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War Plan Red


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#31    Rafterman

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 23 February 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Q

Thanks very much for that fine detail on faked US casualty lists.  To be honest, I have read only bits and pieces of the Northwoods documents, and was not aware of that detail.

If that tactic--false casualty lists--was proposed way back then, it seems logical that the same tactic could be planned and executed regarding the events of 11 September or even Newtown.  IMO that is certainly the case with the "passengers" onboard the "hijacked airliners", and as time goes on 2 months later, it is appearing to be quite possible at Newtown.

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that has some serious issues (I'm trying to phrase that in the nicest way possible).

I personally knew 3 people who lost their lives on 9/11.  And I have friend of a friend relationships with two families who lost their children at Newtown.

Pull your head out of the ground man.  People do evil things and it's not always the bad boogey man gummit doing everything.

Edited by Rafterman, 24 February 2013 - 03:06 PM.

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#32    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 23 February 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

so when someone suggests that some killings may have been faked, you get all indignant.
and when someone shows you actual documented plans to kill people, you get all indignant and assert (without evidence) that those plans were to be fake killings. hilarious.
the anti-truthers seem to have a unshakable religious belief in government benevolence.
Yes, that's right, I think it is cause for indignation if someone suggested that the Govt. had faked the killing of twenty children, I think it would be. it's very funny that you talk about people asserting things without evidence, considering that the entire Conspiracy industry is based on grounds that are so shaky, if not completely imaginary.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#33    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:50 PM

View PostRafterman, on 24 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that has some serious issues (I'm trying to phrase that in the nicest way possible).

I personally knew 3 people who lost their lives on 9/11.  And I have friend of a friend relationships with two families who lost their children at Newtown.

Pull your head out of the ground man.  People do evil things and it's not always the bad boogey man gummit doing everything.

You know two families affected by Sandy Hook? Why haven't you posted in this tread yet? http://www.unexplain...k

Also, why would knowing people who died automatically make you a knowledgable authority on who was the murderer?


#34    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 24 February 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

You know two families affected by Sandy Hook? Why haven't you posted in this tread yet? http://www.unexplain...k

Also, why would knowing people who died automatically make you a knowledgable authority on who was the murderer?
according, it seems, to some theories, the deaths were apparently faked...

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#35    Babe Ruth

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

View PostRafterman, on 24 February 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

I love it when you guys try and prove an unproven theory with an unproven theory.  Funny, last JFK thread around here blamed George Bush.

It took several to do what they did.  Good book about it written by the British barrister William Pepper.  Several +


#36    Babe Ruth

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostRafterman, on 24 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that has some serious issues (I'm trying to phrase that in the nicest way possible).

I personally knew 3 people who lost their lives on 9/11.  And I have friend of a friend relationships with two families who lost their children at Newtown.

Pull your head out of the ground man.  People do evil things and it's not always the bad boogey man gummit doing everything.

I'm glad to hear that Rafterman, but it doesn't really change anything.  Only on 911, the facts are not changed an iota by the fact that you knew 3 persons.  The facts remain what they are--the OCT is a damn lie.


#37    shrooma

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:55 PM

View Postealdwita, on 22 February 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

War Plan Red's ultimate goal was to destroy Britain's ability and bring the British Empire to its knees. Canada was only the start. Eventually, it was planned to destroy all British troops in Canada and the North Atlantic.

http://www.dailymail...al-weapons.html
.
I saw this article some time ago and found it very interesting indeed!
there was also a good CH5 documentary, 'america's secret war' on the subject.
hitler backing us in a war against america?!
with fairweather friends like that, who needs enemi.....
oh.
hang on a minute....

Edited by shrooma, 24 February 2013 - 10:03 PM.

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#38    DONTEATUS

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:57 PM

Rafterman talking to BabeRuth is like talking to a Brick wall. ITs a freedom of speech I know in All most all Forums,But When people spew dribble and are not kind to the other members Thats not nice at all .
I too had a friend in the Towers that day,now gone forever,a family without there Dad,and wife without there Husband. So Sad. I watched it that morning and watched the second Air liner go into the Building Live real time.
THeres no excuse to people that claim anything but what happened that day ! TWO AIRLINERS CRASHED INTO THE TOWERS ! What part of the truth do these people not Get ? ITs actually the most Sad thing Ever !

This is a Work in Progress!

#39    shrooma

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:00 PM

funny, I thought this thread was about 'war plan red', not about conspiracy theories.
try to stay on topic eh guys?

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if you fail to grasp the sublety, then don't whine on due to your lack of understanding.

#40    redhen

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:01 PM

View Postshrooma, on 24 February 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

funny, I thought this thread was about 'war plan red', not about conspiracy theories.
try to stay on topic eh guys?

