64 replies to this topic

[R4z3rsPar4d0x]

The real Question is why would god do these things at all. I mean sure he has the power but somethings still not adding up to me

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

R4z3rsPar4d0x, on 26 September 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

The real Question is why would god do these things at all. I mean sure he has the power but somethings still not adding up to me

Kicks and giggles?
It's got to be hard being God and not having anyone listen to you.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

the L, on 26 September 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

So is it all determinized then? Gods knew future events. How if we have free will?

Have you ever seen the TV series Star Trek: Deep Space Nine? Well in that there are these "might as well call them gods" beings called the Prophets, all of time and space are the same to them with one small problem - there is no "past" or "future" to them, just the "now", it takes a character called Sisko to explain the idea of "progression" to them via the metaphor of a game of baseball (ie people taking turns implies an order to existence).
God is like the Prophets, everything that is, was, will be and sometimes isn't to be are known to Him.

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Maybe Agca give up. Or why God didnt visit Stalin, Agca and Hitler?

Who's to say He didn't? There are none so deaf as those who will not hear to coin a phrase.

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Why Francisco didn’t hear Madonna?

Because he was a metaphor for humanity - they all were. The skeptic, the believer and the fence-sitter.

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Why Francisco and Jacinta died from influenza if that was God why it didnt save them?

because we all have a time to live, and a time to die. Some of us are butterflies, and some elephants.

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What do you say about connection of anniversary of first contact in Fatima and assassination attempt on Pope?

Falls into one of three camps - coincidence, planned by God or planned by someone else.

[Ron Jeremy]

Interdimensional prankster? Heh.

[Rlyeh]

R4z3rsPar4d0x, on 26 September 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

The real Question is why would god do these things at all. I mean sure he has the power but somethings still not adding up to me

Because curing cancer is boring.

[R4z3rsPar4d0x]

Wearer of Hats, on 27 September 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Kicks and giggles?
It's got to be hard being God and not having anyone listen to you.

Even so this is God where talking about he could be out creating other life in the universe couldnt he. And I would think he would have angels to listen to him

[R4z3rsPar4d0x]

Rlyeh, on 27 September 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Because curing cancer is boring.

That or he knows mankind will eventually come up with a cure for cancer all on there own.

[CRIPTIC CHAMELEON]

It was mass hysteria topped with swamp gas and storm cloud shapes, flock of geese, weather balloon etc etc with mass hallucinations , mystery solved.  

[R4z3rsPar4d0x]

CRIPTIC CHAMELEON, on 27 September 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

It was mass hysteria topped with swamp gas and storm cloud shapes, flock of geese, weather balloon etc etc with mass hallucinations , mystery solved.  

I dont understand how a mass of people could have the exact same hallucination

[psyche101]

the L, on 26 September 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....acle_of_the_Sun

Thank you, I did not realise there was 4 articles about the event on Wikipedia, I had only seen the other three.

I was interested in how Pio Scatizzi came managed his evaluation. I see now it is religiously motivated. What the Wikipedia article omits is this part

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The above-mentioned solar phenomena were not noted in any observatory. Impossible that they should escape the notice of so many astronomers and indeed the other inhabitants of the hemisphere. It must then be admitted that there is no question of an astronomical or meteorological phenomenon as we have already said. We are thus confronted with an inescapable dilemma. Either all the observers in Fatima were collectively deceived and erred in their testimony, or we must suppose an extra-natural intervention. Given the indubitable reference to God, and the general context of the story, it seems that we must attribute to Him alone the most obvious and colossal miracle of history.

LINK

I think he is overstating this for a start, how is the most obvious and colossal event in history, even the fable he refers to?

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Joshua 10:13
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

I think that cuts the mustard as an equally magnificent claim? Or what about the miracle of Calanda, a bloke grew his leg back!! After it had been cut of 2 1/2 years!

