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Atlantis was in West Africa

diodorus amazons lybia atlantis west africa

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#1    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

Atlantis is island in ocean beyond Pillars of Heracles . It was bigger then Libya and Asia Minor combined. Island that sank in single day.Thats Atlantis story in short after Egyptian priest of Sais told the story to Solon.
I will start from Diodorus, Heracles pillars in Lybia and how Amazons attacked Atlaneans.
Amazons first attacked the Atlanteans according to Diodorus Siculus. Amazons uneder Queen Myrina even conquer their capital with 30000 footsoldiers and 3000 cavalry. After Atlantis fell Amazon attack Gorgons. So either  Atlantis was between Amazons and Gorgons or Amazon were in between.  We know that Gorgons were on West Ocean. We even know that Gorgon was monster created by Gaia. Now if Gorgons were bordering with Atlantis then they must been around Senagal, Marocco,western Sahara, Mauritania. So maybe Atlantis wasnt island. Maybe was peninsula in Africa or Island on lake inside west africa. Maybe they ruled over Lybia and territory bigger as Asia Minor. Also we are told that Amazons capital Hespera was in the west  in the marsh Tritonis.

In Greek mythology, the Hesperides are nymphs who tend a blissful garden in a far western corner of the world, located near the Atlas mountains in Libya, or on a distant blessed island at the edge of the encircling Oceanus, the world-ocean.According to the Sicilian Greek poet Stesichorus, in his poem the "Song of Geryon", and the Greek geographer Strabo, in his book Geographika (volume III), the Hesperides are in Tartessos, a location placed in the south of Iberia (Spain). The Euboean Greek poet Hesiod said that the ancient name of Cádiz was Erytheia, another name for the Hesperides. Others situate the gardens of Hesperides in the region located between Tangier (formerly Tinjis) and Larache in Morocco.

Also I dont know origin of name Atlas but its similar to Atlantis. Anyway Amazons conquer Lybian tribes and found city Cherronesus. And then push foward to Atlanteans.  So we have Lybia,Atlas, Amazons,Gorgons all pointed out that Atlantis was in west Africa.  Anyway Diodorus wrote us that Amazons were in Lybia and their city was called Hespera in marsh that was near the ocean which surrounds the earth. Besides Heracles set up his pillars in Lybia. And after battle with Athene they settle in Scythia.  I belive Atlantis was in Africa. It wasnt Island but rather peninusula or maybe it was Island on lake.  Sahara was once forest and full of lakes. They must not have been on Island because in time of Horus when Amazons already conquered Atlantis there wasnt any naval power. Also from Herodotus story we know that Amazons didnt knew how to sail.

Diodorus:
…Amazons were entirely destroyed by Heracles, when he visited the regions to the west and set up his pillars in Libya…
The first people against whom they(Amazons) advanced, according to the tale, was the Atlantians, the most civilized men among the inhabitants of those regions, who dwelt in a prosperous country and possessed great cities; it was among them, we are told, that mythology places the birth of the god…
…The story is also told that the marsh Tritonis disappeared from sight in the course of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay towards the ocean were torn asunder. As for Myrina, the account continues, she visited the larger part of Libya, and passing over into Egypt she struck a treaty of friendship with Horus, the son of Isis, who was king of Egypt at that time, and then, after making war to the end upon the Arabians and slaying many of them, she subdued Syria;…

Since Myrina empire strech even Island Lesbos and since he listen Atlanteans and attack Gorgons could it be that when Plato said it was big as Lybia and Asia ment that Atlanteans were on court of Myrina. Or maybe they were like Druids in Celts, Mandarians in Chinese. In the end Thracians defeated Amazons sothey return to their home of Lybia. After that Heracles destroy Amazon lands and set up pillars there. So  west of Pillars is west of Lybia. West of Lybia is west Africa. Could it be that men of Atlantis were philosophers, scientists and that women were warriors-Amazons?
Myrina was in Egypt when Horus ruled. So when exactly Horus ruled? Can we trust Diodorus? He doesnt lie when he spoke about Thracians and Scythians why would he lied about Atlanteans? Did we have big animals in Lybia? Egyptians met Amazons so they probably heard about Atlanteans. If Atlanteans themselves didnt been in diplomacy mission in Egypt. Amazon marsh was in west bordering with Ethiopians (Gk. Aithiops, perhaps from aithein "to burn" + ops "face" (cf. aithops "fiery-looking," later "sunburned") and there was mountain which Greeks called Atlas. Plato stroy matches with Diodorus. They conquer Lybia and minor Asia. They were destroyed by some catasthrophic event. They made war with Greece and loose. Everything match. Diodorus also tells us that …
The Atlantides were also called ‘nymphai’ because the natives of that land addressed their women by the common appellation of ‘nymphe.’
So were those Nymphai Amazons? In Greek mythology, the Hesperides are nymphs.

