37 replies to this topic

[glorybebe]

Imaginarynumber1, on 13 October 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

It's a bit ironic, how everybody suddenly cares and the outpouring of support after she kills herself.

Yes,  very true.  I had a talk with my teenage daughter and asked her what she would do if she was in a drastic situation with bullying.  She said she would tell me.  That is the right answer, but for some kids, it isn't.  I was bullied and when I told my parents, they said 'let it lie.' or 'just stay out of their way'.  They didn't want to be bothered with it and have confrontations with the school and/or the other parents.  When my girl was bullied in primary school, there were two girls who stepped all over the other kids.  The school didn't do anything, so I talked to the parents.  One dad was 'oh, really? we will be having a chat when I get home'.   She never had a problem with that girl again.  The other kid, her mom was like 'oh, not my girl, she wouldn't do that'.  SURE she wouldn't.  She was the most hated girl in the school.  Parents, your children are not all little angels.  I told my daughter if I ever caught her bullying someone, she would be punished.  But, because she has been there, she stands up for the bullied child.  Maybe some parents out there need to be parents.  Interact with your child, KNOW your child.  Maybe if we started at home, there would be a lot less bullying in school.

[Imaginarynumber1]

glorybebe, on 13 October 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Yes,  very true.  I had a talk with my teenage daughter and asked her what she would do if she was in a drastic situation with bullying.  She said she would tell me.  That is the right answer, but for some kids, it isn't.  I was bullied and when I told my parents, they said 'let it lie.' or 'just stay out of their way'.  They didn't want to be bothered with it and have confrontations with the school and/or the other parents.  When my girl was bullied in primary school, there were two girls who stepped all over the other kids.  The school didn't do anything, so I talked to the parents.  One dad was 'oh, really? we will be having a chat when I get home'.   She never had a problem with that girl again.  The other kid, her mom was like 'oh, not my girl, she wouldn't do that'.  SURE she wouldn't.  She was the most hated girl in the school.  Parents, your children are not all little angels.  I told my daughter if I ever caught her bullying someone, she would be punished.  But, because she has been there, she stands up for the bullied child.  Maybe some parents out there need to be parents.  Interact with your child, KNOW your child.  Maybe if we started at home, there would be a lot less bullying in school.

Good points. In my experience, when kids are bullies you can trace it right back to the parents. Not always, of course.
What sickens me about this situation is that the girl was getting help. She was in counselling  and had the support of her parents and teachers. Now everyone else wants to come out and say how awful it is, etc etc. Where they hell were they when this was going on? Mainly those in the media and what not. I cannot know what her friends and classmates were or were not doing.

[Princess Serenity]

I saw this on tumblr. These kinds of posts are common and I usually don't reblog them. Not because I don't care because they're called "guit posts." Trying to get you to reblog and make you feel "guilty." (Which I find very low.)

By the way, I'm not saying these particular post isn't a "guilt post" they manage to get a lot of notes.

Edited by Princess Serenity, 14 October 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[sarah_444]

Imaginarynumber1, on 13 October 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

It's a bit ironic, how everybody suddenly cares and the outpouring of support after she kills herself.

I was thinking a bit about this earlier today. She posted the video approximately a month ago. It's really sad things obviously didn't get better for her after putting it up.

[Princess Serenity]

Imaginarynumber1, on 13 October 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

It's a bit ironic, how everybody suddenly cares and the outpouring of support after she kills herself.

Yeah. =.= This kind of thing annoys me so much!

Edit:

Found another post for Amanda.

Edited by Princess Serenity, 14 October 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

DarkHunter, on 12 October 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

This is a tragedy, of that there is no doubt, but trying to remove bullies will not solve the problem, it is at best a practice in futility.  You can talk as much as you want about zero tolerance but that will never solve the problem, at best it will just change the type of bulling, at worst make it far more of a problem.  You can talk about punishing the parents but that will not solve anything either.  All that would do is prolong kids learning about taking responsibility for their actions and getting the parents involved in a fight with the school and/or state.  

