thaphantum Posted March 27, 2007 #1 Share Posted March 27, 2007 a while back, i was having a conversation with a muslim guy... he was black... not arab... when i listen to what other people believe and why, i usually try to be respectful as long as they do the same... but on this particular occasion... he was trying to convert me and i couldn't help but laugh in his face... he said... Christians and Jews worship a giant "spook" in the sky and that the Bible is false and flawed... not even 5 minutes into his rant, he says that the Quran is a sister book to the Bible and they should both be read together... he continued to say that Muslims worship the same God as Christians... so at this point... i'm confused because he just said we worship a spook... and criticized me for believing in the God of the Bible... lol... can some muslim clear this up? who exactly do you guys worship? i know you say Allah... but who is Allah... is it the God of the Bible or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muslim Posted March 27, 2007 #2 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) lol yes they are exactly the same God. Muslims believe in all the prophets so naturally it is the same God. Muslims Jews and Christians worship the same God. Allah is an arabic word which means the God, thats all. So he is wrong that he told u Christians worship a spook because the Quran clearly states that Christians and Jews are "people of the book" i.e the book that God revealed, the Bible, Torah, Psalms etc. The only main difference is that we believe God is absolutely literally one. One who has no partners no equals and no children or any associates whatsoever. And this was why Mohammed was sent, to renew the message of pure monotheism that got lost, to say that God is one and by one it is literally one. And this was what all the prophets preached since Adam including Jesus Christ himself peace be upon him. In the name of Allah, most graciouse most mercifull: And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we surrender." (029.046) Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will). (3.64) Say ye: "We believe in Allah, And the revelation given to us, And to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, And that given to Moses and Jesus And that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: We make no difference Between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." In short maybe that guy you spoke with follows "the nation of Islam" and not the religion of Islam cause they are different. The guys of nation of Islam dont even follow the Quran they have their own beliefs and just call themselves Muslims or maybe hes a new convert and doesnt know that much about the religion but I doubt that cause the Quran makes it so clear that we all follow the same God. Btw listen to this: Purpose of life part 1 http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/attachmen...mp;d=1172586683 part 2 http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/attachmen...mp;d=1172586683 The guy givin the lecture is a black Muslim convert btw. note: race does not matter in Islam either ur black or red or pink or white an Arab or a non Arab it does not matter. All that matters is your rightousness and manners. As the Quran says: "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)" (note: We is only a plural of respect. Islam as I said believes in the Onness of God) Edited March 27, 2007 by muslim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGS3333 Posted March 27, 2007 #3 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Okay, first of all, if I were to respond in the manner that "muslim" has responded, it would be construed as "preaching" and who knows what would happen to me considering everything that has already occured. But to answer your question, I suggest reading through Matthew 24 to get an idea where Christians stand on the matter. I once had someone make similar statements to me, but it really is only a ploy used in an effort to convert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpressStarXVII Posted March 27, 2007 #4 Share Posted March 27, 2007 KGS I do not know why it bothers you so that you worship the same god as muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGS3333 Posted March 27, 2007 #5 Share Posted March 27, 2007 KGS I do not know why it bothers you so that you worship the same god as muslims. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggles Posted March 27, 2007 #6 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I don't. If you worship the Christian god then you worship the same god as the muslims. Nice post Muslim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGS3333 Posted March 27, 2007 #7 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I do nothing of the sort. Who are you to say otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggles Posted March 27, 2007 #8 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I do nothing of the sort. Who are you to say otherwise? Next you will be saying you don't have the same god as the Jewish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condescending Posted March 27, 2007 #9 Share Posted March 27, 2007 hm actually christianity worship 3 divine figures god/holy spirit/jesus if I remember correctly? where as muslims only worship allah (god). I see a huge difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brave_new_world Posted March 27, 2007 #10 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Many christians only worship the trinity as different aspects of the same God or reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggles Posted March 27, 2007 #11 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) hm actually christianity worship 3 divine figures god/holy spirit/jesus if I remember correctly? where as muslims only worship allah (god). I see a huge difference there. If that is the case why is it regarded as monotheistic religion? The Farther, son holy ghost are like BNW said 3 aspects of the same God. Both Christianity and Islam have there roots in the Jewish faith