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How do we recognize an alien intelligence ?


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#31    Mr Supertypo

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:25 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 01 February 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

I don't think that I would like to be an Alien coming here, too much war, and if humans can't agree with each other how would they agree ,or be friendly with an E.T.
Or maybe they have been and gone , around 2000 yrs ago.

actually that make us interesting....

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#32    IamLegend

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:41 AM

When discovering any life form it's best to first poke it with a stick. If it tells you to stop it may be intelligent, in which case you should poke it harder, just to make sure.


#33    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:25 AM

View PostKhanDo Sensi, on 01 February 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

actually that make us interesting....
yes, imagine how boring it must be living in a perpetual state of blissful harmony.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#34    psyche101

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:19 AM

View PostRolci, on 31 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

If you consider the MILLIONS of species on this planet and the observe their astonishing diversity, and consider that this is just one planet, you will realize that an alien life-form could be like ANYTHING. If you propose that an alien life-form on a nearby exo-planet HAS TO be vastly different from ANY life on Earth, how different would you say a life-form on the other side of the galaxy would have to be? The neighbouring galaxy? A galaxy in another local group? Another supergroup? And suppose there are billions, or only "just" millions, or say just thousands of planets in the entire Universe? Just how diverse do you expect life can be? And if you find something exotic beyond your wildest imagination, you have to consider: How would you define "life" in a UNIVERSAL sense. Not life on Earth.

And as for how you would recognize an alien life-form TO Earth, I think what you're looking for is something unique. Knowing how evolution works, if an evolutionary line is not viable, a mutation being a disadvantage rather than an advantage, the longer it's around the more probable it'll be pushed off the scene by more successful, more adaptive species. If a trait is an advantage it'll be the basis for all future branches of further development from the species. So what you want is a trait that is unique to ONE species. Something like psilocybin. As ethnobotanist Terence McKenna explains:

"Psilocybin is O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine. What this means is that there is a phosphorous group substituted at the 4 position (you know, where the carbon should be) of the molecule. Now here's the headline folks: This is the ONLY 4-phosphorylated indole on this planet. On this planet! This is not how nature works folks!"

So he proposes, rightly in my opinion, that psilocybin is a good candidate, although he goes on to theorize as to its origin and purpose, which is roughly outlined here:

http://karmajello.co...bes-aliens.html

There is a logic to it I must admit, I mean you can't expect one species to monitor the entire universe.


Millions? I thought across all time it was like 50 billion body shapes. Much more than that.

The links specifically targets intelligent life though.


Most people think of an intelligent extraterrestrial as primarily human-like, a bipedal entity with two arms, two legs and a face not dissimilar to our own. The reality however is that our limited knowledge of how life can develop elsewhere in the universe may be blinding us to possible forms of intelligent life that are completely unlike anything we've ever seen before.

Yet from 50 billion, how many managed an Industrial Revolution?

One.

And then look at shapes that exist today. Convergent evolution has shown that successful shapes are utilised, take the Tassie Tiger, a Marsupial related to the Kangaroo, looks just like a Dog. Or the famous Marsupial Lion, if a body shape is useful, it will be utilised. Why would this process be restricted to this planet alone?

Edited by psyche101, 05 February 2014 - 06:20 AM.

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#35    psyche101

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:22 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 31 January 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Actually, it's the dolphins who are too intelligent to communicate with us.
They know that if they wave their flippers they get fed, humans are to dolphins like McDonalds is to us, fast food.

But it's the mice who run the place.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#36    psyche101

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:23 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 01 February 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Several of the men present at the Roswell site who actually came very close physically to the craft occupants reported a sort of mental telepathy phenomenon, as though the creature was communicating with them without speaking.

But that whole story beggars belief. Only noobs and the most credulous give it any credibility.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#37    Frank Merton

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:37 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 01 February 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

Mathematics is the universal language. If they understand math they are intelligent
I just am of extreme uncertainty about that.  Some mathematical things seem built into nature, like maybe numbers and certain ratios, but to a large extent we wedge math into our problems (like the Drake equation).  Whether, or to what extent, we discovered or invented maths seems hard to say.  I can't imagine an advanced society functioning without counting or without pi, but that I can't imagine something is weak evidence.


#38    Frank Merton

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:38 AM

View PostColonel Rhubarb, on 02 February 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

yes, imagine how boring it must be living in a perpetual state of blissful harmony.
Haven't tried it so can't be sure.


#39    psyche101

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:45 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 05 February 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

I just am of extreme uncertainty about that.  Some mathematical things seem built into nature, like maybe numbers and certain ratios, but to a large extent we wedge math into our problems (like the Drake equation).  Whether, or to what extent, we discovered or invented maths seems hard to say.  I can't imagine an advanced society functioning without counting or without pi, but that I can't imagine something is weak evidence.

I think he means basics, like 1 = 1 = 2?

Look at one star, hold one finger up - that sort of thing? It would be the start of communication?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#40    Frank Merton

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:46 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 05 February 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

I think he means basics, like 1 = 1 = 2?

Look at one star, hold one finger up - that sort of thing? It would be the start of communication?
Yes of course that's what I said.


#41    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 07:30 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 05 February 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

I think he means basics, like 1 = 1 = 2?

Look at one star, hold one finger up - that sort of thing? It would be the start of communication?
Do you mean 1 + 1? Otherwise we might really confuse the ETs if try to persuade them that 1 = 2.

?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#42    Frank Merton

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 07:34 AM

We have no idea what holding up a finger might mean, or making marks on paper, or making clicks on a machine.

Deeper than that, while I can't imagine a society that doesn't count, I don't know that we can assume just because we can't imagine something makes it out of the question.


#43    spud the mackem

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:59 PM

Dogs and other animals bare their teeth when they aren't happy and ready to attack
Humans show their teeth when are being friendly.
So if an Alien meets a man and a dog, the dog bares its teeth but so does the man.
How does the Alien know which one is the intelligent species so the Alien also bares its teeth
And then it all kicks off.

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#44    Leonardo

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:19 PM

If we assume a materialistic universe, and that seems to be the case, then the only real clue we need to look for to discern an "intelligent" aliens species, is the presence of technology. I am presuming the article in the OP uses the word "intelligent" to mean "technologically intelligent" - i.e. as we are, and maybe moreso. Of course, some very advanced technologies may be difficult to recognise as technology.

We don't really need to worry about what form the species takes, or it's behaviour outside of whether it is capable of manipulating it's environment via technology.

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#45    spacecowboy342

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:33 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 05 February 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

I just am of extreme uncertainty about that.  Some mathematical things seem built into nature, like maybe numbers and certain ratios, but to a large extent we wedge math into our problems (like the Drake equation).  Whether, or to what extent, we discovered or invented maths seems hard to say.  I can't imagine an advanced society functioning without counting or without pi, but that I can't imagine something is weak evidence.
Yeah, you make a good point, but I can't imagine it either so perhaps that weak evidence just doubled. Whether we discover or invent math is an interesting debate. I think we discover universal principles and invent the mechanics of using them





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