Child Protective Services vs. God

[J. K.]

Do you think there will come a time in the USA when CPS can remove children from a home due to them being exposed to the parents' style of religious upbringing?

[danielost]

don't know but don't go giving them ideas. they get 1000 dollars a month per child they take from home. doesn't matter if they have a good reason opr not. they had a field day here in texas a couple of years ago. the removed 200-300 children from a religion compound. this was after a judge ordered them not to.

[Grandpa Greenman]

The courts have already done it in the to some Pagans. That has kind of changed with more education about Paganism. But if a religion is used to defend child abuse you have to draw the line some place. In the case of parents refusing to take their child to a doctor for medical care, shouldn't CPS step in and save the child?

[White Crane Feather]

Do you think there will come a time in the USA when CPS can remove children from a home due to them being exposed to the parents' style of religious upbringing?

Gwaaad I hope not unless it's endangering the child via faith only based healing. Though I think it's prudent to draw lines when it comes to certain concepts like stem-cell based techniques or very invasive kemo style treatments. Many decisions still need to be left to parents.

[White Crane Feather]

The courts have already done it in the to some Pagans. That has kind of changed with more education about Paganism. But if a religion is used to defend child abuse you have to draw the line some place. In the case of parents refusing to take their child to a doctor for medical care, shouldn't CPS step in and save the child?

My sisters x-husband accused her of being a witch in court, he actually stood up and shouted "but she is a witch... She really is." She did dable in some Wicca, but the judge understood it was he that's was very unbalanced. She got custody.

[Wickian]

Do you think there will come a time in the USA when CPS can remove children from a home due to them being exposed to the parents' style of religious upbringing?

They already do this. Parents who cause the serious harm/death of one child through something like faith healing will likely have their other children taken from them.

[+Liquid Gardens]

Do you think there will come a time in the USA when CPS can remove children from a home due to them being exposed to the parents' style of religious upbringing?

I doubt it for the next couple generations at least, especially in the US of all places. In addition to the protections for religion expression in the Constitution, we also have the high likelihood that for the foreseeable future Christians will remain a majority here.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Do you think there will come a time in the USA when CPS can remove children from a home due to them being exposed to the parents' style of religious upbringing?

As far as I know, if it is harming the child, I would think they would see the need. aa

don't know but don't go giving them ideas. they get 1000 dollars a month per child they take from home. doesn't matter if they have a good reason opr not. they had a field day here in texas a couple of years ago. the removed 200-300 children from a religion compound. this was after a judge ordered them not to.

This wasn't Waco, was it? Sorry, if I got my info wrong.

[danielost]

As far as I know, if it is harming the child, I would think they would see the need. aaThis wasn't Waco, was it? Sorry, if I got my info wrong.

no, not the one i am thinking of.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

no, not the one i am thinking of.

I would love more info on this, if you don't mind.

[danielost]

I would love more info on this, if you don't mind.

i can't find it.

[Skep B]

i can't find it.

go figure

My sisters x-husband accused her of being a witch in court, he actually stood up and shouted "but she is a witch... She really is." She did dable in some Wicca, but the judge understood it was he that's was very unbalanced. She got custody.

I don't like going into details but someone close to me had a really messy divorce and the father did the same thing in court. The women in question were pretty typical traditional southern baptists and there was no evidence, but reading your thing reminded me of it.

[J. K.]

I would love more info on this, if you don't mind.

http://www.womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=2324

Here is a link to an article about that incident.

[danielost]

http://www.womenofgr...om/blog/?p=2324

Here is a link to an article about that incident.

thanks

[willowdreams]

religion should be removed from the criteria when it comes to most things.

there should be guidelines met. are the children eating right/getting food.. are they in a neat/decently clean environment, do they get medical treatment/vaccines, are they verbally/physically/emotionally abused.

There should be a standard that 100% should meet, and religion not be permitted to exempt.

As long as the criteria is met, no abuse, neglect.. et et. Then nothing else should matter.

(and i consider educational needs important too.. as this helps children to survive in a work environment when they are adults).

Edited October 23, 2014 by willowdreams

[danielost]

sorry in most cases parental control trumps everything except abuse. i know abuse.