Bullying is a part of human nature and you just can't remove or change it.  Instead of wasting so much time, energy, and money in fighting a battle that can never be won the best and logical course of action would be to develop some kind of support system for the bullied.  Instead of focusing so much on stopping the bully which can't be done, why not instead just focus on helping those who are bullied, especially those who are showing signs of suicide.

The kids who are committing suicide often have more problems going on then just bullying going on that need to be addressed and stopping the bullies won't fi those other problems.  All of this targeting the bully stuff to me just sounds like a bunch of people who where bullied when they where younger and are out for revenge and don't truly care for the plight of those being bullied.

In knowing that you are a self confessed bully and the argument you take on the subject of bullies having a place in the 'grand scheme of things', due to a thread back in June this year, I felt the need to respond to this post of yours.

Your very first words to this are, "this is a tragedy" the rest of your post is nothing short of defence. Just so you know up front, i am not picking on you as an individual, but treating this as an opportunity to understand the mindset.

Your posted here -

Quote

You can talk about punishing the parents but that will not solve anything either.  All that would do is prolong kids learning about taking responsibility for their actions and getting the parents involved in a fight with the school and/or state.

Punishing the parents - why not ? Statistics show that those who bully,  often come from backgrounds where bullying is a form of control be it from a parent or sibling. If it comes from the siblings and the parents don't correct it, that it self has to raise flags ? maybe in some case they don't geniually know, but still. My suspicions would be that some parents feel it is ok to allow the alpha spawn child do the bullying if it means a more peaceful easier time for them. The fact is, children only learn to control others through regressive behaviour and pain, because they, themselves, have had it done to them.

So if punishing the parents is what it takes to make a family 'grow up' and get counselling, therapy, advice, help, support on how to relate to one another without resorting to powering down on each other, that has to be a positive thing in the long run, for the survival of that family unit and every relationship yet to come from those in that family unit.

Those who are embarrassed for the parents to be alerted let alone punished is simply a symptom of ego and fear. It doesn't make sense to try and defend this point ? unless you are a bully.

Quote

The kids who are committing suicide often have more problems going on then just bullying going on that need to be addressed and stopping the bullies won't fi those other problems.

Did you read the extent of what she had been through for the length of time she had? nothing of what had happened to her raises any sense of disgust of how disgusting and filthy other human beings can be ? no, obviously not. Just an excuse saying those that can't handle bullying must have more problems than just the bully. The answer is no one one can ever know that, bullying affects self esteem, confidence and self worth, in the adult world it translates as abuse and you will be jailed and lose jobs/ careers and your reputation for doing it if the person seeks to report you/has evidence.

Out right mental and physical attacks can affect a person's 'limits' in ways you may not ever know. You can't measure everyone on the same level as yourself, you have no idea what another persons breaking point may be, unless you have an ounce of empathy in you. Seriously don't be even more insulting than you are by trying to excuse suicide in this case for something else that must have caused it than the bullying.

Edited by bLu3 de 3n3rgy, 14 October 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

glorybebe, on 13 October 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Yes,  very true.  I had a talk with my teenage daughter and asked her what she would do if she was in a drastic situation with bullying.  She said she would tell me.  That is the right answer, but for some kids, it isn't.

Sorry but don't ever rely on your child telling you just because they say they would. A bullied person goes into a different / altered mindset from their normal esteem level, a stress level that may see and dictate things differently. For many kids admitting they need help or asking for help from their parents is a complex stressful task. Depends on the relationship, but parents may be the last to know anything because the kid fears disappointing or causing the parent pain. It's talks regarding the more in depth emotions and mental states and plan of action on how the parent would react/support the situation that could make the bigger difference.

[DarkHunter]

bLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 14 October 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

In knowing that you are a self confessed bully and the argument you take on the subject of bullies having a place in the 'grand scheme of things', due to a thread back in June this year, I felt the need to respond to this post of yours.

