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MOD ignores UFO reports

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#61    karl 12

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:36 PM

View PostOccams Razor, on 25 August 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I think it makes perfect sense for the MOD not to consider UFOs as a real defense threat.


I don't know how the MOD's claim that 'unidentified' objects cause no threat if they can't even identify them but I suppose they're just banking on people unquestioningly accepting it -there's some relevant reading at the link below concerning the work of British researcher Julian J.A. Hennessey and he does a good job of pointing out some of the 'inherent shortcomings' of MOD UFO policy including claims of 'force fit' debunking and massaging the statistics of actual unknown reports.


Quote

Firstly, the Ministry does not appear to operate on an immediate capability basis.  Often, witnesses in major cases were not interviewed until weeks after making their report.  The value and validity of doing so is certainly in question.  The Ministry has stated in the House (of Commons) that it is often difficult to assess what a witness observed several days later, let alone several weeks.


Secondly, judging from my correspondence with the Ministry, it appears unable to positively identify an extremely high number of the reports made.  Yet the annual statistics never support this fact.  UFOs listed as "probable balloons" suddenly become definite balloons statistically.  Cases have even occurred where the Ministry was even unable to identify jet interceptors involved.


Thirdly, explanations given witnesses are often more puzzling to them than the nature of the UFO reported.  In many cases, the witnesses, often trained competent observers, have regarded these Ministry explanations as an insult to their intelligence and certainly would never again report any other such observation to the Ministry.  My discussions with airline pilots revealed that a majority of them would never make a report to the Ministry for fear of ridicule.  A highly unsatisfactory situation caused by the present policy.


Fourthly, once an explanation has been given, the Ministry will not, even when the evidence has been presented to the contrary, review its findings if the evidence presented does not fit in with theirs.  It has a strong tendency to ignore valid points in the statements of witnesses simply because it does not support what they think is the probable cause of the sighting.


Lastly, the Ministry only investigates the air defence implications of reports and admits that it has never carried out a study into their scientific implications.  Scientists or serious UFO researchers have no access to these unclassified reports on file.  Indeed, it is only over the recent years that such reports are permanently retained.  Previously they were destroyed after a 5-year period.


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From the above, it is clear that, in the first instance, a major public relations problem exists.  My opinion is certainly not an isolated one, a prominent scientist, who visited the then Air Ministry for a discussion of UFOs, stated to me in a tape-recorded conversation, "I am probably speaking treason here, but there seems no point to follow things up and no basic rapport between the British Air Ministry and the public...they say the public be damned!"  The same attitude has not changed six years later!  If one accepts the above as the only "true" picture, which is how the public now sees it, then the Ministry's investigation is one of gross incompetence that endangers National security.  However, my observations lead me to believe that it is not the only investigation."

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Cheers.


#62    Occams Razor

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:05 AM

View Postkarl 12, on 27 August 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

I don't know how the MOD's claim that 'unidentified' objects cause no threat if they can't even identify them but I suppose they're just banking on people unquestioningly accepting it -there's some relevant reading at the link below concerning the work of British researcher Julian J.A. Hennessey and he does a good job of pointing out some of the 'inherent shortcomings' of MOD UFO policy including claims of 'force fit' debunking and massaging the statistics of actual unknown reports.




Cheers.

The thing is these unidentified aerial phenomena, whatever they are, don't cause any problems. Until they have a tangible physical effect on man or machine the MOD won't take them seriously, to do so would cost money that could be better spent elsewhere. Interviewing witnesses is not particularly useful as witnesses can be easily confused, a UFO enthusiast might see a structured alien spacecraft, whilst a police officer might see a bright light etc etc. There are also many "Walter Mitty" types, and writers out for a quid out there to cloud the situation with fanciful stories. Until one of these things badly damages a road or building, or MOD installation, or brings down an airliner on a city, or beams a car up into it from the M1 with hundreds of witnesses and video footage of the event, no-one in the MOD will  take them seriously, why would they?

I know it's an old question but why don't these things fly low up the Thames and over London, just to let everyone see exactly what they are if indeed they are "visitors"? For all we really know all of these unidentified aerial phenomena could be some weird natural occurrence.

