Animals are conscious and should be treated

[Still Waters]

Now that scientists have belatedly declared that mammals, birds and many other animals are conscious, it is time for society to act.

ARE animals conscious? This question has a long and venerable history. Charles Darwin asked it when pondering the evolution of consciousness. His ideas about evolutionary continuity - that differences between species are differences in degree rather than kind - lead to a firm conclusion that if we have something, "they" (other animals) have it too.

http://www.newscient...ed-as-such.html

[questionmark]

That is something that was known for quite a while. Yes animals should be treated with the respect they deserve and animals should have rights. But that does not take away the fact that it will be humans who will "award" these rights and not the animals who will fight for it.

That means that animals will remain in our food chain... we just have to get accustomed to the idea that we don't have to torture something before we want to eat it.

[notoverrated]

knew my dog could understand me >.> that sneaky mutt, plays stupid all day long

[Imaginarynumber1]

Pretty sure my cat is actively trying to kill me.

Pretty sure all cats are actively trying to kill all humans.

[None of the above]

Of course animals are conscious. They have the same emotions as us, the same basic motivations, they are the same as us! All of what makes us 'US' we share with our animal cousins.

We are all 'animals'. It's not anthropomorphism to recognise these similarities, it's simple common sense and basic observation.

We 'devalue' other forms of life to excuse mistreating them.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Atlantia

[None of the above]

Pretty sure my cat is actively trying to kill me.

Pretty sure all cats are actively trying to kill all humans.

For sure, haven't you seen the film:

"Honey I shrunk the Kids... and the Cat's eaten them"?

[Imaginarynumber1]

I'm in no way arguing that animals should be mistreated, but I am also in no way going to stop eating their delicious flesh.

[None of the above]

I'm in no way arguing that animals should be mistreated, but I am also in no way going to stop eating their delicious flesh.

"Animals are my friends..... and I don't eat my friends"

-George Bernard Shaw

Spend a day in a slaughterhouse then define 'mistreatment' for me.

[Hartmut]

Hi Still Waters,

If we can accept, or at least consider, that the Energy/Force, popularly knows as God, exist - as proposed by Professor Sheldrakee's 'Morphic Field' or the various 'String' 'Dark matter' etc.theories by Hawkins and others....

- than we may realise that we are not God, but certainly a part of that unknown God-Like Energy, which has manifested into THE EVERYTHING that is - in and on every level of existence.

If so, than we are all connected and in that sense there are no "aliens", or animals which are not a part of that ONE Creative Force; which in my opinion gives ALL living creatures conscious awareness - and therefore need and must be respected.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Hartmut

[Imaginarynumber1]

"Animals are my friends..... and I don't eat my friends"

-George Bernard Shaw

Spend a day in a slaughterhouse then define 'mistreatment' for me.

I've been to a slaughterhouse before. I've also prepared my own meats before. Still tasty.

[Render]

i think this is very much related:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=234619

and also the threads that have gone before that about kittens whose eyelids were sewed together as experiments.

And also a thread about cockroaches being controlled with chip implants.

And now also a new thread about worms' behaviour being controlled.

serious high scaled debates are needed again obviously.

[None of the above]

I've been to a slaughterhouse before. I've also prepared my own meats before. Still tasty.

So would you use those same 'humane' methods of killing to dispatch a beloved pet for example?

Or terminally ill relative?

Mistreatment is relative. I of course would consider the act of killing itself to be a most extreme form of 'mistreatment', but even within the sphere of the euphemism of 'humane kiling' there is a lot of 'room'.

[None of the above]

Hi Still Waters,

If we can accept, or at least consider, that the Energy/Force, popularly knows as God, exist - as proposed by Professor Sheldrakee's 'Morphic Field' or the various 'String' 'Dark matter' etc.theories by Hawkins and others....

- than we may realise that we are not God, but certainly a part of that unknown God-Like Energy, which has manifested into THE EVERYTHING that is - in and on every level of existence.

If so, than we are all connected and in that sense there are no "aliens", or animals which are not a part of that ONE Creative Force; which in my opinion gives ALL living creatures conscious awareness - and therefore need and must be respected.

Beautiful, I can only highlight in gold!

The force is strong in you.

[Imaginarynumber1]

So would you use those same 'humane' methods of killing to dispatch a beloved pet for example?

Or terminally ill relative?

Mistreatment is relative. I of course would consider the act of killing itself to be a most extreme form of 'mistreatment', but even within the sphere of the euphemism of 'humane kiling' there is a lot of 'room'.

I volunteer in a wildlife shelter. I put animals down all day. I guess I'm just desensitized to it.

