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Something to ponder about the universe


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#31    Sun Raven

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 12:33 PM

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Galaxies do have their own momentum, and every now and then they'll collide with eachother. But most are moving away from eachother, because they're being "drawn out" by the expansion of space...dots on an inflating balloon spreading apart. thumbsup.gif


It's not that they have their own momentum, the dark energy force is not the only force in the universe, see gravity also affects in this, and sometimes gravity is stronger than the dark energy, and thats why galaxies collide, but this dark energy is constant so as 2 galaxies collide because of the force of gravity wich pulls them into each other they are still moving away together from other points of the universe. Did I explain myself well?  geek.gif

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Take it however you want. I already apologized.


Ok enough of this bickering it's really ruining my mood, I will not take it how I want but how it is, I think it is the logical thing to do. Thank you for the apology.

Edited by Alex01, 07 September 2007 - 12:39 PM.

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#32    Harte

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 04:47 PM

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What a minute?  Pre-existing space?  What do you mean by that?  Most would believe there was nothing before the Big Bang.  I'm not sure if I comprehend you right.  Are you saying the Big Bang - expansion - that we're inside the bubble of this expansion?  A little boggled - trying to picture it.   It's either we're inside this sphere of expansion, or we're on the outside of the sphere, like dots on a balloon.

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We're a dot on the surface of the balloon. yes.gif


LordBishop,

This ain't precisely correct.  I mean, we are dots on the surface, yes, but the surface is the universe, the interior is not.  You could think of the interior as if it was some other dimension, maybe (although I've read where this is also incorrect and the balloon analogy can't be carried that far.)

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Here's my thought.  I can see (believe) the known universe starting from a single point and because of this unknown energy compacted in a single space "explode" which causes an "expansion", but not something (the universe) starting from a single point and expanding outwards like a balloon.  What is the force being the expansion?  My guess would be the explosion.

Yet the entire universe, space itself, began it's life with the Big Bang.  Not just space by the way, but time as well.  After all, space and time are just two different aspects of the same thing - spacetime - right?

Matter is not expanding into empty, pre-existing space, Space itself is expanding, and the matter in the universe is just cruising along with it like a surfer on a wave.  Well, not exactly like a surfer on a wave.

I believe someone said earlier that the "design concept" of universes (I assume they meant solar systems) and galaxies might be ingrained into reality like the fern/fractal example.  And that atoms reflect a similar design.

The universe does not display anything like this design. Careful measurements of tiny variations in the cosmic background radiation reveals the large-scale structure of the universe is sort of like a web, but not well-defined like a spider web, just flimsy webs of matter connected over vast distances by extremely long strands of matter.

BTW, electrons do not "go around" the nucleus of an atom.  That is a simplification of the Bohr model, which is just a model and not a depiction of reality at all.

Somebody's watching too much Jimmy Neutron.

Harte


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#33    LordBishop

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 05:41 PM

I never doubted that space is expanding. I mentioned that if space was expanding, perhaps it was caused by the explosion, however, it seems that we're all going around and around with no one on either side willing to budge.  Fine, you and the other person believe the universe is one giant balloon and we're nothing but dots on the outside of it and the interior of this balloon is another dimension.   wacko.gif   Fine, whatever you say.

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#34    Harte

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 05:10 PM

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Fine, you and the other person believe the universe is one giant balloon and we're nothing but dots on the outside of it and the interior of this balloon is another dimension.   wacko.gif   Fine, whatever you say.

LordBishop,

This is not a "belief."  It is an analogy to what Man has so far been able to deduce about the nature of the universe.

If the analogy doesn't work for you, I'm sorry.  It's not my analogy.  It is constructed to demonstrate how the red shift data are explained by the expansion theory.  Being that it's hard to visualize the 3-d version of this, a 2-d version (the surface of a balloon) was used to help students understand why the red shift data actually infers uniform expansion.

Harte


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Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#35    Sun Raven

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 08:35 PM

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I never doubted that space is expanding. I mentioned that if space was expanding, perhaps it was caused by the explosion, however, it seems that we're all going around and around with no one on either side willing to budge.  Fine, you and the other person believe the universe is one giant balloon and we're nothing but dots on the outside of it and the interior of this balloon is another dimension.   wacko.gif   Fine, whatever you say.


The balloon explanation is just that, an explanation, not to be confused with the real fact. This explanation is used to explain the big bang and the expansion of the universe itself.

You seem to be confusing the model of the explanation with the real model ( the universe), as to thinking the universe is a balloon, but this itself isn't true. Of course I know you can't be serious....

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