Solon heard story about Atlantis from Egyptian priests. Solon passed it to great grandfather of Critias -Dropides. Dropides told story to his son Critias grandfather of our Critias. It was from this old Critias that he learned about Atlantis. But Plato wasnt only one. Plato wrote dialogues with Timaeus and Critias where is Atlantis mentioned. Ammianus Marcellinus the Greek historian wrote about the destruction of Atlantis.Caesar when crossed river Rubicon said : Dice is cast. In fact he quoted Greek Menandar. We know that because Plutarch say so. Well Plutarch also say about lost continent . Basques ,Guals ,Guanches belive that their ancestors lived in island in Atlantic. However we know that Gaunches came from North Africa same as Berbers. Is that once more connection with West Africa? Some say that Basque language is linked with native languages from North America. How come? What about Guanche language? Many tried to connect eastern Atala with Atlantis.Oera Linda Book called Atland land that was sunk. Aztecs myths tells about origin of them is called Aztlan.  I think that___(say whatever you want) could not notice language similarites. As I heard that Egyptians wrote that Seapeople invade them becaus their land sunk. People connect Thera eruption  and how it influence Plato. Well we know that isnt true. Eruption didnt destroy Minoans. They lived more then century afterward. Sceptics laugh on though that Illiad was based on true stories until one day Schliemann didnt actually found it. To me bseide Gobekli Tepe and Varna and few others was most important founding because it prooves us that in myths there are true stories.  As Tolkien said: History became legend. Legend became myth. But Troy isnt one case. We can found many many other myths which were prooven to be truth. Herodotus wrote about civilization beyond pillars. Tibetians spoke about Atala island in west that sunk. Aelian in his work on Animals said that people who live at Atlantic ocean spoke about Atlantis king which can traced their descent back to the god Poseidon . Pliny the Elder also spoke about Island in front of west Africa called Atlantis. Herodotus in Histories ocean now called the Atlantic he calls "the Atlantis Sea". He describes a tribe of "Atlanteans" living in North Africa before Plato. The tomb of Myrine is mentioned in the Iliad and Iliad isnt fitcion. Achilles killed Amazon Ainia in Trojan war. When Achilles was choosen to fight with her you know that she was good. Greeks knew how dangerous they can be. From time when Timiades from Heracles army fell of Amazon hand.
Pitane and Priene, two commanders in Myrina's army, after whom the cities of Pitane (Aeolis) and Priene were named
What about Tartessos? It was close to west Africa. Could it be colony? Its mentioned in Bible. Greek poet Stesichorus  called it home of Amazons in other words . Its sunken city in the end. Greek Strabo tells su that 2600 years before him people sail to Tartessos. It was said that they have records 6000 years before that time. It is said that first alphabet originated from Tartessos. Tartessos isnt far from Morocco. Biblical Tarshish (which he believes is the same as Tartessos) was Atlantis according to many reasearchers. Anyway Tatessos fits far better then Thera Crete Santorini idea. Tartessos must been colony if not colony bypass product of cultures as well those in Canaries. Minoans were known to Egyptians so priest when telling story about Atlantis to Solomon would say Minoans.

Diodorus:
…Phoenicians were not the first to make the discovery of letters; but that they did no more than change the form of the letters; whereupon the majority of mankind made use of the way of writing them as the Phoenicians devised…

Tacitus:
"The Phoenicians gained the reputation of inventing a form of writing, which they merely received." (Annals, 11.14)

Diodorus said that 1000 years ago ( maybe that 1000 was prular) Phoenicians found large island in Atlantic ocean, several days sailing from Pillars of Hercules and western of Africa.
Quote: It was from this continental island that Phoenicians obtained the element of their phonetic alphabet.

Strabo:
"They are the most cultivated of all the Iberians; they employ the art of writing, and have written books containing memorials of ancient times, and also poems and laws set in verse, for which they claim an antiquity of six thousand years." (Strabo, Geography, Bk. iii).

So to me everythinf fits perfectly. We have historical account and archaeological. Phoencians did invent alphabet as we orthodox historians claim but they base that conclusion on archaeological dana completly ignoring historical accounts. Diodorus Siculus is known for the monumental universal history Bibliotheca historica (60-30 BC).Strabo, Tacitus…All point in one direction.

Diodorus stressed out that he is copying older works so they will never been lost. So whos work he is copying?