Your very first words to this are, "this is a tragedy" the rest of your post is nothing short of defence. Just so you know up front, i am not picking on you as an individual, but treating this as an opportunity to understand the mindset.

Your posted here -

I will do what I can to help better understand the mindset.

bLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 14 October 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Punishing the parents - why not ? Statistics show that those who bully,  often come from backgrounds where bullying is a form of control be it from a parent or sibling. If it comes from the siblings and the parents don't correct it, that it self has to raise flags ? maybe in some case they don't geniually know, but still. My suspicions would be that some parents feel it is ok to allow the alpha spawn child do the bullying if it means a more peaceful easier time for them. The fact is, children only learn to control others through regressive behaviour and pain, because they, themselves, have had it done to them.

So if punishing the parents is what it takes to make a family 'grow up' and get counselling, therapy, advice, help, support on how to relate to one another without resorting to powering down on each other, that has to be a positive thing in the long run, for the survival of that family unit and every relationship yet to come from those in that family unit.

Those who are embarrassed for the parents to be alerted let alone punished is simply a symptom of ego and fear. It doesn't make sense to try and defend this point ? unless you are a bully.

First I am going to have to disagree with the statistics.  I am not saying that they are wrong, but I think they are probably to limited to what many would consider the more traditional bulling.  I highly doubt the statistics took into account what many would consider  less traditional types of bullying such as mental, social, inter team, and so on.  

I have a few problems with punishing the parents.  First how likely is it that the parents will just accept the punishment for the actions of their children.  To me it just seems that it would create extensive legal battles between the parents and the school/state.  People already get into extensive legal battles for crimes and acts they clearly committed, how much more likely are they to get into an extensive legal battle that they did not commit, especially when fame and/or extensive money is more then likely involved.  Second I see this being used by the state to advance into the home.  Already the state likes to advance its control whenever a chance arises, so why would the state not like to further its power by telling adults how to raise their children.  I just see more problems arising from attempting to punish the parents then any actual benefits.  

bLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 14 October 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Did you read the extent of what she had been through for the length of time she had? nothing of what had happened to her raises any sense of disgust of how disgusting and filthy other human beings can be ? no, obviously not. Just an excuse saying those that can't handle bullying must have more problems than just the bully. The answer is none one can ever know that, bullying affects self esteem, confidence and self worth, in the adult world it translates as abuse and you will be jailed and lose jobs/ careers and your reputation for doing it.

Out right mental and physical attacks can affect a person's 'limits' in ways you may not ever know. You can't measure everyone on the same level as yourself, you have no idea what another persons breaking point may be, unless you have an ounce of empathy in you. Seriously don't be even more insulting than you are by trying to excuse suicide in this case for something else that must have caused it than the bullying.

I did read the extent of what she has been through and sadly to say she brought much of it on herself.  First she flashed someone she did not know and the consequences came back to get her in the form of the guy blackmailing her.  Then she got into drugs and alcohol which probably didn't help her mental state at all, actually she says her anxiety got worse from that point unsurprisingly.  The guy coming back was not her fault, but I would like to know how he came back so quickly, weren't charges pressed.  Next she gets involved with a guy who she knew had a girlfriend.  Lastly she stays on a social networking site even though it is causing her problems, which is bad enough, but she doesn't even use the block feature or take any steps at all of ignoring them.  All of that is just from what she mentioned in that video which I doubt covers everything.

I do not have enough information to tell if she had other problems or not even though I have a feeling she does based on how she acted.  I was speaking more in a general sense with that statement then this particular case since we know so little about her before the bullying started.  

As for how bullying affects people in childhood and the adult world that thread in June shows clearly enough how I view that, which is nearly if not diametrically opposed to your view.

