Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Athiesm as an escape from reality?


  • Please log in to reply
129 replies to this topic

#61    Timonthy

Timonthy

    Placid

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,779 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Aust.

Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:58 AM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I think both atheism and theism are irrational, since neither can be proven, though I also believe that it is not irrational to believe either way.  Science and logic and rational thought have limits I believe and anyone who says differently will have to get rid of many beliefs....since what gives our lives meaning has more to do with metaphycial beliefs.

doug
What is more irrational:
Trying to prove something that there is no evidence for? And believing it anyway?
Or not believing in something because there is no evidence to support it whatsoever?

I'll rephrase: Is it more irrational to believe in something there is no evidence for, or to not believe in something there is no evidence for?

Edited by Timonthy, 03 October 2012 - 04:04 AM.

Posted Image


#62    Habitat

Habitat

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,387 posts
  • Joined:07 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:09 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 03 October 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

What is more irrational:
Trying to prove something that there is no evidence for? And believing it anyway?
Or not believing in something because there is no evidence to support it whatsoever?
The assumption that this "something" must be accessible to "rational" enquiry or be deemed non-existent, is simply a matter of the limitations of science, and has no bearing on whether the "something" is real. The modern mindset would have you believe science is the be-all and end-all of knowledge acquisition, that is an assumption no less pernicious than that of "gospel truth".


#63    The Silver Thong

The Silver Thong

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 30,219 posts
  • Joined:02 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary Alberta Canada

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:28 AM

View PostHabitat, on 03 October 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

Atheism is an escape from reality, but not a very successful one for the usual supects around here, who seem compelled to argue the point interminably. Why would you bother ? To save the world from superstition ? I can think of more pressing problems in the world. But, hey, if it makes you feel better......we all have our nagging doubts to contend with.


Look around the world and the answer is yes.

Edited by The Silver Thong, 03 October 2012 - 04:28 AM.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#64    Cybele

Cybele

    Married to the Void

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined:26 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Female

  • Prick your finger it is done
    The moon has now eclipsed the sun
    The angel has spread its wings
    The time has come for bitter things

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:48 AM

The very title of this thread implies that you think you know what reality is; describing a belief system as "escapist" reveals a decidely un-agnostic stance.

When it comes right down to it, atheism, theism, and agnosticism are all subjective beliefs (the last being a belief in something being unknowable) regarding a very subjective topic. One is not inherently better than another.

Edited by Cybele, 03 October 2012 - 05:12 AM.

My sig: "Cryptorchid", Marilyn Manson

#65    seishin

seishin

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 179 posts
  • Joined:20 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois

  • The irrationality of a thing is no argument against its existence, rather a condition of it.
    -Friedrich Nietzsche

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:49 AM

View PostHabitat, on 03 October 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

The assumption that this "something" must be accessible to "rational" enquiry or be deemed non-existent, is simply a matter of the limitations of science, and has no bearing on whether the "something" is real. The modern mindset would have you believe science is the be-all and end-all of knowledge acquisition, that is an assumption no less pernicious than that of "gospel truth".

The irrationality of a thing is no argument against its existence, rather a condition of it.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Crush the industry, No security
Capital is worthless now
Your life I inside trade

#66    Hasina

Hasina

    Maximillion Hotpocket Puckershuttle

  • Member
  • 3,048 posts
  • Joined:28 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Female

  • JINKIES

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:54 AM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

The below, what you said was just you telling me and those who believe how superior you are and strong and yes how you face reality while believers don't....in other words you believe that theist are crazy or worse.  I am not a believer but I do have a an understanding of faith that you seem to be missing.....I would suggest that you tear down your straw man and start to look at things a bit more objectively.  You atheist are just as much a problem as fundie believers.  Even you last sentence is condescending.  I don't expect you to see it, atheist after all have no soul to look into.
Well now, that was just harsh and mean spirited. Quite uncalled for.