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#2    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

Diodorus:
Book II, 45,46 - General history of the Amazons
45:
Now in the country along the Thermodon river, as the account goes, the sovereignty was in the hands of a people among whom the women held the supreme power, and its women performed the services of war just as did the men. Of these women one, who possessed the royal authority, was remarkable for her prowess in war and her bodily strength, and gathering together an army of women she drilled it in the use of arms and subdued in war some of the neighbouring peoples. And since her valour and fame increased, she made war upon people after people of neighbouring lands, and as the tide of her fortune continued favourable, she was so filled with pride that she gave herself the appellation of Daughter of Ares; but to the men she assigned the spinning of wool and such other domestic duties as belong to women. Laws also were established by her, by virtue of which she led forth the women to contests of war, but upon the men she fastened humiliation and slavery. Ans as for their children, they mutilated both the legs and the arms of the males, incapacitating them in this way for the demands of war, and in the case of the females they seared the right breast that it might not project when their bodies matured and be in the way; and it is for this reason that the nation of the Amazons received the appellation it bears. In general, this queen was remarkable for her intelligence and ability as a general, and she founded a great city named Themiscyra at the mouth of the Thermodon river and built their a famous palace; furthermore, in her campaigns she devoted much attention to military discipline and at the outset subdued all her neighbours as far as the Tanais river. And this queen, they say, accomplished the deeds which have been mentioned, and fighting brilliantly in a certain battle she ended her life heroically.
46:
The daughter of this queen, the account continues, on succeeding to the throne emulated the excellence of her mother, and even surpassed her in some particular deeds. For instance, she exercised in the chase the maidens from their earliest girlhood and drilled them daily in the arts of war, and she also established magnificent festivals both to Ares and to the Artemis who is called Tauropolus. Then she campaigned against the territory lying beyond the Tanais and subdued all the peoples one after another as far as Thrace; and returning to her native land with much booty she built magnificent shrines to the deities mentioned above, and by reason of her kindly rule over her subjects received from them the greatest approbation. She also campaigned on the other side and subdued a large part of Asia and extended her power as far as Syria. After the death of this queen, as their account continues, women of her family, succeeding to the queenship from time to time, ruled with distinction and advanced the nation of the Amazons in both power and fame. And many generations after these events, when the excellence of these women had been noised abroad through the whole inhabited world, they say that Heracles, the son of Alcmene and Zeus, was assigned by Eurystheus the Labour of securing the girdle of Hippolyte the Amazon. Consequently he embarked on this campaign, and coming off victorious in a great battle he not only cut to pieces the army of Amazons but also, after taking captive Hippolyte together with her girdle, completey crushed this nation. Consequently the neighbouring barbarians, despising the weakness of this people and remembering against them their past injuries, wages continuous wars against the nation to such a degree that they left in existence not even the name of the race of the Amazons. For a few years after the campaign of Heracles against them, they say, during the time of the Trojan War, Penthesileia, the queen of the surviving Amazons, who was a daughter of Ares and had slain one of her kindred, fled from her native land because of the sacrilege. And fighting as an ally of the Trojans after the death of Hector she slew many of the Greeks, and after gaining distinction in the struggle she ended her life heroically at the hands of Achilles. Now they say that Penthesileia was the last of the Amazons to win distinction for bravery and that for the future the race diminished more and more and then lost all its strength; consequently in later times, whenever any writers recount their prowess, men consider the ancient stories about the Amazons to be fictitious tales.