ET is not here, Deities were positively identified. That's the thing, to shoehorn ET into this one, ET has to be Jesus and Mary. Religion has had a stronghold on the minds of men for centuries, as such , it seems likely that people will have religious experiences when It has been drummed into minds for 2,000+ years. That has to have some sort of effect.

[Sakari]

[psyche101]

R4z3rsPar4d0x, on 27 September 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

I dont understand how a mass of people could have the exact same hallucination

It's an interesting question, and I think different people might have differing reasons, but in many cases, people are just hoping for something more to better their lives, and a strong belief can be visualised. There are many examples of mass hallucination other than the Fatima event:



Notable cases

[edit]Tanganyika laughter epidemic (1962)

The Tanganyika laughter epidemic began on January 30, 1962, at a mission-run boarding school for girls in Kashasha, Tanzania. The laughter started with three girls and spread haphazardly throughout the school, affecting 95 of the 159 pupils, aged 12–18.^[7][8] Symptoms lasted from a few hours to 16 days in those affected. The teaching staff were not affected but reported that students were unable to concentrate on their lessons. The school was forced to close down on March 18, 1962.^[9]
After the school was closed and the students were sent home, the epidemic spread to Nshamba, a village that was home to several of the girls.^[9] In April and May, 217 people had laughing attacks in the village, most of them being school children and young adults. The Kashasha school was reopened on May 21, only to be closed again at the end of June. In June, the laughing epidemic spread to Ramashenye girls’ middle school, near Bukoba, affecting 48 girls. Another outbreak occurred in Kanyangereka and two nearby boys schools were closed.^[7]
[edit]Blackburn, England (1965)

In October 1965 at a girls' school in Blackburn, several girls complained of dizziness.^[10] Some fainted. Within a couple of hours, 85 girls from the school were rushed by ambulance to a nearby hospital after fainting. Symptoms included swooning, moaning, chattering of teeth, hyperpnea, andtetany.^[10]
A medical analysis of the event about one year later found that outbreaks began among the 14-year-olds, but that the heaviest incidence moved to the youngest age groups.^[10] There was no evidence of pollution of food or air.^[10] The younger girls proved more susceptible, but disturbance was more severe and lasted longer in the older girls.^[10] Using the Eysenck Personality Inventory, those affected had higher scores for extroversion and neuroticism.^[10] It was considered that the epidemic was hysterical, that a previous polio epidemic had rendered the population emotionally vulnerable, and that a three-hour parade, producing 20 faints on the day before the first outbreak, had been the specific trigger.^[10]
[edit]Malaysia (1970s-80s)

Mass hysteria has occurred in Malaysia from the 1970s to the 1980s. It affects school-age girls and young women working in factories. The local explanation has been that these girls and young women are affected by "spirits".^{[11][12][13][14]}
[edit]West Bank fainting epidemic (1983)

The 1983 West Bank fainting epidemic was a series of incidents in March 1983 in which 943 Palestinian teenage girls, mostly schoolgirls, and a small number of IDF women soldiers fainted or complained of feeling nauseous in the West Bank. Israel was accused of using "chemical warfare" to sterilize West Bank women while IDF sources speculated that a toxic substance had been employed by Palestinian militants to stir up unrest^[15] but investigators concluded that even if some "environmental irritant" had originally been present, the wave of complaints was ultimately a product of mass hysteria. This conclusion was supported by a Palestinian health official, who said that while 20% of the early cases may have been caused by the inhalation of some kind of gas, the remaining 80% were psychosomatic.^{[16][medical citation needed]}
[edit]"Strawberries With Sugar virus" (2006)

In May 2006, an outbreak of the so-dubbed "Morangos com Açúcar Virus" (Strawberries With Sugar virus) was reported in Portuguese schools, named after the popular teen girl's show Morangos com Açúcar (Strawberries With Sugar). 300 or more students at 14 schools reported similar symptoms to those experienced by the characters in a then recent episode where a life-threatening virus affected the school depicted in the show.^{[17][18][medical citation needed]} Symptoms of the "virus" included rashes, difficulty breathing, and dizziness. The perceived outbreak forced some schools to temporarily close. The Portuguese National Institute for Medical Emergency eventually dismissed the illness as mass hysteria.^{[17][18][medical citation needed]}
[edit]Mexico City (2007)