there for all 3 are the same God! Its not my fault if you and KGS3333 find that hard to swallow. Edited March 27, 2007 by Q-Ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaphantum Posted March 27, 2007 Author #12 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Many christians only worship the trinity as different aspects of the same God or reality. exactly... it seems that muslims don't understand that concept... because it is indeed a Jewish concept throughout the old testament... of the top of my head i can think of Psalms 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." then Psalms 2:12 "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." There are tons of verses in the old testament that refer to God having a son. I could actually go through and point them out all day. 90% of them can be clearly read in english. Some of the other ones can be tranlated back to Hebrew or Greek and then it becomes clear... as far as muslims worshiping the same God as Christians and Jews, i can't be too sure... i have read some of the scriptures and it just doesn't add up... from one of the stories i read... Nimrod killed or tried to kill Abraham in a fiery furnace.... i will admit that i can't remember the exact story in it's entirety... but Nimrod, Abraham, and the fiery furnace are three seperate stories that happen in three different time periods in the Hebrew and Christian Bible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpressStarXVII Posted March 27, 2007 #13 Share Posted March 27, 2007 It seems like there is a want to say that muslims and christians dont worship the same god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastmode Posted March 27, 2007 #14 Share Posted March 27, 2007 ok....figured i throw my 2 cent in. IF a muslim says that he or she worships then thats fine. They may believe that they do, their holy book says that..so they will believe. Peronally, i dont think the its right to accept parts of the bible and torah, and then say we accept some parts but then claim the main message as wrong, and then make up a different one. THe bible and torah was written by many different people over thousand of years and they all agreed with what each other had written. The koren how ever, i believe was written by one person, and then said that he was right and everyone else was wrong...afetr coping most of the bible and torah. I try and respect everyones beliefs..but i think that to copy 2 sacred books, and the change and put your own person spin on it is wrong. Also, im not attempting to bash or offend, im simply stating my opinion,,in which i could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muslim Posted March 27, 2007 #15 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) exactly... it seems that muslims don't understand that concept... because it is indeed a Jewish concept throughout the old testament... of the top of my head i can think of Psalms 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." then Psalms 2:12 "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." There are tons of verses in the old testament that refer to God having a son. I could actually go through and point them out all day. 90% of them can be clearly read in english. Some of the other ones can be tranlated back to Hebrew or Greek and then it becomes clear... Dude Pslams 2:12 was God speaking to David! What does that mean? That David peace be upon him is also part of the trinity? No, its metaphorically. The OT has TONS and TONS of children of God and sons of God, they are all however, metaphorically. How about you take into consideration the context for a change? That was David speaking saying what God told him! Ask any Jew! Also, son of God literally meant servant of God. In the language of the Jew this is what it means and this is what it meant at the time of Jesus Christ also. a) 'Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38 b ) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose. ". . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4 c) " . . Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22 d) " . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9 (e) " . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7 So, this is metaphorically because this is what it meant in that language! You see if ur reading a book written long ago and you read a sentence that says "I am very gay today", you cant laugh and think that that guy likes guys, you would take into consideration what the word meant at that time which was happy. You are reading things and not taking into consideration what they meant at that time. f) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are THE SONS OF GOD. ' ROMANS 8:14 as far as muslims worshiping the same God as Christians and Jews, i can't be too sure... i have read some of the scriptures and it just doesn't add up... from one of the stories i read... All three of us worship the same God, its just that we view Him in a different way. 3=1, or 1=1 and so on but in essence it is the same God just in a different perspective. Nimrod killed or tried to kill Abraham in a fiery furnace.... i will admit that i can't remember the exact story in it's entirety... but Nimrod, Abraham, and the fiery furnace are three seperate stories that happen in three different time periods in the Hebrew and Christian Bible... I dont know what ur talking about here. ok....figured i throw my 2 cent in. IF a muslim says that he or she worships then thats fine. They may believe that they do, their holy book says that..so they will believe. Peronally, i dont think the its right to accept parts of the bible and torah, and then say we accept some parts but then claim the main message as wrong, and then make up a different one. THe bible and torah was written by many different people over thousand of years and they all agreed with what each other had written. The koren how ever, i believe was written by one person, and then said that he was right and everyone else was wrong...afetr coping most of the bible and torah. I try and respect everyones beliefs..but i think that to copy 