1360 replies to this topic

[conspiracybeliever]

ColoradoParanormal, on 24 March 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

I'm not too sure why this has become an ethnic issue? Seems equality gets the boot the minute something negative happens to a person of race, otherwise it's "we're all equal, we have the same rights don't look at skin color we're all the same until something happens to us then it's automatically a race issue" when if it were TRUE equality there shouldn't be the questing of race at all. It's simply a man killed another man. No race involved. Especially in this case, it wasn't a hate crime, it wasn't racially motivated.

Are we suggesting because of the fact that he's African American means he was attacked for that reason and innocent? I do believe Zimmerman should be held absolutely accountable and face trial for this.  However, Zimmerman didn't make it a race issue. The 911 operator asked what race the suspect was.  Zimmerman didn't say " There's some black guy up to no good!" or anything of the like. It wasn't until the operator asked what race he was that it was brought to light.

Listening to the 911 recordings, I believe Zimmerman was telling the truth when the other gentleman came at him with his hand in his waste band etc. When Zimmerman pursued after him, I believe he was attacked as well. However, Zimmerman should NOT have pursued! He also had absolutely NO reason to use deadly force.  Zimmerman should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, for murder? No, I don't believe so. However, manslaughter, wreckless endangerment and much more, yes.

YES!!!!   And I don't care what color any of them are. This is the case!

Edited by conspiracybeliever, 24 March 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[Farmer77]

See im not so sure its as cut and dry as everyone thinks. This is pretty compelling evidence that perhaps Trayvon attacked George.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Quote

Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.

That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.

[ColoradoParanormal]

lightly, on 22 March 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

The guy is a racist ..  he is also violently dangerous.  Lock the fool up.

Not sure how I missed this.... How can you make such claims? Where did anything that was mentioned or replay of the 911 recordings suggest Zimmerman was racist? Refer to my previous post regarding this situation. Because a white man killed a black man, he's automatically racist?? Nothing erks me quite like the obligatory race card being played any time something happens to a person of race. I understand and agree there actually ARE hate crimes that happen and they truly need to be dealt with harshly, and not to just Blacks, Hispanics, Asians but increasingly white people as well, however this wasn't the case in this situation.

[ColoradoParanormal]

bigtroutak, on 24 March 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

See im not so sure its as cut and dry as everyone thinks. This is pretty compelling evidence that perhaps Trayvon attacked George.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Yes, thank you for pointing this out. Hopefully Zimmerman gets charged with something equal to his actions, which in this case are bad judgement and over-reacting. He exhibited bad judgement by chasing Trayvon and not allowing local law enforcement to do their jobs, as well as he over reacted when using deadly force. However, I don't believe he wasn't completely justified by protecting himself.  As I said, manslaughter, wreckless endangerment would be decent punishments.

[susieice]

bigtroutak, on 24 March 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

See im not so sure its as cut and dry as everyone thinks. This is pretty compelling evidence that perhaps Trayvon attacked George.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Doesn't this "stand your ground" law also apply to Trayvon who, after all, was the one being followed by someone he didn't know in the dark? This Zimmerman doesn't appear to have identified himself in any way or said anything to the teen about why he was being followed. Cut and dry, Zimmerman should not have been carrying a gun. He had no cause to shoot. He should have told the boy he was with a watch group and maybe the kid wouldn't have gotten defensive. Zimmerman was out to make a bust whether it was deserved or not (big hero), which it would have been proven the kid was innocent of any wrongdoing. It isn't illegal to walk to the store after dark. A curfew doesn't even come into play here.

Edited by susieice, 24 March 2012 - 03:51 AM.

[Leonardo]

bigtroutak, on 24 March 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

See im not so sure its as cut and dry as everyone thinks. This is pretty compelling evidence that perhaps Trayvon attacked George.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Not really.

It seems that some of the witnesses did observe a fight (or struggle), but no-one made any statement about who 'attacked' who. Who may have got the upper hand in a resulting fracas does not indicate who was the initial aggressor, either.

The only circumstantial evidence we have regarding who may have been "the aggressor", is the phone conversation records which indicate Zimmerman actively pursued Martin, for no reason other than "he looked suspicious". As far as I am aware, the "Stand Your Ground" law does not cover one's actions if one actively seeks a confrontation.

ColoradoParanormal,

Quote

However, I don't believe he wasn't completely justified by protecting himself.

The "Stand Your Ground" law does not legalise shooting someone just because they are beating you in a fight you started.

I am not saying Zimmerman started a fight, but by pursuing Martin he did assume the role of "aggressor".

Edited by Leonardo, 24 March 2012 - 10:56 AM.

[Myles]

bigtroutak, on 23 March 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

On that note I find it interesting that the media didn't bother to mention the fact that Zimmerman is Hispanic. Not that Hispanics can't be racist, it just made better headlines when we all envisioned George as an angry white guy.

That's a great point.   Until I was able to look into it more I thought a Older white guy shot a 10 year old black kid.

[Myles]

Leonardo, on 24 March 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Not really.

It seems that some of the witnesses did observe a fight (or struggle), but no-one made any statement about who 'attacked' who. Who may have got the upper hand in a resulting fracas does not indicate who was the initial aggressor, either.