In 2007 near Chalco, a working-class suburb of Mexico City, mass hysteria resulted in a massive outbreak of unusual symptoms suffered by adolescent female students at Children's Village School, a Catholic boarding-school.^[19][20] The afflicted students had difficulty walking and were feverish and nauseated.
[edit]Tanzania (2008)

In 2008 in Tanzania, about 20 female school pupils began to faint in a schoolroom, collapsing to the floor and losing consciousness, while others after witnessing this sobbed, yelled and ran around the school. A local education officer was quoted in news reports saying that such events are "very common here".^{[2][medical citation needed]}
[edit]Brunei (2010)

In April and May 2010, incidents of mass hysteria occurred at two all-girls secondary schools in Brunei.^{[21][medical citation needed]} The phenomena caused a wave of panic among many parents, educators, and members of the community. Some of the students affected by the phenomenon claimed to have been possessed by spirits, or jinn, displaying histrionic symptoms such as screaming, shaking, and crying.
[edit]LeRoy, New York (2011-12)

In late 2011, 12 high school girls developed Tourette-like symptoms. Their school was tested for toxins, and all other factors for their symptoms were ruled out. The case, and some of the girls and their parents gained national media attention. In January 2012, several more students and a 36-year-old adult female came forward with similar symptoms. They were all diagnosed with conversion disorder.<sup>[22][23][medical citation needed]


LINK</sup>

[Mantis914]

A similar event took place back in 1988, in all places... Lubbock, TX!   My brother and several friends of mine all went to that as it was an all day "event"?  There were several thousands of people there also and several said the same thing about the sun moving and "dancing" across the sky.  One thing was for sure, people were able to stare at the sun unaffected for long periods of time and the sun in August is quite unforgiving in our parts.  There were several Polaroids taken that day and some weird images with a doorway did surface because I saw them on the news that night and in 1988 there was no Photoshop unless you truly believe in time travelers.  I didn't go for some reason or another but later on, I lived about one block away from St. John Neumann's.  I don't know about all the miracles as far as healing go but I know a lot of people said they saw the sun do some weird things.

http://www.lubbockce...rs/081008.shtml

[Sakari]

Mantis914, on 28 September 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

A similar event took place back in 1988, in all places... Lubbock, TX!   My brother and several friends of mine all went to that as it was an all day "event"?  There were several thousands of people there also and several said the same thing about the sun moving and "dancing" across the sky.  One thing was for sure, people were able to stare at the sun unaffected for long periods of time and the sun in August is quite unforgiving in our parts.  There were several Polaroids taken that day and some weird images with a doorway did surface because I saw them on the news that night and in 1988 there was no Photoshop unless you truly believe in time travelers.  I didn't go for some reason or another but later on, I lived about one block away from St. John Neumann's.  I don't know about all the miracles as far as healing go but I know a lot of people said they saw the sun do some weird things.

http://www.lubbockce...rs/081008.shtml

Photoshop founders started work in 1987, first version, 1990......

There may have not been " photoshop ", but there have all ways been ways to edit photographs, even when photographs were invented.

[Mantis914]

Sakari, on 28 September 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Photoshop founders started work in 1987, first version, 1990......

There may have not been " photoshop ", but there have all ways been ways to edit photographs, even when photographs were invented.

From what I understood, but this is coming from a memory of some... 25 years ago on the news report, the people interviewed were there all day.  I don't know either way if it could've been a double exposure or whatever method photographic fraud is committed.  The really interesting part of this whole story is:  why Lubbock, TX?   I could understand all the other exotic locations in the world but why there?  I had been spending years trying to find ways OUT of there...