2 sacred books, and the change and put your own person spin on it is wrong. Also, im not attempting to bash or offend, im simply stating my opinion,,in which i could be wrong We accept all parts, its just that these revelations were never meant to be for all times and places, they were meant for a certain people for a certain time period thus they were not completely preserved. The main message is still there yes we arent saying no to that. Howevr that message wasnt meant for all humanity and for all times. If there is an old testament and a new testament there has to be a final testament where things are explained in better detail. And thats what Jesus Christ said that when the comforter comes he will expain things in detail and say unto them what will come to be. Nottice he said say he didnt say inspire, he said say, humans say, not spirits. Even in the movie the passion of the Christ, Jesus calls the comforter Ahmed, which is another name for Mohammed and this is what the Quran says that Jesus said that Ahmed will come. Here see for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k-c7HWyfPE You say that the Bible and Torah were written by diferent people over thousands of years and all agreed with what each other had written? Havent you seen the tons of differences/contradictions? Im not going to post any but you must admit there are several. Plagiarism is found in Isaiah 37 & 2 Kings 19, where we find extracts attributed to authors living 1000 of years apart to be identical to the letter. The obvious indictment would be on God that he had absentmindedly dictated the same tale twice! Im not going to get into that but no they didnt. The Quran, was a verbal revelaton, literally the words were put into Mohammeds mouth he didnt author anything he was illierate he didnt know how to read and or write. No the Quran does not have parts of the Bible or the Torah in it, it is a completely different book a completely different revelation, also, at the time of the Quran 1400 years ago there was no such thing as an Arabic Bible be it OT or NT so its physically impossible to have been copied from it. Edited March 27, 2007 by muslim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muslim Posted March 27, 2007 #16 Share Posted March 27, 2007 The word Allah in the Bible: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted March 27, 2007 #17 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Do not Muslims, Christians and Jews all worship the God of Abraham. Like it or not y'all are linked together through Abraham, just different books. I would think you all could find away to get along in your one God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muslim Posted March 27, 2007 #18 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Do not Muslims, Christians and Jews all worship the God of Abraham. Like it or not y'all are linked together through Abraham, just different books. I would think you all could find away to get along in your one God. Yes we do. Muslims dont even consider that which was peached by Moses and Jesus and Mohammed three different religions. Just one religion in different forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaphantum Posted March 28, 2007 Author #19 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Yes we do. Muslims dont even consider that which was peached by Moses and Jesus and Mohammed three different religions. Just one religion in different forms. i'm going to have to disagree because there are a lot of things in the Quran that contridict the Bible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGS3333 Posted March 28, 2007 #20 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Do not Muslims, Christians and Jews all worship the God of Abraham. Like it or not y'all are linked together through Abraham, just different books. I would think you all could find away to get along in your one God. The Bible clearly rules out the possibility that Muslims worship God as Christians do. The NT illustrates that following Christ's teachings is the one true path to eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus also warns about false prophets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muslim Posted March 28, 2007 #21 Share Posted March 28, 2007 i'm going to have to disagree because there are a lot of things in the Quran that contridict the Bible... Have you even read the Quran instead of reading some misquoted verses here and there? Sorry I mean no disrespect to you, I respect you its just that many people misquote the Quran, deliberately I may add. Other then things such as that God rested on the sixth day of the creation of the universe and the Quran saying that God does not need rest and did not rest and the Bible saying Jacoub wrestled with God, what else? Other then the Quran not speaking about sexual things, what else? All differences between the Quran and the Bible, the Quran is a better difference. Even compare Christs birth: Marry said: "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (Luke 1:34) meaning sexually. The Quranic narrative is: "She said: O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" (3:47) meaning sexually. In essence there is no difference between these two statements "seeing I know not a man" and "when no man hath touched me". Both the quotations have an identical meaning. It is simply a choice of different words meaning the same thing. But the respective replies to Mary's plea in the two Books (the Quran and the Bible) are revealing. The Biblical Version: "And the angle answered and said into her : 'The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee" (Luke 1:35) Can't you see that you are giving the atheist, the skeptic, the agnostic a stick to beat you with? They may well ask "How did the Holy Ghost come upon Mary?" "How did the Highest overshadow her?" We know that literally it does not mean that: that it was an immaculate conception, but the language used here, is distasteful. Now contrast this with the language of the Quran: The Quranic Version "He said (the angel says in reply): 'Even so: Allah (God) createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!' " (3:47) This is the Muslim concept of the birth of Jesus. For God to create a Jesus, without a human father, He merely has to will it. If He wants to create a million Jesus' without fathers or mothers, He merely wills them into existence. He does not have to take seeds and transfer them, like men or animals by contact or artificial insemination . He wills everything into being by His word of command "Be" and "It is". Between these two versions of the birth of Jesus, the Quranic version and the Biblical version, which would you prefer to give your daughter ? Is it possible for the Quran to be hollier then God's words? Impossible. The NT illustrates that following Christ's teachings is the one true path to eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus also warns about false prophets. Well think about that for a second here. Christ is a prophet right? We all agree on that including Christians. Well then since all prophets come from one source, God, shouldnt they all have the same teachings? Shouldnt Christ have the same teachings in essence of Moses? So if you follow Christ its also as if you're follow Moses, peace be upon them. So if God were to send another prophet after Christ, that prophets teachings also would be the same as Christs so following him would also be as if ur following Christ. Jesus warned about false prophets true, yet he never said no prophet would come after him. He just warned of false ones. The Jews themselves were expecting another prophet besides the Messiah that is 100%. When John the Baptist peace be upon him went to them they asked him three questions. They said art thou Elias? And he said no. They said art thou the Christ? And he said no since Jesus of course is the Christ. Than they said art thou that prophet? And he said no. Three distinct questions. Three distinct answers. Three distinct prophecies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGS3333 Posted March 28, 2007 #22 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Well think about that for a second here. Christ is a prophet right? We all agree on that including Christians. Well then since all prophets come from one source, God, shouldnt they all have the same teachings? Shouldnt Christ have the same teachings in essence of Moses? So if you follow Christ its also as if you're follow Moses, peace be upon them. So if God were to send another prophet after Christ, that prophets teachings also would be the same as Christs so following him would also be as if ur following Christ. Jesus warned about false prophets true, yet he never said no prophet would come after him. He just warned of false ones. The Jews themselves were expecting another prophet besides the Messiah that is 100%. When John the Baptist peace be upon him went to them they asked him three questions. They said art thou Elias? And he said no. They said art thou the Christ? And he said no since Jesus of course is the Christ. Than they said art thou that prophet? And he said no. Three distinct questions. Three distinct answers. Three distinct prophecies. If this is the case, then why don't you accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour? Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God, and if you recognize him as such, how can you subscribe to teachings that most Christians consider to be false prophecy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggles Posted March 28, 2007 #23 Share Posted March 28, 2007 It seems like there is a want to say that muslims and christians dont worship the same god. Yeah i get a feeling this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastmode Posted March 28, 2007 #24 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) TO Muslim Sure not go to get into the "contradictions"..we would be here forever. BUt i find it quite intersesting to people can come after the fact and say..oooppps..they were wrong and i am right..disregarding most of what they said. You can pick what you want to believe , but you cannot take others did, but your own spin on it and claim your right and they are wrong..and the claim it as you own. You say Jesus was just a teacher, well then your calling Him a liar. B/c he stated he was so much more than justa teacher. Also, even though muslim are not Jewish or Christian, you claim to no more about our faith than we do. You claim that we got it wrong and that Muslims got our religion right. I find taht hard to believe, there is no groung for you to say that. That would be liek em claim that i have new knowledge and that isalm is wrong and i have the "new knowledge" so i am no right, and you are now wrong. I have no right, just like mohammed had no right to claim the same thing about Jewish and Christian faith. Alot of what mohammad teach goes against what Jesus taught. You also called mohammed the comforter...how is teaching to kill infedels a comfort........ Anyways sorry for the rant..i now this isnt the debate forum..so ill try and tone it down. Edited March 28, 2007 by Beastmode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted March 28, 2007 #25 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Yeah i get a feeling this is the case. 100% it is going in this direction and that is why the post is posted. No other reason. For those who say that Mohammed is a false prophet, in the eyes of the Jews Jesus was (is) a false prophet. If Jesus is the personal saviour then no Jew will entere the heaven gate?????? Nonsens. I do not know of any other god other then Allah. If anyone thinks that my god is not your god then here is a question for those: How many gods are there? Do you believe in one God like Jesus, Moses and Mohammed, or do you belive that our god is different? In this case you are thinking contrary to Jesus teachings because he told us too, that there is only one God. The Bible says there is only one God, the Quran says there is only one God. Moslems say there is only one God. What do you say?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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