84 replies to this topic

[rustygh]

Royal, on 14 March 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

Infinity is the everything of one thing at a time, not the everything of everything," everything is possible" is in and of itself an impossibility. Nothing is only something in that it is devoid of anything,and Nothing can be infinite until it becomes something.Consciouseness can be infinite but it cannot be everything.In the beginning there was infinite nothingness that became something, and thats everything we know.

Infinite doesn't account for the past or time gone. Another way to say that is, infinite is forward. Infinite is not the everything of one thing, infinite doesn't account for the past in equations of time.

I would think it better described as the unknown end, or never ending progression. I do agree we cannot say infinite equals everything!

[rustygh]

pallidin, on 14 March 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Well, I hope there is a God, else I'm in deep doo doo when I die, with no conciousness, no nothing.

I choose to believe in God, though I offer no "proof"

Eases my troubled mind, I guess.

This is very interesting to me. If for just a second we were to agree that man at some point created religion and god to control masses of people, then I wonder if they had the foresight to see the power the belief would have?

For me I'm relieved by the idea that I don't have a god to answer to. Heh, that said I'm generally a good person and have morals I follow and learned from my parents.

[Royal]

rustygh, on 18 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Infinite doesn't account for the past or time gone. Another way to say that is, infinite is forward. Infinite is not the everything of one thing, infinite doesn't account for the past in equations of time.

I would think it better described as the unknown end, or never ending progression. I do agree we cannot say infinite equals everything!

  Welcome to the conversations rustygh. In my post I stated that infinity is the everything of one thing at a time( such as the infinity of time) as opposed to being the everything of everything. You're right that infinity can't be applied to the past,because we 're pretty sure the Big Bang happened in the not infinite past, so going forward into the future Time could very well be infinite.

[Seeker79]

Frank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

I should know better than to tell people their thinking is in a box even though to me it is obvious; if it were obvious to them they would step out of it.  

I don't know for sure where logic comes from.  When I say A implies B and B implies C, then I conclude A implies C.  I cannot imagine a universe where that could be different, but of coure inability to imagine may only mean lack of imagination.  Still, from everything that I see I lean toward logic dictating nature.  Maybe its a false dichotomy.

Formal logic is basically rules to have a valid argument, without fallacious junk creeping in. Im not totally a fan of it myself, but have had to learn.

As to the rest of it. What is logical thought rarely is truth in nature. We might think a+b = c, but upon closer observation we may discover that a+b= supercakafragicexcbaslladoshes, but once supercakafragicexcbaslladoshes is known its easy to say supercakafrag + icexcbaslladoshes = supercakafragicexcbaslladoshes and a + b had nothing to do with it, but c = supercakafragicexcbaslladoshes.

Logical hindsight is a cake walk 20/20. Logical prediction however has the track record of a $20 psychic.

[Blueogre2]

First of all we have to prove God exists before we can have any serious conversation about where he came from. But anyway lets say he does exist,  why does he have to come from anywhere? Maybe he always existed?

[danielost]

Blueogre2, on 26 March 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

First of all we have to prove God exists before we can have any serious conversation about where he came from. But anyway lets say he does exist,  why does he have to come from anywhere? Maybe he always existed?

No, we may need to agree as to the nature of god.  We don't need to agree that he exists.  We may need to agree as to what god is to tslk about him, but that is where religoen comes in.  So you can talk to or listen to others who gree with us.  We can have a more meaningfulconversation with those who have a different view from ours.  Agreeing to disagree.

[pallidin]

I offer no proof, rather just my opinion, that "God" just "IS" and always has been and always will.

[AquilaChrysaetos]

Blueogre2, on 26 March 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

First of all we have to prove God exists before we can have any serious conversation about where he came from. But anyway lets say he does exist,  why does he have to come from anywhere? Maybe he always existed?

That's actually the entire point of my formula.

[Rlyeh]

Seeker79, on 14 March 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

There is no evidence that the big bang created the vacume. Therefore the potential for the vacuume to carry a signal ( time). This notion that time and space were created at the BB is misunderstood. The "space" between things in that if everything were created then it certainly was, but not the vaccume itself. Nor time. For there to be no time before time, this implies sequencing therefore time certainly has to exist for all time. Or rather time simply dosnt exist at all other than a recognition of change. We don't understand pre big bang conditions so we say "time as we know it" didn't exist. Despite popular belief this does not imply that there was not a before.  My personal belief is that it all started with a rare quantum tunneling event that is fairly simple to understand. This also implies that somewhere else deep in the vaccume it is probably happening again.

No more misunderstood than your belief of this rare quantum tunneling event.

[Frank Merton]

I don't think there is a God, but He makes a good working theory and a wonderful object for thought experiments.  I would say thought that it probably irritates Him a bit when people believe in Him only because they don't want to cease existing when they die.  The unavoidable fact is we cease to exist every moment and a new us is born the next.  We are never the same river.