The only circumstantial evidence we have regarding who may have been "the aggressor", is the phone conversation records which indicate Zimmerman actively pursued Martin, for no reason other than "he looked suspicious". As far as I am aware, the "Stand Your Ground" law does not cover one's actions if one actively seeks a confrontation.

ColoradoParanormal,



I am not saying Zimmerman started a fight, but by pursuing Martin he did assume the role of "aggressor".

Careful.  What you said here is not good for the prosecution.

[Myles]

lightly, on 22 March 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

The guy is a racist ..  he is also violently dangerous.  Lock the fool up.

These are the kinds of comments and the kind of thinking that makes everything a race issue.  A Hispanic man shot a 17 year old black person.  That is not necessarily a race issue.

[conspiracybeliever]

Myles, on 24 March 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

These are the kinds of comments and the kind of thinking that makes everything a race issue.  A Hispanic man shot a 17 year old black person.  That is not necessarily a race issue.

Actually it very well could be. There are some black people who are extremely racist. Not saying it is but....

[Babe Ruth]

Hopefully the lady prosecutor will bring justice.  Saw her on TV somewhere, and it sounds that way.

Cold-blooded murder is what it was. Such a damn shame!  

[acidhead]

After reading the comments here and elsewhere, with a dash yesterday of Obama's concern for the young man who looked like he "could have been my son"... I repeat what the trusted MSM and federal government's favorite divide and conquer technique is... collectivism.  The collectivists favorite issues are racial divides, sexual preference divides and religious divides. The front page of MSM sites prove this.  They are riddled with these stories at a time when the nation is currently in its 10 year in an undefined war, the economy sucks and rampant voter fraud being committed during the GOP primaries and caucuses.

A crime is a crime regardless the motives.  Motives are for post treatment not determining the verdict. We're all imperfect human beings living together on an imperfect planet... people become fearful, act out in fear and make terrible mistakes and than desperately try to coverup these mistakes there after.   But the collectivists are quick to jump and use their division technique by separating everybody into groups thus creating the issues and sadly more victims.

Edited by acidhead, 24 March 2012 - 07:11 PM.

[conspiracybeliever]

acidhead, on 24 March 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

After reading the comments here and elsewhere, with a dash yesterday of Obama's concern for the young man who looked like he "could have been my son"... I repeat what the trusted MSM and federal government's favorite divide and conquer technique is... collectivism.  The collectivists favorite issues are racial divides, sexual preference divides and religious divides. The front page of MSM sites prove this.  They are riddled with these stories at a time when the nation is currently in its 10 year in an undefined war, the economy sucks and rampant voter fraud being committed during the GOP primaries and caucuses.

A crime is a crime regardless the motives.  Motives are for post treatment not determining the verdict. We're all imperfect human beings living together on an imperfect planet... people become fearful, act out in fear and make terrible mistakes and than desperately try to coverup these mistakes there after.   But the collectivists are quick to jump and use their division technique by separating everybody into groups thus creating the issues and sadly more victims.

I agree with what you are saying. Still a crime is a crime and this was a crime. No matter what color anyone was or is it is still a crime and Zimmerman should be punished. I do have to say if this were my child I would be thinking that my child was murdered and they are saying it is his fault. He was doing nothing wrong. He was murdered. And it's the obsession with crime in this country. And once again the real criminal is walking the streets while the innocent has paid with his life. And it's all entertainment to most. Very sad.

[Myles]

conspiracybeliever, on 24 March 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Actually it very well could be. There are some black people who are extremely racist. Not saying it is but....

I agree that it could be.    But........  The media has already portrayed this as a "white on black" crime.

[lightly]

Quote

lightly, on 22 March 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:
The guy is a racist .. he is also violently dangerous. Lock the fool up.

Myles, on 24 March 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

These are the kinds of comments and the kind of thinking that makes everything a race issue. A Hispanic man shot a 17 year old black person.  That is not necessarily a race issue.

Quote

ColoradoParanormal said:
Not sure how I missed this.... How can you make such claims? Where did anything that was mentioned or replay of the 911 recordings suggest Zimmerman was racist? Refer to my previous post regarding this situation. Because a white man killed a black man, he's automatically racist?? Nothing erks me quite like the obligatory race card being played any time something happens to a person of race. I understand and agree there actually ARE hate crimes that happen and they truly need to be dealt with harshly, and not to just Blacks, Hispanics, Asians but increasingly white people as well, however this wasn't the case in this situation.

You guys are right....  i rushed to judgement based on  things i heard that were not verifiable FACT ..
I can't view, or hear, the video without a lot of hassle.
I heard that zimmerman muttered under his breath on his phone call .. " *****n  C**n "   and   " THEY always get away"   .. which is where i got the impression that he might be racist.
I also heard that zimmerman had been charged in the past with assaulting a police officer.. , which is where i got the impression  that the man might have a tendency for violence, I don't know for a FACT  if that is true either.   Anyway... i was wrong to make assumptions based on flimsy "news"  statements.
  That's a lesson we all should learn.  
   I'm glad to see that the young man's death is at least being looked into now.. instead of casually brushed  aside as a rightful "stand your ground" killing. That bothered me.  Maybe there enough laws on the books without making up new ones to make it easier to kill each other?