Edited by Occams Razor, 02 September 2012 - 02:18 AM.


#63    Occams Razor

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:26 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 21 August 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

It makes perfect sense that there was a cover up during the Cold War, and in any case we know for a fact that there was and can prove it.  We have all kinds of declassified documents to prove that--a thousand times over.

And an enemy can be hostile without resorting to a fill-fledged invasion.  It happens all the time in history, just like the Cold War itself.

I would be very interested to see some of these thousands of declassified documents that "prove" there was a UFO cover-up during the cold war. Would they be of similar quality to the General's affidavit you posted about alien bodies that didn't mention alien bodies?

The other thing that springs to mind is why on earth (no pun intended) would a government cover up any alien technology that had fallen into their possession or any kind of alien liaison they may have? Not only does this not make "perfect sense", it makes no sense at all, it's nonsense.

This would be invaluable information to give any enemy in any cold war, it would scare them to death. There's no way anyone would even consider attacking you if they thought you had friends or technology of extraterrestrial origin. A deterrent is only a deterrent if your enemy knows you have it.

Edited by Occams Razor, 02 September 2012 - 02:36 AM.


#64    Occams Razor

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:44 AM

View Postkarl 12, on 21 August 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

1963, some very thick doors indeed. :tu:

I remember retired Bluebook Chief Colonel Robert Friend once said that during his tenure there were 'classified intelligence channels for reporting UFO's that completely bypassed Bluebook' and government docs also exist which state that 'UFO reports that were a threat to national security weren't even part of the Bluebook system' (link) so maybe there's a parallel British equivalent  that's been operating somewhere for quite some time (speculative opinion of course).

Also, when it comes to the MOD I always found this quote from one of their senior officials to be quite a revealing one..  





Here's what Jacques Vallee also had to say about censorship and manipulation of UFO data when governments 'encouraged secret briefings' and 'funded classified research' whilst all the time pretending to the public the subject was nonsense - pretty interesting statement, especially from a man of his calibre.




Cheers!

The bottom line is:

If these things have hostile intent and have done since the early 60's all of us would be well and truly aware of it by now through our own personal experience of fighting them.


#65    Occams Razor

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:58 AM

View PostE. L. Wisty, on 21 August 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

And when The X-Files wasn't a big deal any more, the UFO reports from the general public dwindled to the usual trickle, and mysteriously Nick Pope didn't have a job any more. But by that time he'd come to believe it, so he wrote books instead.

Not necessarily, Mr Pope probably realized he needed to generate an income and there was money to be made on the UFO talk circuit and books about UFOs. In truth he may not think there's anything to it at all, but it does keep him in the style he has become accustomed to.


#66    Lilly

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:24 AM

View PostOccams Razor, on 02 September 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

The bottom line is:

If these things have hostile intent and have done since the early 60's all of us would be well and truly aware of it by now through our own personal experience of fighting them.

I couldn't agree more. Whatever UFOs might be there doesn't appear to be anything indicating ET invasion. Now, some will say it's some kind of covert invasion thingy...abductions and DNA experimentation. But, if this is the case it's certainly taking ET one heck of a long time (Roswell was in the late 1940s). IMO, if some UFOs are indeed ET (and I've yet to see any hard evidence of this) then they just seem to be observers of the human condition.

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#67    DONTEATUS

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:56 PM

But what if the Aliens have re-programed our brains to want lots of carb`s and sugar,tons of junk food, watch porn all night to make us weak in the mind and sprit. THen , and only then they will swoop down to earth and collect us up for there Dinner?
We dont have a chance !
Well Im turning off all the porn,stop eatting carbs,sugar`s soda pop`s  ect. I will make my body un-appeitising ! as possible I`ll fry it in the sun to a crispy well done tough as leather,then jump into a tub of vinegar with some hot peppers !
Wait stop the buss !  I would eat that in a min ! Who am I kidding ? E.T will just pass this rock up in a blink. They already know that were the wurst food in the Universe ! It says so in the Guide !
Well Im off to Look up again,you never know when one just might crash here !
RIGHT !

