161 replies to this topic

[Karlis]

The latest report from the Deutsche Bank, the country’s leading private bank

It says: “We believe there are nearly zero real options available to global policy-makers. The world needs growth and is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to get it.” It forecasts bluntly that the value of the dollar will plummet in the first half of 2013 to less than a 2,000th of an ounce of gold. It reckons “the growth in supply of fiat currencies such as the USD will remain an important driver.”

That’s just for openers. The report then goes on to assert that gold is misunderstood and doesn’t really belong in the basket of “commodities” used by so many economists. Gold is money, according to the Deutsche Bank. Says it: “We would go further however, and argue that gold could be characterised as ‘good’ money as opposed to ‘bad’ money which would be represented by many of today’s fiat currencies.”
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[questionmark]

First, the Deutsche Bank is a private company, therefore hardly a policy maker. Second Germany has only a small voice in what the trend for the currency will be as they are member of the Euro meaning that the ECB makes the monetary policy and third but not last, this is another piece of disinformation thrown around by the gold hamsters who need some gullible to buy their overvalued stash.

Nobody who has any idea of the economy is going to go back to the gold standard because the amount of people on this planet and the issuing economy has outgrown all gold on this planet.

Edited by questionmark, 25 September 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[keithisco]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

First, the Deutsche Bank is a private company, therefore hardly a policy maker. Second Germany has only a small voice in what the trend for the currency will be as they are member of the Euro meaning that the ECB makes the monetary policy and third but not last, this is another piece of disinformation thrown around by the gold hamsters who need some gullible to buy their overvalued stash.

Nobody who has any idea of the economy is going to go back to the gold standard because the amount of people on this planet and the issuing economy has outgrown all gold on this planet.

You get the cigar for pointing out that there is not enough gold in the world to back any Fiat currency (approx 10 trillion dollars worth has been produced up to 2009 - since the beginning of time!!)

Neither do I really get the idea that Gold has intrinsic value - it has no calorific, nutrient, or protein value. I might be able to swap a goat for an ounce but then I have no goat and no food. In this case "Intrinsic value" is a misnomer because it is based on a "perceived" value in a developed market. In the event that gold loses all market value then a goat is still a goat and will feed a family. A devalued and worthless Kruggerand wont... IMO

[Corp]

Yes gold was money. So was silver, copper, and for a time in Holland tulips. However when gold was money its value was still debateable and largely set by government policy, namely on how much coins weighed and what purity level they were. The government issuing the gold also had to be stable in order for the coinage to be accepted at face value. So gold could be just as unstable as paper money.

Plus these are bankers. Aren't they all evil monsters?

[questionmark]

keithisco, on 25 September 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

You get the cigar for pointing out that there is not enough gold in the world to back any Fiat currency (approx 10 trillion dollars worth has been produced up to 2009 - since the beginning of time!!)

Neither do I really get the idea that Gold has intrinsic value - it has no calorific, nutrient, or protein value. I might be able to swap a goat for an ounce but then I have no goat and no food. In this case "Intrinsic value" is a misnomer because it is based on a "perceived" value in a developed market. In the event that gold loses all market value then a goat is still a goat and will feed a family. A devalued and worthless Kruggerand wont... IMO

It is extremely risible what people attribute a value to. What is worse, they don't want to speculate with gold, they want to keep it in case the system crashes. Where my question is: So you are going to go with your Kruger Rand that you have bought for $1600 to buy a hamburger? Speaking of inflation! I could probably get more by chopping wood for the hamburger joint.

[Little Fish]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

It is extremely risible what people attribute a value to. What is worse, they don't want to speculate with gold, they want to keep it in case the system crashes. Where my question is: So you are going to go with your Kruger Rand that you have bought for $1600 to buy a hamburger? Speaking of inflation! I could probably get more by chopping wood for the hamburger joint.

do you think the gold price doesn't move with inflation?
all things being equal, if inflation pushes a hamburger up to $1600, an ounce of gold will still buy you 1600 hamburgers, which means the price of gold will be  $2.5 million an ounce.

do you care to guess at the price of gold in the first week of january 2013?
my guess is $2000-2100
currently it is $1760

[questionmark]

Little Fish, on 25 September 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

do you think the gold price doesn't move with inflation?
all things being equal, if inflation pushes a hamburger up to $1600, an ounce of gold will still buy you 1600 hamburgers, which means the price of gold will be  $2.5 million an ounce.

do you care to guess at the price of gold in the first week of january 2013?
my guess is $2000-2100
currently it is $1760

And could you tell me what the guy at the hamburger joint would give you as change?

Besides, gold has hardly moved with the inflation, in fact in most of the bullion buying countries the market is crashing because it is priced out of the market. To keep up the existing prices the gold hamsters have to come up with over a trillion a year to buy the excess bullion. I doubt they can keep that up for long, no matter how many idiots they convince to sink their savings in gold. After that gold will return to its defacto value: about $500 an ounce with the monetary value adjusted to 2009.

