CIA Misled Senate, White House seez report

[questionmark]

The CIA "provided inaccurate information to the White House, Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA inspector general, the media and the American public," about the interrogation techniques it used on terror suspects, a long-held Senate Intelligence Committee report finds.

The report provides the most comprehensive public accounting of the interrogation techniques used by the Central Intelligence Agency after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The report comes to two major conclusions: The CIA misrepresented the interrogation techniques it was using at secret prisons abroad and it also overstated the techniques' efficacy. The report details the brutal techniques used on 20 detainees and found that those interrogations led to no useful intelligence.

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Why do I get the feeling that this is a desperate attempt to push the blame down the hill?

[+OverSword]

Torture is wrong. Period. Shame on our government for condoning it.

[Dark_Grey]

"Well, we tortured some folks."

So the question now is who holds the CIA accountable?

[Empty Garden]

It is sad what the US government has become.

[bubblykiss]

It is sad what the US government has become.

US Gov't memo to China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, et al,

Torture is bad when you do. But fine when we do it.

Do as we say, not as we do.

[Dark_Grey]

Do as we say, not as we do.

Truly, that is now the American way

[SHaYap]

Its how power manifests itself these days ~

[theotherguy]

If their "interrogation" methods are being reported they're likely not using those methods anymore. And now, The Test: Have they stopped all "enhanced interrogation techniques" or are they coming up with new methods? I prefer to think that it's the former, but they have a reputation that their history lives up to...

Edited December 9, 2014 by theotherguy

[+and-then]

Torture is wrong. Period. Shame on our government for condoning it.

So is killing 3000 people who did nothing but show up for work. And I agree, torture IS wrong. But if the choice is to allow those who would destroy us free reign or to torture MURDERERS for information to keep them from killing even more then I'm willing to do what is necessary and I believe if one of those that would be saved is your family member you would accept it as well.

[+OverSword]

So is killing 3000 people who did nothing but show up for work. And I agree, torture IS wrong. But if the choice is to allow those who would destroy us free reign or to torture MURDERERS for information to keep them from killing even more then I'm willing to do what is necessary and I believe if one of those that would be saved is your family member you would accept it as well.

So going against your principals in an effort to preserve who you are is appropriate? No. BTW, how would torturing people, many of whom were released and had nothing to do with terrorism, have prevented 9/11 after the fact? How many innocent people is it ok to torture in order to ensure you torture some of the ones that may have had something to do with it? Because by the governments own admission we tortured a lot of innocents as well.

Just, NO.

Edited December 9, 2014 by OverSword

[Beefers]

So is killing 3000 people who did nothing but show up for work. And I agree, torture IS wrong. But if the choice is to allow those who would destroy us free reign or to torture MURDERERS for information to keep them from killing even more then I'm willing to do what is necessary and I believe if one of those that would be saved is your family member you would accept it as well.

There were a lot of innocent suspects tortured, how is that ever ok? The government should change its policies, it keeps giving people good reason to hate on (and sometimes attack) the US. Or should crimes done by the US lead to no hard feelings from the enemy?

[Arbenol]

So is killing 3000 people who did nothing but show up for work. And I agree, torture IS wrong. But if the choice is to allow those who would destroy us free reign or to torture MURDERERS for information to keep them from killing even more then I'm willing to do what is necessary and I believe if one of those that would be saved is your family member you would accept it as well.

Several things wong here:

First the facts.

Many innocent people were arrested, detained and tortured for years.

No decent intelligence was gathered using these methods.

Now an opinion.

Tactics like this are likely to produce more terrorists (and therefore more innocent deaths) than the number of lives they save. It's not a solution - it works to perpetuate and worsen the situation.

Not to mention, it's morally reprehensible. How can any nation take the moral high ground whilst engaging in this behaviour. It makes any reasonable person think that both sides are as bad as each other.

Your argument is an emotional one, and no problems ever got solved that way. Usually, they just makes things worse.

[questionmark]

So is killing 3000 people who did nothing but show up for work. And I agree, torture IS wrong. But if the choice is to allow those who would destroy us free reign or to torture MURDERERS for information to keep them from killing even more then I'm willing to do what is necessary and I believe if one of those that would be saved is your family member you would accept it as well.

That is why those are called terrorists and we are called a system of justice. And it is also wrong because as we know now: It did not yield any usable data at all.

All torture is good for is that a few sadists get a good yerk-off... and it never been good for anything else.

Saying that others are just as bad shows just one thing: a defective morality.

[F3SS]

Good grief. Does anyone honestly care if some terrorists were tortured in attempt to gain Intel? I bet you really don't. So they got some water dumped on their faces and were never going to be killed or seriously hurt. That's a walk in the park compared to real torture that people have endured throughout time. Drawn and quartered, the iron maiden, lion pits, electrocution... You know, serious physical pain. What's the alternative sometimes? Ask nicely? Pound a fist on a desk? Give me a break. Perhaps some "innocents" got caught up in it but we aren't North Korea. We never tortured for shts and giggles. There was a real purpose behind it. Some say tiptoe true garners only false information. BS. Sometimes maybe but not always and only. That's some bleeding heart nonsense there. Who's not more likely to spill the beans while being tortured as a opposed to simply being asked? Right, that's what I thought. There are plenty of ways and reasons to demonize the Feds but I personally could care less if Chemical Ali or whoever gets water dumped on his face or gets an ice pick in his eye. Why should you? Oh it perpetuates terrorism. I see. So these guys are going to stop hating, threatening and killing US if we just sit back and empathize with them? Ya ok.