Book III, 52-55 - History of the Libyan Amazons
52:
But now that we have examined these matters it will be fitting, in connection with the regions we have just mentioned, to discuss the account which history records of the Amazons who were in Libya in ancient times. For the majority of mankind believe that the only Amazons were those who are reported to have dwelt in the neighbourhood of the Thermodon river on the Pontus; but the truth is otherwise, since the Amazons of Libya were much earlier in point of time and accomplished notable deeds. Now we are not unaware that to many who read this account the history of this people will appear to be a thing unheard of and entirely strange; for since the race of these Amazons disappeared entirely many generations before the Trojan War, whereas the women about the Thermodon river were in their full vigour a little before that time, it is not without reason that the latter people, who were also better known, should have inherited the fame of the earlier, who are entirely unknown to most men because of the lapse of time. For our part, however, since we find that many early poets and historians, and not a few of the later ones as well, have made mention of them, we shall endeavour to recount their deeds in summary, following the account of Dionysius, who composed a narrative about the Argonauts and Dionysus, and also about many other things which took place in most ancient times. Now there have been in Libya a number of races of women who were warlike and greatly admired for their manly vigour; for instance, tradition tells us of the race of the Gorgons, against whom, as the account is given, Perseus made war, a race distinguished for its valour; for the fact that it was the son of Zeus, the mightiest Greek of his day, who accomplished the campaign against these women, and that this was his greatest Labour may be taken by any man as proof of both the pre-eminence and the power of the women we have mentioned. Furthermore, the manly prowess of those of whom we are now about to write presupposes an amazing pre-eminence when compared with the nature of the women of our day.
53:
We are told, namely, that there was once in the western parts of Libya, on the bounds of the inhabited world, a race which was ruled by women and followed a manner of life unlike that which prevails among us. For it was the custom among them that the women should practise the arts of war and be required to serve in the army for a fixed period, during which time they maintained their virginity; then, when the years of their service in the field had expired, they went in to the men for the procreation of children, but they kept in their hands the administration of the magistracies and of all the affairs of the state. The men, however, like our married women, spent their days about the house, carrying out the orders which were given them by their wives; and they took no part in military campaigns or in office or in the exercise of free citizenship in the affairs of the community by virtue of which they might became presumptuous and rise up against the women. When their children were born the babies were turned over to the men, who brought them up on milk and such cooked foods as were appropriate to the age of the infants; and if it happened that a girl was born, its breasts were seared that they might not develop at the time of maturity; for they thought that the breasts, as they stood out from the body, were no small hindrance in warfare; and in fact it is because they have been deprived of their breasts that they are called by the Greeks Amazons. As mythology relates, their home was an island which, because it was in the west, was called Hespera, and it lay in the marsh Tritonis. This marsh was near the ocean which surrounds the earth and received its name from a certain river Triton which emptied into it; and this marsh was also near Ethiopia and that mountain by the shore of the ocean which is the highest of those in the vicinity and impinges upon the ocean and is called by the Greeks Atlas. The island mentioned above was of great size and full of fruit-bearing trees of every kind, from which the natives secured their food. It contained also a multitude of flocks and herds, namely, of goats and sheep, from which the possessors received milk and meat for their sustenance; but grain the nation used not at all because the use of this fruit of the earth had not yet been discovered among them. The Amazons, then, the account continues, being a race superior in valour and eager for war, first fo all subdued all the cities on the island except the one called Mene, which was considered to be sacred and was inhabited by Ethiopean Ichthyophagi, and was also subject to great eruptions of fire and possessed a multitude of the precious stones which the Greeks call anthrax, sardion, and smaragdos; and after this they subdued many of the neighbouring Libyans and nomad tribes, and founded within the marsh Tritonis a great city which they named Cherronesus after its shape.
54:
Setting out from the city of Cherronesus, the account continues, the Amazons embarked upon great ventures, a longing having come over them to invade many parts of the inhabited world. The first people against whom they advanced, according to the tale, was the Atlantians, the most civilized men among the inhabitants of those regions, who dwelt in a prosperous country and possessed great cities; it was among them, we are told, that mythology places the birth of the gods, in the regions which lie along the shore of the ocean, in this respect agreeing with those among the Greeks who relate legends, and about this we shall speak in detail a little later. Now the queen of the Amazons, Myrina, collected, it is said, an army of thirty thousand foot-soldiers and three thousand cavalry, since they favoured to an unusual degree the use of cavalry in their wars. For protective devices they used the skins of large snakes, since Libya contains such animals of incredible size, and for offensive weapons, swords and lances; they also used bows and arrows, with which they struck not only when facing the enemy but also when in flight, by shooting backwards at their pursuers with good effect. Upon entering the land of the Atlantians they defeated in a pitched battle the inhabitants of the city Cerne, as it is called, and making their way inside the walls along with the fleeing enemy, they got the city into their hands; and desiring to strike terror into the neighbouring peoples they treated the captives savagely, put to the sword the men from the youth upward, led into slavery the children and women, and razed the city. But when the terrible fate of the inhabitants of Cerne became known among their fellow tribesmen, it is related that the Atlantians, struck with terror, surrendered their cities on terms of capitulation and announced that they would do whatever should be commanded them, and that the queen Myrina, bearing herself honourably towards the Atlantians, both established friendship with them and founded a city to bear her name in place of the city which had been razed; and in it she settled both the captives and any native who so desired. Whereupon the Atlantians presented her with magnificent presents and by public decree voted to her notable honours, and she in return accepted their courtesy and in addition promised that she would show kindness to their nation. And since the natives were often been warred upon by the Gorgons, as they were named, a folk which resided upon their borders, and in general had that people lying in wait to injure them, Myrina, they say, was asked by the Atlantians to invade the land of the afore-mentioned Gorgons. But when the Gorgons drew up their forces to resist them a mighty battle took place in which the Amazons, gaining the upper hand, slew great numbers of their opponents and took no fewer than three thousand prisoners; and since the rest had fled for refuge into a certain wooded region, Myrina untertook to set fire to the timber, being eager to destroy the race utterly, but when she found that she was unable to succeed in her attempt she retired to the borders of her country.
55:
Now as the Amazons, they go on to say, relaxed their watch during the night because of their success, the captive women, falling upon them and drawing the swords of those who thought they were conquerors, slew many of them; in the end, however, the multitude poured in about them from every side and the prisoners fighting bravely were butchered one and all. Myrina accorded a funeral to her fallen comrades on three pyres and raised up three great heaps of earth as tombs, which are called to this day 'Amazon Mounds'. But the Gorgons, grown strong again in later days, were subdued a second time by Perseus, the son of Zeus, when Medusa was queen over them; and in the end both they and the race of the Amazons were entirely destroyed by Heracles, when he visited the regions to the west and set up his pillars in Libya, since he felt that it would ill accord with his resolve to be the benefactor of the whole race of mankind if he should suffer any nations to be under the rule of women. The story is also told that the marsh Tritonis disappeared from sight in the course of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay towards the ocean were torn asunder. As for Myrina, the account continues, she visited the larger part of Libya, and passing over into Egypt she struck a treaty of friendship with Horus, the son of Isis, who was king of Egypt at that time, and then, after making war to the end upon the Arabians and slaying many of them, she subdued Syria; but when the Cilicians came out with presents to meet her and agreed to obey her commands, she left those free who yielded to her of their free will and for this reason these are called to this day the 'Free Cilicians'. She also conquered in war the races in the region of the Taurus, peoples of outstanding courage, and descended through Greater Phrygia to the sea, then she won over the land lying along the coast and fixed the bounds of her campaign at the Caicus River. And selecting in the territory which she had won by arms sites well suited for the founding of cities, she built a considerable number of them and founded one which bore her own name, but the others she named after the women who held the most important commands, such as Cyme, Pitana, and Priene. These, then, are the cities she settled along the sea, but others, and a larger number, she planted in the regions stretching towards the interior. She seized also some of the islands, and Lesbos in particular, on which she founded the city of Mitylene, which was named after her sister who took part in the campaign. After that, while subduing some of the rest of the islands, she was caught in a storm, and after she had offered up prayers for her safety to the Mother of the Gods, she was carried to one of the uninhabited islands; this island, in obedience to a vision which she beheld in her dreams, she made sacred to this goddess, and set up altars there and offered magnificent sacrifices. She also gave it the name of Samothrace, which means, when translated into Greek, 'Sacred Island', although some historians say that it was formerly called Samos and was then given the name of Samothrace by Thracians who at one time dwelt on it. However, after the Amazons had returned to the continent, the myth relates, the Mother of the Gods, well pleased with the island, settled in it certain other people, and also her own sons, who are known by the name of Corybantes- who their father was is handed down in their rites as a matter not to be divulged; and she established the mysteries which are now celebrated on the island and ordained by law that the sacred area should enjoy the right of sanctuary. In these times, they go on to say, Mopsus the Thracian, who had been exiled by Lycurgus, the king of the Thracians, invaded the land of the Amazons with an army of fellow-exiles, and with Mopsus on the campaign was also Sipylus the Scythian, who had likewise been exiled from that part of Scythia which borders upon Thrace. There was a pitched battle, Sipylus and Mopsus gained the upper hand, and Myrina, the queen of the Amazons, and the larger part of the rest of her army were slain. In the course of the years, as the Thracians continued to be victorious in their battles, the surviving Amazons finally withdrew again into Libya. And such was the end, as the myth relates, of the campaign which the Amazons of Libya made.

