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Tantalising Testimony


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#4261    zoser

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

View Post747400, on 16 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

That is interesting, I must admit. One of the comments claims to argue that it's actually New Zealand, and it was ripped off, but I couldn't possibly say. And wherever it came from, does that mean that it was Faked? if not, what might it be? If it actually is real, then the simple shouts of "Plane, retard" (as another of the comments says) wouldn't seem very likely. Why does it stay in the same spot for so long? It is interesting.

I agree it's fascinating.  I think that the plane's appearance is very interesting and if nothing it shows that the unknown object and the plane are not one and the same.  The plane is clearly flying in a different direction and it's lights are very dim by comparison,

The original object could not have made such a dramatic change in direction.  I'm struck by the similarity with the other sightings too.

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#4262    booNyzarC

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:58 PM

Just looked like a plane making a banking maneuver to me, after which the lights would obviously look different because they aren't shining in the same direction...


#4263    1963

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:32 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 16 November 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Just looked like a plane making a banking maneuver to me, after which the lights would obviously look different because they aren't shining in the same direction...

At the risk of being labelled a "Sceptic" again....this is a video that we discussed on another forum , and agreed with your assessment Boony! :tu: ...erm...!..hope Zoser doesn't see this! :unsure2:

Cheers buddy.

Edited by 1963, 17 November 2012 - 12:32 AM.

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#4264    synchronomy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:52 AM

View Postzoser, on 16 November 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Not related to the above sightings, but perhaps the most intriguing footage I have ever seen; so much so that one wonders if it may be a hoax.  Not sure what to think. No reference as to time or place.

4:34 on the following clip:


Best UFO Sightings November 2012 (Compilation)
That just looks like the video was taken through a window and it's a reflection on the glass.  Don't give much attention to these "Best UFO Sightings" videos...there's a new one every month.  Most of them are easily explained such as the one at 3:40 of this video.

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This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#4265    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:06 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 16 November 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Just looked like a plane making a banking maneuver to me, after which the lights would obviously look different because they aren't shining in the same direction...
i agree that the winking lights at either extremity might suggest that, but Can you explain why it seems to stay in the same place for a very long time?

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#4266    zoser

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:18 PM

View Post1963, on 17 November 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

At the risk of being labelled a "Sceptic" again....this is a video that we discussed on another forum , and agreed with your assessment Boony! :tu: ...erm...!..hope Zoser doesn't see this! :unsure2:

Cheers buddy.

Doesn't mean that the assessment is correct does it?

Impossible for an airliner to bank as quickly as that.  A fighter jet would struggle to make that kind of manoeuvre.  

Also no one has addressed the issue of the row of lights.  Where does one find an array like that on an airliner.

Finally the point from Mr Omsk; why did it remain in one position for so long with no apparent diminishment of intensity?

Finally Finally; there is the similarity between this and the other sightings (Fraserburgh, Denbigh, Yuma etc).  

I suggest you take these points back to 'the other forum' and start over.

Edited by zoser, 17 November 2012 - 01:22 PM.

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#4267    zoser

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:20 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 17 November 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

That just looks like the video was taken through a window and it's a reflection on the glass.  Don't give much attention to these "Best UFO Sightings" videos...there's a new one every month.  Most of them are easily explained such as the one at 3:40 of this video.

I'm really not with you there Synch.  I cannot see how this could be a reflection.  It's either something unexplainable or an outright hoax (cgi).  My suggestion would be the latter.

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#4268    zoser

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:42 PM

I just found this:

A standard rate turn is defined to be three degrees per second. This is what ATC expects when you’re on an instrument clearance. It is also called a two-minute turn, because at that rate it takes two minutes to make a complete 360 turn.

http://www.av8n.com/...m/maneuver.html

I looked at the footage again and timed the transition (if indeed it was a transition) and at the very maximum arrived at 15 seconds.  More likely 10-12.   According to the above guideline it should take around 30 seconds.

As I thought an air liner cannot do this (we all knew that really didn't we chaps?)

Plus one minute the object is invisible, the next we have an airliner where we see it's total profile.  The transition is not actually visible.

No my hypothesis is that what ever it was more likely it disappeared seeing that the airliner was approaching.

Edited by zoser, 17 November 2012 - 01:46 PM.

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#4269    booNyzarC

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:31 PM

View Post747400, on 17 November 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

i agree that the winking lights at either extremity might suggest that, but Can you explain why it seems to stay in the same place for a very long time?

I'd have to watch the footage again to get the precise frame of reference you're mentioning here, but from a general standpoint of perspective it is pretty easy to explain.  When an aircraft is flying directly toward you or directly away from you, it can appear as though it is hovering in place simply because you don't see any, or perhaps very little, lateral motion.  This optical illusion is accentuated when an aircraft is very far away and all you can see are it's running and/or landing lights.


#4270    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 November 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

I'd have to watch the footage again to get the precise frame of reference you're mentioning here, but from a general standpoint of perspective it is pretty easy to explain.  When an aircraft is flying directly toward you or directly away from you, it can appear as though it is hovering in place simply because you don't see any, or perhaps very little, lateral motion.  This optical illusion is accentuated when an aircraft is very far away and all you can see are it's running and/or landing lights.
I know that, but if anything in the viedo is to be believed, it seems to stay in one spot for much longer than that without seeming to move at all. And while the lights, at a distance, might be landing lights, it is true, in the blow-up (if that is the actual thing), they seem to look less like landing lights, don't they?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#4271    booNyzarC

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

View Post747400, on 17 November 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

I know that, but if anything in the viedo is to be believed, it seems to stay in one spot for much longer than that without seeming to move at all. And while the lights, at a distance, might be landing lights, it is true, in the blow-up (if that is the actual thing), they seem to look less like landing lights, don't they?