I started this thread with the link to the War Plan Red documentary because it is a very good example of some of the wild, outrageous plans are that conjured up in private think tanks and government defense departments. These people are paid to think up all kinds of threatening scenarios and opportunistic plans (sounds like a dream job to me). But just because there's a plan or a memo doesn't mean it's going to come to fruition.

I once came across a secret document (now declassified) that advocated for using nuclear weapons to "exploit the Canadian tar sands". Yeah, that one sat on the shelf too.

So yes, this thread does concern conspiracy theories. Governments, even democratic ones, conspire to do all kinds of whacky things. But eventually cooler (saner) heads prevail.


#41    Little Fish

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:43 AM

View Postredhen, on 24 February 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

Governments, even democratic ones, conspire to do all kinds of whacky things. But eventually cooler (saner) heads prevail.
do you think the holocaust and stalin's purges were faked then? or maybe just happened by accident?


#42    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:45 AM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 February 2013 - 12:43 AM, said:

do you think the holocaust and stalin's purges were faked then? or maybe just happened by accident?
is there any analogy there with "False Flag" conspiracies? Both Hitler & Stalin were quite open about their intentions; Stalin with his Show trials (which may not have been fair judicially, but were done publicly, against people who in his view were "enemies of the State"; the idea was to publicise it as much as possible. And hitler actually wrote a bestselling book that set out his plans and his, for want of a better word, thinking.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#43    Q24

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:17 AM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 February 2013 - 12:43 AM, said:

do you think the holocaust and stalin's purges were faked then? or maybe just happened by accident?

Yes, apparently redhen thinks that the Reichstag operation, the Gleiwitz incident, the Holocaust and perhaps even WW2 never happened... because you know, “cooler (saner) heads prevail”.  Yet in the West the Nazi government was democratically elected and war thought justified by the German people.  Of course, America a mere sixty odd years later was somehow immune to a warmonger leadership (despite that the roots of Neoconservatism can be traced to the Nazi era).  Fortunately so, otherwise we could have ended up with some crazy wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on our hands based on false pretext.  Chasing terrorists and WMDs – pathetic – even worse excuses than Operation Himmler.

Redhen’s whole argument here is like witnessing a war between America and the UK then claiming it cannot happen because War Plan Red was just contingency planning, for should the need arise.  Even then, Operation Northwoods was more than that, a military proposal for immediate action, which reached the final hurdle of approval...

View PostRafterman, on 24 February 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

View PostQ24, on 22 February 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Northwoods was shelved only due to the intervention of JFK, the final hurdle.

Needless to say, he was not president on 9/11.

Bush was.

JFK/Bush... big difference, you understand?

And there it is folks.  The REAL reason behind all of this and why 95% of the 9/11 stuff has died down since 2009.

Sure, because in 2001 a Neocon government came to power, unlike JFK who did much to contain CIA and U.S. military aggression, and in my opinion unlike Obama who is not quite on the same page as Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#44    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:58 AM

View PostQ24, on 25 February 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yes, apparently redhen thinks that the Reichstag operation, the Gleiwitz incident,
All of which (plus operation Northwoods) were (I really don't understand why the Conspiracy industry really doesn't seem to understand this) on an absolutely different level entirely to 9/11. No one was killed in the Reichstag fire; indeed, there's a school of thought now that it may not have been a False Flag at all and that van der Lubbe may well have actually caused it entirely off his own bat, and Hitler leapt on it as just the opportunity he was looking for; the Gleiwitz incident (a Polish incursion over the border being faked to justify war against Poland) was on an infinitesimally smaller scale than the supposed enormities of the Bush administration. What we're asked to believe is that this means that the Neocons were many, many times worse than Hitler, in that they weren't content to just stage a few faked incidents, or even to set fire to a major public building when no one was around; no, they had to destroy a major public building in its entirety (and use Thermite or whatever, since just flying airliners into it wouldn't be sufficient) and kill thousands of their own citizens, in order to justify what they wanted to do. Do you really not see that operation Northwoods, or the Reichstag, or Gleiwitz, are no comparison at all with 9.11, and really can't be used in order to say that there are precedents?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#45    Little Fish

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:02 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

is there any analogy there with "False Flag" conspiracies? Both Hitler & Stalin were quite open about their intentions; Stalin with his Show trials (which may not have been fair judicially, but were done publicly, against people who in his view were "enemies of the State"; the idea was to publicise it as much as possible. And hitler actually wrote a bestselling book that set out his plans and his, for want of a better word, thinking.
but i was wondering what redhen thinks about it since he claimed that cooler heads always prevail. surprised you didn't take him to task over his statement since you clearly think it false.

furthermore, you accept that governments will kill their people, but they won't lie about it?
and there was me thinking that governments lie all of the time, sheesh do i need to rethink things!

Edited by Little Fish, 25 February 2013 - 11:14 AM.





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