[Hartmut]

Beautiful, I can only highlight in gold!

The force is strong in you.

Thank you, - Live long and prosper !

For light entertainment:

Edited September 25, 2012 by Hartmut

[FurthurBB]

i think this is very much related:

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=234619

and also the threads that have gone before that about kittens whose eyelids were sewed together as experiments.

And also a thread about cockroaches being controlled with chip implants.

And now also a new thread about worms' behaviour being controlled.

serious high scaled debates are needed again obviously.

The original studies on kittens, and even worse taking out parts of infant monkey brains, taught us so much. I know they sound horrible, but the studies benefited both human and animal care. I do not think they need to be repeated though. I think pretty much all that can be learned from those studies was learned long ago and if there is a little more to learn that the benefit would not outweigh the cruelty involved.

[Neognosis]

That means that animals will remain in our food chain... we just have to get accustomed to the idea that we don't have to torture something before we want to eat it.

agree.

They have the same emotions as us, the same basic motivations, they are the same as us!

Disagree. While I think most animals feel fear, excitement, happiness, etc. they generally don't have the same cognitive ability as human beings. Which is not to say that animals should not be treated humanely. But when I hear that there is no difference between humans and other animals, I know right off that the person making that claim is not arguing from a reasonable position.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Neognosis

[None of the above]

Disagree. While I think most animals feel fear, excitement, happiness, etc. they generally don't have the same cognitive ability as human beings. Which is not to say that animals should not be treated humanely. But when I hear that there is no difference between humans and other animals, I know right off that the person making that claim is not arguing from a reasonable position.

The same excuse has been used in the past to excuse experimentation on 'differently abled' humans.

When I read a post like that I know 'right off' that it is simply an attempt to rationalise cruelty and mistreatment while abdicating responsibility for the suffering caused.

[Grandpa Greenman]

Being killed in a slaughter house or being kill on the African plains by lions or cape hunting dogs? Which would you pick? I don't know, that is a toss up. I think the factory farms where it is there for a while are the worst. I just can't understand how keeping a sick animal alive long enough to slaughter is more cost effective than keeping a heathy animal for the same about of time.

Pretty sure my cat is actively trying to kill me.

Pretty sure all cats are actively trying to kill all humans.

As long as I keep the bowl full I think I am safe. I might wrong, though.

[Neognosis]

The same excuse has been used in the past to excuse experimentation on 'differently abled' humans.

That's an illogical response, comparing two different things that are unrelated to evoke an emotional response.

Disabled human beings are a higher life form than animals.

When I read a post like that I know 'right off' that it is simply an attempt to rationalise cruelty and mistreatment while abdicating responsibility for the suffering caused.

That conclusion is in line with the kind of logic you have been displaying in this thread. An emotional response that doesn't really pay attention to what has been written.

I will quote myself:

Which is not to say that animals should not be treated humanely.

[None of the above]

That's an illogical response, comparing two different things that are unrelated to evoke an emotional response.

Disabled human beings are a higher life form than animals.

That conclusion is in line with the kind of logic you have been displaying in this thread. An emotional response that doesn't really pay attention to what has been written.

I will quote myself:

You actually said: "While I think most animals feel fear, excitement, happiness, etc. they generally don't have the same cognitive ability as human beings"

So you DID use congitive ability as your criteria for valuing or devaluing the lives of animals. As I pointed out, that has been done before and used to devalue the 'differently abled'.

If you want to now play the 'higher lifeform' card and step away from your earlier comment then I'm prepared to let you try and spell out your posiiton. Lets see if you can make a fist of it.

[HollyDolly]

Hi Still Waters,

If we can accept, or at least consider, that the Energy/Force, popularly knows as God, exist - as proposed by Professor Sheldrakee's 'Morphic Field' or the various 'String' 'Dark matter' etc.theories by Hawkins and others....

- than we may realise that we are not God, but certainly a part of that unknown God-Like Energy, which has manifested into THE EVERYTHING that is - in and on every level of existence.

If so, than we are all connected and in that sense there are no "aliens", or animals which are not a part of that ONE Creative Force; which in my opinion gives ALL living creatures conscious awareness - and therefore need and must be respected.

Oh I agree with you.Good points.

[Imaginarynumber1]

As long as I keep the bowl full I think I am safe. I might wrong, though.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1

[None of the above]

You know that they steal the breath of babies as well?

[Imaginarynumber1]

You know that they steal the breath of babies as well?

Don't forget socks. My cat always steals mine and my girlfriends socks. Yet I always get the blame for losing them....hmmmm....