Book IV, 16 - Heracles and the Amazons
16:
Heracles then received a Command to bring back the girdle of Hippolyte the Amazon and so he made the expedition against the Amazons. Accordingly he sailed into the Pontus, which was named by him Euxeinus, and continuing to the mouth of the Thermodon River he encamped near the city of Themiscyra, in which was situated the palace of the Amazons. And first of all he demanded of them the girdle which he had been commanded to get; but when they would pay no heed to him, he joined battle with them. Now the general mass of the Amazons were arrayed against the main body of the followers of Heracles, but the most honoured of the women were drawn up opposite Heracles himself and put up a stubborn battle. The first, for instance, to join battle with him was Aella, who had been given this name because of her swiftness, but she found her opponent more agile than herself. The second, Philippis, encountering a mortal blow at the very first conflict, was slain. Then he joined battle with Prothoe, who, they said, had been victorious seven times over the opponents whom she had challenged to battle. When she fell, the fourth whom he overcame was known as Eriboea. She had boasted that because of the manly bravery which she displayed in contests of war she had no need of anyone to help her, but she found her claim was false when she encountered her better. The next, Celaeno, Eurybia, and Phoebe, who were companions of Artemis in the hunt and whose spears found their mark invariably, did not even graze the single target, but in that fight they were one and all cut down as they stood shoulder to shoulder with each other. After them Deianeira, Asteria and Marpe, and Tecmessa and Alcippe were overcome. The last-named had taken a vow to remain a maiden, and the vow she kept, but her life she could not preserve. The commander of the Amazons, Melanippe, who was also greatly admired for her manly courage, now lost her supremacy. And Heracles, after thus killing the most renowned of the Amazons and forcing the remaining multitude to turn in flight, cut down the greater number of them, so that the race of them was utterly exterminated. As for the captives, he gave Antiope as a gift to Theseus and set Melanippe free, accepting her girdle as a ransom.