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#68    shaddow134

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:10 AM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 02 September 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

But what if the Aliens have re-programed our brains to want lots of carb`s and sugar,tons of junk food, watch porn all night to make us weak in the mind and sprit. THen , and only then they will swoop down to earth and collect us up for there Dinner?
We dont have a chance !
Well Im turning off all the porn,stop eatting carbs,sugar`s soda pop`s  ect. I will make my body un-appeitising ! as possible I`ll fry it in the sun to a crispy well done tough as leather,then jump into a tub of vinegar with some hot peppers !
Wait stop the buss !  I would eat that in a min ! Who am I kidding ? E.T will just pass this rock up in a blink. They already know that were the wurst food in the Universe ! It says so in the Guide !
Well Im off to Look up again,you never know when one just might crash here !
RIGHT !
Maybe they secretly own Mcdonalds and when we reach a certain weight we go through the drive through and a trap door opens and then we become burger meat.


I always thought Ronald was a bit sinister....

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#69    psyche101

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 08:48 AM

View Postkarl 12, on 27 August 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

I don't know how the MOD's claim that 'unidentified' objects cause no threat if they can't even identify them but I suppose they're just banking on people unquestioningly accepting it -there's some relevant reading at the link below concerning the work of British researcher Julian J.A. Hennessey and he does a good job of pointing out some of the 'inherent shortcomings' of MOD UFO policy including claims of 'force fit' debunking and massaging the statistics of actual unknown reports.




Cheers.

It would probably have something to do with no UFO causing any harm? I know some believe they are evil, but we are not seeing citizens vaporised on a regular basis or anything are we?
The MoD would be keeping files from us because imagine if you or I were to find out they had ET info under wraps! Why we would............. just what would we do?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#70    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:09 AM

View PostOccams Razor, on 02 September 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:


I know it's an old question but why don't these things fly low up the Thames and over London, just to let everyone see exactly what they are if indeed they are "visitors"? For all we really know all of these unidentified aerial phenomena could be some weird natural occurrence.
because they'd very likely provoke fighters to be scrambled to shoot them down. That would be very silly, and would be very counter-productive to any program of scientific research, or whatever other interests they may have.

View PostOccams Razor, on 02 September 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:


I know it's an old question but why don't these things fly low up the Thames and over London, just to let everyone see exactly what they are if indeed they are "visitors"? For all we really know all of these unidentified aerial phenomena could be some weird natural occurrence.
because they'd very likely provoke fighters to be scrambled to shoot them down. That would be very silly, and would be very counter-productive to any program of scientific research, or whatever other interests they may have.

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#71    quillius

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 01:29 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 05 September 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

It would probably have something to do with no UFO causing any harm? I know some believe they are evil, but we are not seeing citizens vaporised on a regular basis or anything are we?
The MoD would be keeping files from us because imagine if you or I were to find out they had ET info under wraps! Why we would............. just what would we do?

........we would......know how good they were at spinning and misdirection :tu:


#72    psyche101

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:01 AM

View Postquillius, on 05 September 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

........we would......know how good they were at spinning and misdirection :tu:


Good call!


And then?

Or, what if we find out they know what I suspect they know?

Edited by psyche101, 06 September 2012 - 05:02 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#73    quillius

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:28 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 06 September 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

Good call!


And then?

Or, what if we find out they know what I suspect they know?

well then we do nothing I guess :)

more interesting is that we find out they know what I suspect they know/did know....although still not sure what the next move would be


#74    shaddow134

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:19 PM

Don't see what the fuss is about really,the MOD choose to ignore something that doesn't exist and in all reality may have a more worldly explanation and therefore presents no threat to us.

Please feel free to present declassified documents that tell you nothing,dodgy Youtube videos that are faked or presented by dodgy Scientists or ex military personel.

I for one truly believe that we have never been or at this moment in time are being visited by ET's.

No evidence,no bodies, no alleged wreckage, nothing........

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#75    DONTEATUS

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:10 AM

Theres always evidence ! ITs just hidden out under Wright Patterson !

This is a Work in Progress!





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