I fear that I may not get my point of view across as clearly as I hope to since it is rather late and I am rather tired.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

DarkHunter, on 14 October 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

I will do what I can to help better understand the mindset.
First I am going to have to disagree with the statistics.  I am not saying that they are wrong, but I think they are probably to limited to what many would consider the more traditional bulling.  I highly doubt the statistics took into account what many would consider  less traditional types of bullying such as mental, social, inter team, and so on.  

I have a few problems with punishing the parents.  First how likely is it that the parents will just accept the punishment for the actions of their children.  To me it just seems that it would create extensive legal battles between the parents and the school/state.  

Doesn't have to though. Punishment could be being made to go to family therapy sessions. The point is, while a child is still in the legal care of their guardian / parent, the guardian / parent take full responsibility for the child. If there is a bullying issue and enough evidence to support that negative, aggressive, anti social behaviour is rife in that family, no matter 'who' is causing it or being a role model for it, then it can only benefit the whole family to treat the issue as a family.

Quote

  Then she got into drugs and alcohol which probably didn't help her mental state at all, actually she says her anxiety got worse from that point unsurprisingly.

It was the other way around, the drugs and alcohol abuse came as a result of experiencing severe anxiety, depression and panic attacks. She admits a couple of times to making a mistake etc, but no one can ever estimate the potential damage that can be caused emotionally or mentally. The drugs and alcohol abuse came as a secondary issue to try and self medicate the anxiety from the trauma of going through the bullying and being stalked the first time around by the male.. The whole example of this poor girls downfall, details exactly how poor self esteem and self worth goes on to affect judgements and the choices made but just because she was in a low place doesn't excuse anyone else's part in it or their bad behaviour for using her/ bullying her.

[sarah_444]

DarkHunter, on 14 October 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

  Lastly she stays on a social networking site even though it is causing her problems, which is bad enough, but she doesn't even use the block feature or take any steps at all of ignoring them.  

We don't know that, she could have blocked and ignored many things. I just wanted to add in here though, that even if she had completely deleted her account it wouldn't have stopped this guy, or man, or whoever he is from doing what he did.  He went out of his way to create his own page about her with screenshots taken from his webcam, listing all of her friends and school information.

[DarkHunter]

bLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 14 October 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Doesn't have to though. Punishment could be being made to go to family therapy sessions. The point is, while a child is still in the legal care of their guardian / parent, the guardian / parent take full responsibility for the child. If there is a bullying issue and enough evidence to support that negative, aggressive, anti social behaviour is rife in that family, no matter 'who' is causing it or being a role model for it, then it can only benefit the whole family to treat the issue as a family.

How are you going to ensure the family goes to the therapy sessions is the first problem.  People are generally busy and will not like having to take time out of their day to go to therapy for something they did not do or consider wrong.  That means the only way to guarantee that people will go to therapy is to have a punishment for not going.  No matter which way you try it will always end the same, either nothing will happen or extensive legal battles.

You did not address the problem of the state being brought into the house.  Do we really want the government to decide what is considered appropriate and good for a family.

bLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 14 October 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

It was the other way around, the drugs and alcohol abuse came as a result of experiencing severe anxiety, depression and panic attacks. She admits a couple of times to making a mistake etc, but no one can ever estimate the potential damage that can be caused emotionally or mentally. The drugs and alcohol abuse came as a secondary issue to try and self medicate the anxiety from the trauma of going through the bullying and being stalked the first time around by the male.. The whole example of this poor girls downfall, details exactly how poor self esteem and self worth goes on to affect judgements and the choices made but just because she was in a low place doesn't excuse anyone else's part in it or their bad behaviour for using her/ bullying her.

Maybe I misunderstood what she wrote but she first said she had anxiety, depression, and panic attacks then got on drugs and alcohol and her anxiety got worse.  I took that to mean that the drugs and alcohol made her condition worse.  Either way it does not change the fact that she still got on drugs and alcohol and there is no telling how much damage the drugs and alcohol did to her which she clearly brought on herself.  