[Rlyeh]

don't know but don't go giving them ideas. they get 1000 dollars a month per child they take from home. doesn't matter if they have a good reason opr not. they had a field day here in texas a couple of years ago. the removed 200-300 children from a religion compound. this was after a judge ordered them not to.

http://www.womenofgr...om/blog/?p=2324

Here is a link to an article about that incident.

thanks

Wait, you support what the cult was doing? Edited October 23, 2014 by Rlyeh

[danielost]

Wait, you support what the cult was doing?

no, i don't support what the cult or cps did. i support the judge.

[ellapenella]

religion should be removed from the criteria when it comes to most things.

(and i consider educational needs important too.. as this helps children to survive in a work environment when they are adults).

I strongly disagree with you in your first statement regarding God. A true legit ,healthy minded individual morally grounded in Christian values will always make a better person in any field of employment .

There are many Christian schools and Christian collages educating people . Lets not disregard also the many brilliant thinkers ,historically till now ,that desired to know the mind of God ...

[Stubbly_Dooright]

i can't find it.

I'll search it. You got me intrigued onto this.

http://www.womenofgr...om/blog/?p=2324

Here is a link to an article about that incident.

Thank you, J. K. Appreciate that.

I strongly disagree with you in your first statement regarding God. A true legit ,healthy minded individual morally grounded in Christian values will always make a better person in any field of employment .

There are many Christian schools and Christian collages educating people . Lets not disregard also the many brilliant thinkers ,historically till now ,that desired to know the mind of God ...

Whoa, wait a minute. I don't think so. You cannot seriously believe that you think everyone should be educated to believe in God? Considering he cannot be proven to everyone, anyone force to believe in something they seriously don't believe in, will hurt them. I can they respect something that they feel hasn't shown anything to them? You need to link and prove examples that everyone is more grounded in this one particular belief? I find this a bit insulting to varying parts of the population. The Westover Baptish Church followers are raised in Christian values, and so I would think, do you consider them 'grounded'? Edited October 23, 2014 by Stubbly_Dooright

[Mr Walker]

Much more likely that parents will have children taken away from them for FAILING to provide them with any moral or ethical framework in life It is (in social and legal terms) a parent's duty and responsibility to pass on to their children the beliefs, knowledge, and wisdoms they have learned in life so that a child has them by the time they reach adult hood. It is no one else's social or legal responsibility to provide this form of education, not even a teacher's.

[willowdreams]

I strongly disagree with you in your first statement regarding God. A true legit ,healthy minded individual morally grounded in Christian values will always make a better person in any field of employment .

There are many Christian schools and Christian collages educating people . Lets not disregard also the many brilliant thinkers ,historically till now ,that desired to know the mind of God ...

I AM agnistic/atheist. I see nothing important in religion. HOWEVEra i did not say pple should lose their kids over religion/belief system. I said it should be removed from the equation.

That is different.

If you pray before meals, meals nothing. Who gives a hoot? I do not. If you force your child to eat till they vomit, or you deny your child healthy (decently healthy) food, I care.

If you read bible stories to kids, who cares. I love mythology and fairy stories too. Who gives a hoot, not me. But.. to beat your child.. to verbally abuse your child. THAT i care about.

You take your child to church services, fine.. cool, who cares, not me. If you refuse to take your child to a doctor when they are seriously ill and instead pray for your child.. *I* care. Your child unable to go to school because they are so seriously ill, but still not at a doctor because you are going to trust god to let them liveif they have enough faith, or let them die if they lack faith? *I* care

Religion should be removed from the criteria of keeping or losing your child.

There should be a criteria for the health and safety of your child. Mental/physical/medical.

Religion cannot be used as a 'reason' to abuse a child, nor deny children medical help to save their lives or basic education so they can provide for themselves once they become an adult.

Basic criteria needs to be followed and religion not permitted to be an excuse in any way shape or form, in NOT meeting certain criteria.

But believing in god, going to church, praying, reading your scripture of choice, what the crap ever, isnt important in the 'criteria' unless it promotes neglect/abuse/denial of decent health.'

I think most pple 'get this' and understand i am not saying 'you are not allowed to be religious', though personally i do not care for religion at all.

But see, that is the difference.

*I* do not believe in god. But I am not concerned about other pple believing in god.