[questionmark]

Good grief. Does anyone honestly care if some terrorists were tortured in attempt to gain Intel? I bet you really don't. So they got some water dumped on their faces and were never going to be killed or seriously hurt. That's a walk in the park compared to real torture that people have endured throughout time. Drawn and quartered, the iron maiden, lion pits, electrocution... You know, serious physical pain. What's the alternative sometimes? Ask nicely? Pound a fist on a desk? Give me a break. Perhaps some "innocents" got caught up in it but we aren't North Korea. We never tortured for shts and giggles. There was a real purpose behind it. Some say tiptoe true garners only false information. BS. Sometimes maybe but not always and only. That's some bleeding heart nonsense there. Who's not more likely to spill the beans while being tortured as a opposed to simply being asked? Right, that's what I thought. There are plenty of ways and reasons to demonize the Feds but I personally could care less if Chemical Ali or whoever gets water dumped on his face or gets an ice pick in his eye. Why should you? Oh it perpetuates terrorism. I see. So these guys are going to stop hating, threatening and killing US if we just sit back and empathize with them? Ya ok.

To the contrary of some who keep screaming framers and constitution in every second sentence I actually do care whether Americans torture condoned by the government. Must be that I actually believe that humans (besides myself and my friends) have certain unalienable rights. No matter what we suspected them of doing.

Edited December 9, 2014 by questionmark

[odas]

Good grief. Does anyone honestly care if some terrorists were tortured in attempt to gain Intel? I bet you really don't. So they got some water dumped on their faces and were never going to be killed or seriously hurt. That's a walk in the park compared to real torture that people have endured throughout time. Drawn and quartered, the iron maiden, lion pits, electrocution... You know, serious physical pain. What's the alternative sometimes? Ask nicely? Pound a fist on a desk? Give me a break. Perhaps some "innocents" got caught up in it but we aren't North Korea. We never tortured for shts and giggles. There was a real purpose behind it. Some say tiptoe true garners only false information. BS. Sometimes maybe but not always and only. That's some bleeding heart nonsense there. Who's not more likely to spill the beans while being tortured as a opposed to simply being asked? Right, that's what I thought. There are plenty of ways and reasons to demonize the Feds but I personally could care less if Chemical Ali or whoever gets water dumped on his face or gets an ice pick in his eye. Why should you? Oh it perpetuates terrorism. I see. So these guys are going to stop hating, threatening and killing US if we just sit back and empathize with them? Ya ok.

Yes, the old " we are doing it too but we are not them".

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

So is killing 3000 people who did nothing but show up for work. And I agree, torture IS wrong. But if the choice is to allow those who would destroy us free reign or to torture MURDERERS for information to keep them from killing even more then I'm willing to do what is necessary and I believe if one of those that would be saved is your family member you would accept it as well.

Jesus Wept.

[F3SS]

Yes, the old " we are doing it too but we are not them".

I noted a difference. You read it. I don't believe sadism was ever our driving force. Eye of the beholder I guess. Do you honestly care that we poured water on someone? It's not like we set them on a gauntlet.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Coldly and clinically simulating the effects of drowning does not sound like "poured some water" to me.

[F3SS]

Whatever. Tell me that you really truly care.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Whatever. Tell me that you really truly care.

That innocent people were ******* tortured?

OF COURSE I CARE.

[F3SS]

If that's what you want to focus on but that isn't the core of the issue. I doubt the absolute innocence of most who found their way into Gitmo. Innocents wrongfully interrogated are a secondary issue. Do you really care that we poured water on a bad guy's face? I highly doubt it.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

If that's what you want to focus on but that isn't the core of the issue. I doubt the absolute innocence of most who found their way into Gitmo. Innocents wrongfully interrogated are a secondary issue. Do you really care that we poured water on a bad guy's face? I highly doubt it.

Son I don't care if they stuck flaming pokers up a "bad guy's" **** until his eyeballs caught fire.

But the moment you do that to a "good guy" then there's a problem. And if you don't know if they're a "bad guy" or a "good guy" then ... you damn well don't do it.

You think it's better an innocent man dies then a evil man goes free.

I think the reverse, better an evil man go free then an innocent suffer.

At the end of the day I believe in God and I believe in karma. The bad guy? He'll get what's coming sooner or later.

[Likely Guy]

While this is still news, IMHO this thread should eventually get moved to the 'Conspiracies' forum. It might be the only topic there that has a leg to stand on.

Crap: Just as I wrote that I realized that that's one of the allegations of torture that I heard earlier, breaking one leg and making them stand.

Freudian? I don't know.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Likely Guy

[F3SS]

Son I don't care if they stuck flaming pokers up a "bad guy's" **** until his eyeballs caught fire.

But the moment you do that to a "good guy" then there's a problem. And if you don't know if they're a "bad guy" or a "good guy" then ... you damn well don't do it.

You think it's better an innocent man dies then a evil man goes free.

I think the reverse, better an evil man go free then an innocent suffer.

At the end of the day I believe in God and I believe in karma. The bad guy? He'll get what's coming sooner or later.

Son? Don't think so. You're purposefully and severely convoluting the issue. You could care less about the techniques, as I said. What innocents died from the methods exercised by the U.S.? Got a list?