As I said I do not have enough evidence for this but I feel that she had the low self esteem and self worth problems before the bullying even started.  She flashed a person she did not know because of some compliments, got into drugs and alcohol, and then gets involved with a guy who has a girlfriend when things started to get better for her.  All of these seem to point to problems with self esteem and self worth.  The bullying may of brought these problems to the surface but it doesn't change the fact they already existed and anything could of started this chain of events and stopping the bullying wouldn't of fixed these problems.  

sarah_444, on 14 October 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

We don't know that, she could have blocked and ignored many things. I just wanted to add in here though, that even if she had completely deleted her account it wouldn't have stopped this guy, or man, or whoever he is from doing what he did.  He went out of his way to create his own page about her with screenshots taken from his webcam, listing all of her friends and school information.

You are right that we do not know for sure, as you said she could of blocked and ignored many things, but the fact that she says she saw the post and pictures leads me to believe that she did little to no blocking since if you block a person you see nothing from them.  You are right again that blocking or deleting her account wouldn't of stopped that guy from making that page, but if she would of contacted the owners of the site she could of got the page deleted and the person banned because he broke at least two terms of use agreements if not more and once you add in the stalking, harassment, and probably slander could of got the guy arrested for sure.

[and then]

This should be the easiest crime in the world to prove.  If it's primarily accomplished via internet then there is a permanent record of every statement - date, time and location of device it came from.  The laws should be changed such that in a case where a child kills themselves SOMEONE is held criminally liable.

[FurthurBB]

sarah_444, on 12 October 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Toronto Sun article

I think this is so unimaginably wrong, but I also think that parents need to talk to their children about sexting,  inappropriate pictures and general behavior in our new technologically advanced society.  Don't get me wrong, there is never any excuse for bullying, but I do believe in a lot of cases it could have been avoided if the parents would have sat down and talked to their children about these issues.  Judging from the facebook pages of a lot of my daughter's friends, I would say this is a conversation that is not happening often enough.

Just wanted to edit to add often enough.

Edited by FurthurBB, 15 October 2012 - 02:49 PM.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Bullying is an issue but it seems like everyone is ignoring the fact that she flashed her chest on webcam. Why do kids think this is okay? Is it because all of the celebs do it? Every week there are pics of some celeb that got hacked of them naked. KEEP YOUR DAMN CLOTHES ON. Some people have no respect for themselves or they think "not me" or "not my boyfriend, he loves me, he would never do that." Let alone showing someone you do not know on the internet. Have you guys seen high school girls these days? They just can't show enough skin...We have a serious cultural issue going on and we need to stop supporting it. It is horrible that this girl took her own life from the bullying but I imagine anyone that has naked pictures of themsleves out there get bullied.

I think everyone shares some of the blame...her parents for not talking with her and raising her better, her for flashing on webcam, the guy for posting the pictures, and the kids that bullied her to the point that she took her own life.

[sarah_444]

HuttonEtAl, on 15 October 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Bullying is an issue but it seems like everyone is ignoring the fact that she flashed her chest on webcam. Why do kids think this is okay? Is it because all of the celebs do it? Every week there are pics of some celeb that got hacked of them naked. KEEP YOUR DAMN CLOTHES ON. Some people have no respect for themselves or they think "not me" or "not my boyfriend, he loves me, he would never do that." Let alone showing someone you do not know on the internet. Have you guys seen high school girls these days? They just can't show enough skin...We have a serious cultural issue going on and we need to stop supporting it. It is horrible that this girl took her own life from the bullying but I imagine anyone that has naked pictures of themsleves out there get bullied.

I think everyone shares some of the blame...her parents for not talking with her and raising her better, her for flashing on webcam, the guy for posting the pictures, and the kids that bullied her to the point that she took her own life.

I don't think anyone is ignoring the mistakes she made.   The fact is though, everybody makes stupid mistakes and it doesn't mean that you deserve to be beat up or tormented daily for it.

Edited by sarah_444, 15 October 2012 - 04:47 PM.