I just watched it again and honestly I don't think there is any point where it stays in one spot.  As for the lights in the blow-up, they are all blurry and out of focus, but they do look like how I would expect aircraft lights to appear under those conditions, and as the footage continues you can see the blinking lights which would be on the wing tips.  Seems to be very obvious to me that this is just an airplane.


#4272    booNyzarC

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

View Postzoser, on 17 November 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I just found this:

A standard rate turn is defined to be three degrees per second. This is what ATC expects when you’re on an instrument clearance. It is also called a two-minute turn, because at that rate it takes two minutes to make a complete 360 turn.

http://www.av8n.com/...m/maneuver.html

I looked at the footage again and timed the transition (if indeed it was a transition) and at the very maximum arrived at 15 seconds.  More likely 10-12.   According to the above guideline it should take around 30 seconds.

As I thought an air liner cannot do this (we all knew that really didn't we chaps?)

Plus one minute the object is invisible, the next we have an airliner where we see it's total profile.  The transition is not actually visible.

No my hypothesis is that what ever it was more likely it disappeared seeing that the airliner was approaching.

First of all, we don't know the make and model of this aircraft and capable turn rates can vary widely.

Secondly, just because a standard rate of turn is defined, it does not mean that an aircraft is incapable of turning at a faster rate.  Perhaps one of our resident pilots will pipe in with more detail, though I wouldn't be surprised if they would find the exercise a waste of time.

Thirdly, I doubt if your timing is even accurate, as it begins to bank between 2:20 and 2:25 in the video (noted by the beginning of the tilt), at 2:38 the video looks down, and when at about 2:49 he re-acquires it, the full turn hasn't even been completed yet.  It isn't until about 3:10 that we can clearly see that it is about perpendicular to the camera POV.  Even if we shave off both ends and say the maneuver starts at about 2:30 and finishes at about 3:00, we're well within the range of your link.


#4273    zoser

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 November 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

First of all, we don't know the make and model of this aircraft and capable turn rates can vary widely.


It's an airliner!  It's bound not to be one of the fastest at making a right angled turn.

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 November 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:


Secondly, just because a standard rate of turn is defined, it does not mean that an aircraft is incapable of turning at a faster rate.  Perhaps one of our resident pilots will pipe in with more detail, though I wouldn't be surprised if they would find the exercise a waste of time.


You still haven't answered the other points in my last post.  I'm not saying you have to, but at least to acknowledge them as good points would be appreciated.

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 November 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:


Thirdly, I doubt if your timing is even accurate, as it begins to bank between 2:20 and 2:25 in the video (noted by the beginning of the tilt), at 2:38 the video looks down, and when at about 2:49 he re-acquires it, the full turn hasn't even been completed yet.  It isn't until about 3:10 that we can clearly see that it is about perpendicular to the camera POV.  Even if we shave off both ends and say the maneuver starts at about 2:30 and finishes at about 3:00, we're well within the range of your link.

No.  It begins it's banking at 2:38.  At 2:50 we clearly see the full profile of the airliner.  It is already travelling in that plane (horizontal to the viewer).  I totally disagree with your interpretation of the clip.

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#4274    zoser

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 November 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

First of all, we don't know the make and model of this aircraft and capable turn rates can vary widely.

Secondly, just because a standard rate of turn is defined, it does not mean that an aircraft is incapable of turning at a faster rate.  Perhaps one of our resident pilots will pipe in with more detail, though I wouldn't be surprised if they would find the exercise a waste of time.

Thirdly, I doubt if your timing is even accurate, as it begins to bank between 2:20 and 2:25 in the video (noted by the beginning of the tilt), at 2:38 the video looks down, and when at about 2:49 he re-acquires it, the full turn hasn't even been completed yet.  It isn't until about 3:10 that we can clearly see that it is about perpendicular to the camera POV.  Even if we shave off both ends and say the maneuver starts at about 2:30 and finishes at about 3:00, we're well within the range of your link.

Just to make the biggest criticism of all with the airliner banking hypothesis; what are the bright lights?  Are they supposed to be the jet engines exhaust flames or something?  Is that normal?  When we see the airliner in full profile we only see tiny flashing lights.  Where did the lights go?

Edited by zoser, 17 November 2012 - 05:49 PM.

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#4275    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:58 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 November 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

I'd have to watch the footage again to get the precise frame of reference you're mentioning here, but from a general standpoint of perspective it is pretty easy to explain.  When an aircraft is flying directly toward you or directly away from you, it can appear as though it is hovering in place simply because you don't see any, or perhaps very little, lateral motion.  This optical illusion is accentuated when an aircraft is very far away and all you can see are it's running and/or landing lights.

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 November 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

I just watched it again and honestly I don't think there is any point where it stays in one spot.  As for the lights in the blow-up, they are all blurry and out of focus, but they do look like how I would expect aircraft lights to appear under those conditions, and as the footage continues you can see the blinking lights which would be on the wing tips.  Seems to be very obvious to me that this is just an airplane.
There's a very clear difference to the airliner that goes past later on, though. That's easily identifiable, and the Object really doesn't look as if it's moving at all. I really don't think, if it is real, that Plane or Aircraft is an adequate explanation.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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