaders wanted fame and glory so they went ahead and sent Komarov on a death flight. Gagarin knew that but his friend refused to let him take his place and died. No one is surprised to what lenghts the communists would go to save face. Khruschev was a trickster and he showed his true self in the 1956 Hungarian revolution by sending in troops and shooting at the population. Unfortunately war time millitary blunders and friendly fire incidents still happen but governments keep a tight lid on things they don't want the public to know.


#19    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:54 AM

View Postminera, on 17 June 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

It was Khruschevs own son who told of the split between his father and Gagarin.Being in the top echelon of power and prestige Gagarin began drinking more heavily. check out his bio on http://en.m.wikipedi...ki/Yuri_Gagarin and some of other Russian websites.
I am from that part of the world and we know the difference between propaganda and fact. It is common belief among the people that there was KGB and foul play involved in his death. You know nothing about living under the communist system. Gagarin did not die on a soyuz mission.He died in a jet crash along with his flight instrutor   in a  Mig-15UTI
near the town of Kirzhatch. Teresnkova was grounded for different reasons and had nothing to do with Gagarin but more about safety issues with the space flights. Komarov died in the Sojuz1 despite Gagarin's objections of the safety issues. Further flights were cancelled due to Komarov's death. Gagarin was, is and always will be a hero.
ясно..... :rolleyes:

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 17 June 2013 - 08:11 AM.


#20    Lex540

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:46 AM

sorry dude but you died a hero


#21    minera

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:54 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 17 June 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

ясно..... :rolleyes:
I was born in 1948 in Budapest Hungary. While I forgot my Russian which was mandatory to learn I do remember my native language. We left in 1956 after Khruschev sent in his troops to quell the revolution. Since my English is not perfect it is not bad considering it is not my first language but my fourth. Besides I don't waste time correcting spelling or grammar errors of others.


#22    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:44 PM

View Postminera, on 17 June 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

I was born in 1948 in Budapest Hungary. While I forgot my Russian which was mandatory to learn I do remember my native language. We left in 1956 after Khruschev sent in his troops to quell the revolution. Since my English is not perfect it is not bad considering it is not my first language but my fourth. Besides I don't waste time correcting spelling or grammar errors of others.
Though I think your obvious reason for not liking Krushchev is not a reason to say that Gagarin was victim of KGB four years after Krushchev left office. That some people are suspiscious and make rumours does not make rumours the truth. What you in effect say is that Gagarin was murdered by the state. This is wrong and much too cynical, something from Hollywood. Tereshkova herself has always said that she was permanently grounded because of Gagarin's death. Besides, after Soyuz 1 there was only one more Soyuz accident, that of Soyuz 11, and it was not a systemic failure in the sense of burocratic interference and stupidity, but "one off" component failure. Nobody denies there were problems after Korolev died, and that Gagarin certainly knew there were problems, but he was not killed by the state.


#23    NatureBoff

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:53 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 15 June 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Death of Yuri Gagarin demystified 40 years on

All the hallmarks of a lizard-bird incident imv. The SU-15 might have been subject to a lizard-bird gaze forcing the pilot to a lower altitude and forcing Gargarin & co to have a near miss etc..

Quote

According to a declassified report, there is a human factor behind the tragic incident - an unauthorized SU-15 fighter jet was flying dangerously close to Gagarin’s aircraft.
Leonov had been in charge of parachute jump training on that day. The weather was extremely bad, with rain, wind and snow making it impossible to carry out exercises. He waited for an official confirmation that the exercises would be cancelled, but then heard a super-sonic noise followed by an explosion only a second apart from each other. That is when he knew something was up.
“We knew that a Su-15 was scheduled to be tested that day, but it was supposed to be flying at the altitude of 10,000 meters or higher, not 450-500 meters. It was a violation of the flight procedure.”
Leonov that day talked to witnesses that pointed at the model of a Su-15 saying that it appeared out of the clouds with its tail smoking and burning.
“While afterburning the aircraft reduced its echelon at a distance of 10-15 meters in the clouds, passing close to Gagarin, turning his plane and thus sending it into a tailspin – a deep spiral, to be precise – at a speed of 750 kilometers per hour,” Leonov tells.
According to the report that Seryogin wrote in his own hand, no aerobatic maneuvers or spins were to be performed by the crew of the MiG-15 with RD-45 engine and external fuel tanks, 260 liters each.  Simple turns, pitching and nosedives were conducted after which Yuri reported: “Codename 645, task completed, descending” Leonov explains.
“That was the last we heard from him. The control point recorded that he was at the altitude of 4,200 at the time. 55 seconds later the plane crashed.”


Edited by RingFenceTheCity, 17 June 2013 - 07:55 PM.

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#24    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:12 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 17 June 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Though I think your obvious reason for not liking Krushchev is not a reason to say that Gagarin was victim of KGB four years after Krushchev left office. That some people are suspiscious and make rumours does not make rumours the truth. What you in effect say is that Gagarin was murdered by the state. This is wrong and much too cynical, something from Hollywood. Tereshkova herself has always said that she was permanently grounded because of Gagarin's death. Besides, after Soyuz 1 there was only one more Soyuz accident, that of Soyuz 11, and it was not a systemic failure in the sense of burocratic interference and stupidity, but "one off" component failure. Nobody denies there were problems after Korolev died, and that Gagarin certainly knew there were problems, but he was not killed by the state.
... and what does even the U.S. rely on now to get people into space .... ?

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#25    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:14 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 17 June 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

... and what does even the U.S. rely on now to get people into space .... ?
The legacy of the genius and hero of mankind Sergei Pavlovich Korolev. His name will live on as we one day will journey out into the cosmos beyond our system. Korolev and Gagarin will live while others have become dust.
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