[ninjadude]

You guys keep whining about the price of gold as if it has some connection with the value of a dollar. It doesn't.  If you want to gamble on gold futures, that's your business (and loss).

[Taun]

The only TRUE value of gold is the value it has AS A COMMODITY - for electronics, medical uses, jewelry, etc... To claim it is actually "Money" is over looking it's real value...

[Yamato]

I read an article this morning about the "Chancellor of Europe", "The Godmother of Europe", "The most powerful woman in the world", "Plan M for Macht (German word for Power), and I can't remember what the other comments were but she's not exactly advocating a gold standard when she's the Rescuer in Chief of a hopeless centralized disaster the Eurozone.

Gold is the gold standard of money and has been for thousands of years.   Fiat paper that's a few hundred years old that has no historical precedent of survival isn't money by comparison.

ninjadude, on 25 September 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

You guys keep whining about the price of gold as if it has some connection with the value of a dollar. It doesn't.  If you want to gamble on gold futures, that's your business (and loss).

It does have a connection, it's inversely correlated.  Go argue with the chart.

[questionmark]

ninjadude, on 25 September 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

You guys keep whining about the price of gold as if it has some connection with the value of a dollar. It doesn't.  If you want to gamble on gold futures, that's your business (and loss).

Well, those getting bitten by the dogs this time will be considerably poorer when the bubble bursts. Those who started the bubble  and those who got out in time considerably richer.

[questionmark]

Yamato, on 25 September 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

I read an article this morning about the "Chancellor of Europe", "The Godmother of Europe", "The most powerful woman in the world", "Plan M for Macht (German word for Power), and I can't remember what the other comments were but she's not exactly advocating a gold standard when she's the Rescuer in Chief of a hopeless centralized disaster the Eurozone.

Gold is the gold standard of money and has been for thousands of years.   Fiat paper that's a few hundred years old that has no historical precedent of survival isn't money by comparison.


It does have a connection, it's inversely correlated.  Go argue with the chart.

So have caori snail houses, cattle and gigantic stone wheels been. Doubt anybody will go bunkers over them

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

So have caori snail houses, cattle and gigantic stone wheels been. Doubt anybody will go bunkers over them

After the Continental wasn't "worth a Continental" what the fiat garbage was no longer based on became money again by default.  And that's the point.  If you don't have a basis for your currency you're destined for disaster eventually.   In case you haven't been paying attention, every American on a fixed income has been getting robbed by zero percent yields that can't match the rate of inflation and it's all the greedy self-entitled money printers thinking that some giant government is going to save your champagne taste that's causing it.

[Little Fish]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

And could you tell me what the guy at the hamburger joint would give you as change?

assuming gold price of $2.5 million/ounce, you would sell your 1/1600 ounce of gold and give him $1600 dollars for the hamburger.

Quote

Besides, gold has hardly moved with the inflation, in fact in most of the bullion buying countries the market is crashing because it is priced out of the market.  To keep up the existing prices the gold hamsters have to come up with over a trillion a year to buy the excess bullion.

you are talking about the gold consumable market such as india, not the central banks and investable hot money. less than 1% of investable hot money is currently invested in gold - that is not a bubble. I suspect china and russia are currently quietly exchanging their dollar reserves into gold given QE is now permanent at $500 billion / year and likely to increase geometrically.

Quote

I doubt they can keep that up for long, no matter how many idiots they convince to sink their savings in gold. After that gold will return to its defacto value: about $500 an ounce with the monetary value adjusted to 2009.

give us your guess for gold in the first week of jan 2013. just a guess.

[questionmark]

Little Fish, on 25 September 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

assuming gold price of $2.5 million/ounce, you would sell your 1/1600 ounce of gold and give him $1600 dollars for the hamburger.

you are talking about the gold consumable market such as india, not the central banks and investable hot money. less than 1% of investable hot money is currently invested in gold - that is not a bubble. I suspect china and russia are currently quietly exchanging their dollar reserves into gold given QE is now permanent at $500 billion / year and likely to increase geometrically.

give us your guess for gold in the first week of jan 2013. just a guess.

Yep, and how exactly is the guy in the hamburger joint going to measure your 1/1600 of an ounce? On his kitchen scale?

I can tell you how that will be: Like in Europe after WWII when people traded a Persian rug for a sack of potatoes, later for a pound of potatoes after the farmer already had a Persian rug in his pigsty and a Monet hanging in the horse stable besides having his dog eating out of sterling silver.

You gold coin has no more value than what somebody will want to give you for it. And if the guy at the hamburger joint waits long enough you will give him two Krugers for a hamburger.

The only thing that has value once the monetary system crashes is what you can produce not what you wasted your money on before the crash.