This is one problem that I have with a few agnostics, and anyone else really when they think they 'see both sides', if you don't really have a stance on an issue, how can you have an understanding of either end? If you claim agnosticism, then claim atheists don't understand theists, and vice versa, what makes agnostics so special that they understand both sides? Or in this case, you so special?

Posted Image

~MEH~


#67    Imaginarynumber1

Imaginarynumber1

    I am not an irrational number

  • Member
  • 4,818 posts
  • Joined:22 Mar 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:32 AM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

You may be an exception, there are not many of you who carry that label.

I just think you are generalizing. In my experience, atheists are more like myself than the vocal few you see all over the internet. Same with religious people. The extreme crazy ones do not define all of them.


Edit: Also, you comments about souls is very un agnostic. Wouldn't an agnostic be unsure of the existence of such things? I've seen some of your other threads and you had a definite bias toward theism. I don't think you're very agnostic at all. You clearly has some ax to grind with atheists.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 03 October 2012 - 05:38 AM.

"A cat has nine lives. For three he plays, for three he strays, and for the last three he stays."


July 17th, 2008 (Full moon the next night)

RAPTORS! http://www.unexplain...pic=233151&st=0


#68    Timonthy

Timonthy

    Placid

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,779 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Aust.

Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:37 AM

View PostHabitat, on 03 October 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:


The assumption that this "something" must be accessible to "rational" enquiry or be deemed non-existent, is simply a matter of the limitations of science, and has no bearing on whether the "something" is real. The modern mindset would have you believe science is the be-all and end-all of knowledge acquisition, that is an assumption no less pernicious than that of "gospel truth".
Can't you answer plainly?

There could be a giant purple giraffe behind you. Do you think there is or not? Giving that there is no evidence of it being there?

Posted Image


#69    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,164 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The sixth circle

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:42 AM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Atheist live for themselves, their life, their loved ones, all else is unimportant, there is no big picture, we live, find some happiness and then die.....easy and simple.
As does everyone else.


#70    Habitat

Habitat

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,387 posts
  • Joined:07 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:44 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 03 October 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:


Can't you answer plainly?

There could be a giant purple giraffe behind you. Do you think there is or not? Giving that there is no evidence of it being there?
Nothing clever about that argument, that proposition is accessible to rational enquiry. Try again.


#71    Arbenol

Arbenol

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,880 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:55 AM

View PostHabitat, on 03 October 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Nothing clever about that argument, that proposition is accessible to rational enquiry. Try again.

Are you saying god is only accessible to irrational enquiry?


#72    Habitat

Habitat

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,387 posts
  • Joined:07 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:04 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 03 October 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:



Are you saying god is only accessible to irrational enquiry?
Not accessible by any kind of "enquiry", only by grace.


#73    Arbenol

Arbenol

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,880 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:33 AM

View PostHabitat, on 03 October 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Not accessible by any kind of "enquiry", only by grace.

What do you mean, 'by grace'? Could you be more specific?


#74    Habitat

Habitat

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,387 posts
  • Joined:07 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:47 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 03 October 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:



What do you mean, 'by grace'? Could you be more specific?
Good question. It can be interpreted many ways, but it implies to some degree at least, a fortuitous concurrence of circumstances that readies, or predisposes you to be receptive to the divinity. I suppose it is a bit like luck, you can make your own luck to some extent, but beyond that is a large measure of happenstance, whether that is random or guided by an unseen hand we cannot tell.


#75    Emma_Acid

Emma_Acid

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,554 posts
  • Joined:29 Jan 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

  • Godspeed MID

Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

Actually for believers there is proof and a lot of books out there that make a good case of it.

By this standard, CS Lewis had proof of talking lions.

There is no such thing as different types of proof. Using the scientific method, we can explain the universe pretty well as it is. A lot of the stuff we know know the answer for yet (the origin of life for example), is not an excuse to start envoking any god. And as for subjective experience (ghosts, new age energy etc), there is nothing to explain.

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

Proof, no, but it shows that there are good rational reason for believing in a deity.

How can it not be proof but still be a rational reason for believing??

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users