Book IV, 28 - Theseus and the Amazons - the siege of Athens by the Amazons
28:
While Heracles was busied with the matters just described, the Amazons, they say, of whom there were some still left in the region of the Thermodon river, gathered in a body and set out to get revenge upon the Greeks for what Heracles had done in his campaign against them. They were especially eager to punish the Athenians because Theseus had made a slave of Antiope, the leader of the Amazons, or, as others write, of Hippolyte. The Scythians had joined forces with the Amazons, and so it came about that a notable army had been assembled, with which the leaders of the Amazons crossed the Cimmerian Bosporus and advanced through Thrace. Finally they traversed a large part of Europe and came to Attica, where they pitched their camp in what is at present called after them 'the Amazoneum'. When Theseus learned of the oncoming of the Amazons he came to the aid of the forces of his citizens, bringing with him the Amazon Antiope, by whom he already had a son Hippolytus. Theseus joined battle with the Amazons, and since the Athenians surpassed them in bravery, he gained the victory, and of the Amazons who opposed him, some he slew at the time and the rest he drove out of Attica. And it came to pass that Antiope, who was fighting at the side of her husband Theseus, distinguished herself in the battle and died fighting heroically. The Amazons who survived renounced their ancestral soil, and returned with the Scythians into Scythia and made their homes among that people. But we have spoken enough about the Amazons, and shall return to the deeds of Heracles.

Herodotus:

Book IV, 110-117 The origin of the Sauromatae people
110:
The history of the Sauromatae is as I will now show. When the Greeks warred with the Amazons (whom the Scythians call Oiorpata, a name signifying in our tongue killers of men, for in Scythian a man is oior, and to kill is pata) the story runs that after their victory on the Thermodon they sailed away carrying in three ships as many Amazons as they had been able to take alive; and out at sea the Amazons set upon the crews and slew them. But they knew nothing of ships, nor how to use rudder or sail or oar; and the men having been slain they were borne at the mercy of waves and winds, till they came to the Cliffs by the Maeetian lake; this place is in the country of the free Scythians. There the Amazons landed, and set forth on their journey to the inhabited country, and seized the first troop of horses they met, and mounted on them they raided the Scythian lands.
111:
The Scythians could not understand the matter; for they knew not the women's speech nor their dress nor their nation, but wondered whence they had come, and supposed them to be men all of they same age; and they met the Amazons in battle. The end of the fight was that the Scythians got possession of the dead, and so came to know that their foes were women. Wherefore taking counsel they resolved by no means to slay them as heretofore, but to send to them their youngest men, of a number answering (as they guessed) to the number of the women. They bade these youths encamp near to the Amazons and to imitate all that they did; if the women pursued them, then not to fight, but to flee; and when the pursuit ceased, to come and encamp near to them. This was the plan of the Scythians, for they desired that children should be born of the women. The young men, being sent, did as they were charged.
112:
When the Amazons perceived that the youths meant them no harm, they let them be; but every day the two camps drew nearer to each other. Now the young men, like the Amazons, had nothing but they arms and their horses, and lived as did the women, by hunting and plunder.
113:
At midday the Amazons would scatter and go singly or in pairs away from each other, roaming thus apart for greater comfort. The Scythians marked this and did likewise; and as the women wandered alone, a young man laid hold of one of them, and the woman made no resistance but suffered him to do his will; and since they understood not each other's speech and she could not speak to him, she signed with the hand that he should come on the next day to the same place bringing another youth with him (showing by signs that there should be two), and she would bring another woman with her. The youth went away and told his comrades; and the next day he came himself with another to the place, where he found the Amazon and another with her awaiting him. When the rest of the young men learnt of this, they had intercourse with the rest of the Amazons.
114:
Presently they joined their camps and dwelt together, each man having for his wife the woman with whom he had had intercourse at first. Now the men could not learn the women's language, but the women mastered the speech of the men; and when they understood each other, the men said to the Amazons, "We have parents and possessions; now therefore let us no longer live as we do, but return to our people and consort with them; and we will still have you, and no others, for our wives." To this the women replied: "Nay, we could not dwell with your women; for we and they have not the same customs. We shoot with the bow and throw the javelin and ride, but the crafts of women we have never learned; and your women do none of the things whereof we speak, but abide in their waggons working at women's crafts, and never go abroad a-hunting or for aught else. We and they therefore could never agree. Nay, if you desire to keep us for wives and to have the name of just men, go to your parents and let them give you the allotted share of their possessions, and after that let us go and dwell by ourselves." The young men agreed and did this.
115:
So when they had been given the allotted share of possessions which fell to them, and returned to the Amazons, the women said to them: "We are in fear and dread, to think how we should dwell in this country; seeing that not only have we bereaved you of your parents, but we have done much hurt to your land. Nay, since you think right to have us as wives, let us all together, we and you, remove out of this country and dwell across the river Tanais."
116:
To this too the youths consented; and crossing the Tanais they went a three days' journey from the river eastwards, and a three days' journey from the Maeetian lake northwards; and when they came to the region in which they now dwell, they made their abode there. Ever since then the women of the Sauromatae have followed their ancient usage; they ride a-hunting with their men or without them; they go to war, and wear the same dress as the men.
117:
The language of the Sauromatae is Scythian, but not spoken in its ancient purity, seeing that the Amazons never rightly learnt it. In regard to marriage, it is the custom that no virgin weds till she has slain a man of the enemy; and some of them grow old and die unmarried, because they cannot fulfil the law.

Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 3. 56. 1 - 57. 8 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"But since we have made mention of the Atlantioi (Atlantians) [i.e. their war with the Amazons, see section which follows], we believe that it will not be inappropriate in this place to recount what their myths relate about the genesis of the gods, in view of the fact that it does not differ greatly from the myths of the Greeks. Now the Atlantians, dwelling as they do in the regions on the edge of Okeanos (the Ocean) and inhabiting a fertile territory, are reputed far to excel their neighbours in reverence toward the gods and the humanity they showed in their dealings with strangers, and the gods, they say, were born among them. And their account, they maintain, is in agreement with that of the most renowned of the Greek poets [Homer, Iliad 14.200] when he represents Hera as saying: ‘For I go to see the ends of the bountiful earth, Okeanos source of the gods and Tethys divine their mother.’
This is the account given in their myth: Their first king was Ouranos (Uranus, Heaven), and he gathered the human beings, who dwelt in scattered habitations, within the shelter of a walled city and caused his subjects to cease from their lawless ways and their bestial manner of living, discovering for them the uses of cultivated fruits, how to store them up, and not a few other things which are of benefit to man; and he also subdued the larger part of the inhabited earth, in particular the regions to the west and the north. And since he was a careful observer of the stars he foretold many things which would take place throughout the world; and for the common people he introduced the year on the basis of the movement of the sun and the months on that of the moon, and instructed them in the seasons which recur year after year. Consequently the masses of the people, being ignorant of the eternal arrangement of the stars and marvelling at the events which were taking place as he had predicted, conceived that the man who taught such things partook of the nature of the gods, and after he had passed from among men they accorded to him immortal honours, both because of his benefactions and because of his knowledge of the stars; and then they transferred his name to the firmament of heaven, both because they thought that he had been so intimately acquainted with the risings and the settings of the stars and with whatever else took place in the firmament, and because they would surpass his benefactions by the magnitude of the honours which they would show him, in that for all subsequent time they proclaimed him to be the king of the universe.
To Ouranos, the myth continues, were born forty-five sons from a number of wives, and, of these, eighteen, it is said, were by Titaia (Titaea), each of them bearing a distinct name, but all of them as a group were called, after their mother, Titanes (Titans). Titaia, because she was prudent and had brought about many good deeds for the peoples, was deified after her death by those whom she had helped and her name was changed to Gê (Earth). To Ouranos were also born daughters, the two eldest of whom were by far the most renowned above the others and were called Basileia and Rhea, whom some also named Pandora. Of these daughters Basileia, who was the eldest and far excelled the others in both prudence and understanding, reared all her brothers, showing them collectively a mother's kindness; consequently she was given the appellation of ‘Great Mother’; and after her father had been translated from among men into the circle of the gods, with the approval of the masses and her brothers she succeeded to the royal dignity, though she was still a maiden and because of her exceedingly great chastity had been unwilling to unite in marriage with any man.
But later, because of her desire to leave sons who should succeed to the throne, she united in marriage with Hyperion, one of her brothers, for whom she had the greatest affection. And when there were born to her two children, Helios (the Sun) and Selenê (the Moon), who were greatly admired for both their beauty and their chastity, the brothers of Basileia, they say, being envious of her because of her happy issue of children ad fearing that Hyperion would divert the royal power to himself, committed an utterly impious deed; for entering into a conspiracy among themselves they put Hyperion to the sword, and casting Helios, who was still in years a child, into the Eridanos river, drowned him. When this crime came to light, Selene, who loved her brother very greatly, threw herself down from the roof, but as for his mother, while seeking his body along the river, her strength left her and falling into a swoon she beheld a vision in which she thought that Helios stood over her and urged her not to mourn the death of her children; for, he said, the Titanes would meet the punishment which they deserve, while he and his sister would be transformed, by some divine providence, into immortal natures, since that which had formerly been called ‘holy fire’ in the heavens would be called by men ‘the sun’ (Helios) and that addresses as ‘menê’ would be called ‘the moon’ (Selene).
When she was aroused from the swoon she recounted to the common crowd both the dream and the misfortunes which had befallen her, asking that they render to the dead honours like those accorded to the gods and asserting that no man should thereafter touch her body. And after this she became frenzied, and seizing such of her daughter's playthings as could make a noise, she began to wander over the land, with her hair hanging free, inspired by the noise of the kettledrums and cymbals, so that those who saw her were struck with astonishment. And all men were filled with pity at her misfortune and some were clinging to her body, when there came a mighty storm and continuous crashes of thunder and lightning; and in the midst of this Basileia passed from sight, whereupon the crowds of people, amazed at this reversal of fortune, transferred the names and the honours of Helios and Selenê to the stars of the sky, and as for their mother, they considered her to be a goddess and erected altars to her, and imitating the incidents of her life by the pounding of the kettledrums and the clash of cymbals they rendered unto her in this way sacrifices and all other honours."