I care more that children are cared for, loved, not abused and not denied an education or medical care. (by the way, I home schooled my two kids, but i made sure they passed standardized testing and any other testings the state deemed important PLUS they were involved in swim meets, karate and other groups of kids their age).

[willowdreams]

I'll search it. You got me intrigued onto this.

Thank you, J. K. Appreciate that.

Whoa, wait a minute. I don't think so. You cannot seriously believe that you think everyone should be educated to believe in God? Considering he cannot be proven to everyone, anyone force to believe in something they seriously don't believe in, will hurt them. I can they respect something that they feel hasn't shown anything to them? You need to link and prove examples that everyone is more grounded in this one particular belief? I find this a bit insulting to varying parts of the population. The Westover Baptish Church followers are raised in Christian values, and so I would think, do you consider them 'grounded'?

Christians claim to be the goodie two shoes in morality, I like the wiccan rede myself (or is it crede?)

"Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, An' it harm none, do what ye will"

i mean think on it.. an it harm none, do what ye will.

Do whatever you want, but it cannot harm anyone.. and that means yourself.

if everyone did what they wanted, within the bounds of it 'an it harm none', life would be decent for everyone.

[+Paranoid Android]

Christians claim to be the goodie two shoes in morality, I like the wiccan rede myself (or is it crede?)

"Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, An' it harm none, do what ye will"

i mean think on it.. an it harm none, do what ye will.

Do whatever you want, but it cannot harm anyone.. and that means yourself.

if everyone did what they wanted, within the bounds of it 'an it harm none', life would be decent for everyone.

It's also a very passive philosophy. I could conceivably sit in my room 24/7 and harm none. Though you may have a point if you suggest such an insular life is indeed harming me, I could still go out with friends and not harm a single one of them and fulfil the creed. However, if the creed I live by is "do to others what I would want done to me" it's a proactive philosophy - I have to get out and about, and I have to actively do for others what I want done for myself. Presumably Jesus didn't have sado-masochists in mind who might cut on others because that is what they would want people to do to them.

In any case, the point is that in order to do to others, I need to DO something. Sitting back passively and "not harming" them is not sufficient, I have to take a forward step and actively do something good for them. In that sense, I would argue that when applied to a person's life, the Christian creed espoused by Jesus here is superior to the creed espoused by pagan philosophy on the same topic. At least in terms of "doing good".

[willowdreams]

It's also a very passive philosophy. I could conceivably sit in my room 24/7 and harm none. Though you may have a point if you suggest such an insular life is indeed harming me, I could still go out with friends and not harm a single one of them and fulfil the creed. However, if the creed I live by is "do to others what I would want done to me" it's a proactive philosophy - I have to get out and about, and I have to actively do for others what I want done for myself. Presumably Jesus didn't have sado-masochists in mind who might cut on others because that is what they would want people to do to them.

In any case, the point is that in order to do to others, I need to DO something. Sitting back passively and "not harming" them is not sufficient, I have to take a forward step and actively do something good for them. In that sense, I would argue that when applied to a person's life, the Christian creed espoused by Jesus here is superior to the creed espoused by pagan philosophy on the same topic. At least in terms of "doing good".

the point is, you do not have to be christian to teach morals and that it is wrong to harm others.

Christianity is not 'on the top' of goody two shoes here.

I am not of ANY faith, yet I would not willfully harm others or willfully do what i feel is wrong. Why? Because to be BLUNT, I see this as our ONLY life. When we die, it is done for us.

I want a happy life, as happy as possible, if it is my ONLY life then in turn i feel it is YOUR only life, if i do not want to be miserable, unhappy.. they i would not want to be part of making you miserable and unhappy. It is your only life.

I have zero faith in any being out there that could be a deity, nor do I believe in an 'afterlife'

Yet my kids were raised with morals/values/integrity.

Religion does not hold the monopoly, not really. It used to, but now it is beginning to take the back seat. Plus as moral as pple want to make religion, much abuse happens due to religion (that has to be claimed as well). We can claim it is individual groups translating things badly/wrong, but religion permits it, allows it.

So it need to claim the negative as well. Even the bible promotes giving yoru virgin daughters to townspple to be raped.. rather then let strangers staying in your home be raped.

You have the good and the bad of all worlds, so for this topic, i firmly believe that religion needs removed from the equation of excuses.

Criteria needs set, and religion not be permitted to break that criteria.