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#3    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

Aelian, On Animals 15. 2 (trans. Scholfield) (Greek natural history C2nd A.D.) :
"Those who live on the shores of Okeanos (Ocean) [i.e. on the Atlantic coast of North Africa] tell a fable of how the ancient kings of Atlantis, sprung from the seed of Poseidon, wore upon their head the bands from the male Ram-fish, as an emblem of their authority, while their wives, the queens, wore the curls of the females as a proof of theirs."



Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 3. 60. 1 - 61. 6 :
[After a digression into Phrygian mythology following the passage above, Diodorus continues with his Atlantian story :]
"After the death of Hyperion, the myth relates, the kingdom was divided among the sons of Ouranos, the most renowned of whom were Atlas and Kronos. Of these sons Atlas received as his part the regions on the coast of Okeanos (the Ocean), and he not only gave the name of Atlantioi (Atlantians) to his peoples but likewise called the greatest mountain in the land Atlas. They also say that he perfected the science of astrology and was the first to publish to mankind the doctrine of the sphere; and it was for this reason that the idea was held that he entire heavens were supported upon the shoulders of Atlas, the myth darkly hinting in this way at his discovery and description of the sphere. There were born to him a number of sons, one of whom was distinguished above the others for his piety, justice to his subjects, and love of mankind, his name being Hesperos (Evening-Star). This king, having once climbed to the peak of Mount Atlas, was suddenly snatched away by mighty winds while he was making his observations of the stars, and never was seen again; and because of the virtuous life he had lived and their pity for his sad fate the multitudes accorded to him immortal honours and called the brightest of the stars of heaven after him.
Atlas, the myth goes on to relate, also had seven daughters, who as a group were called Atlantides after their father, but their individual names were Maia, Elektra, Taÿgetê, Steropê, Meropê, Halkyonê, and the last Kelaino. These daughters lay with the most renowned heroes and gods and thus became ancestors of the larger part of the race of human beings, giving birth to those who, because of their high achievements, came to be called gods and heroes; Maia the eldest, for instance, lay with Zeus and bore Hermes, who was the discoverer of many things for the use of mankind; similarly the other Atlantides also gave birth to renowned children, who became the founders in some instances of nations and in other cases of cities. Consequently, not only among certain barbarians but among the Greeks as well, the great majority of the most ancient heroes trace their descent back to the Atlantides. These daughters were also distinguished for their chastity and after their death attained to immortal honour among men, by whom they were both enthroned in the heavens and endowed with the appellation of Pleiades. The Atlantides were also called ‘nymphai’ because the natives of that land addressed their women by the common appellation of ‘nymphe.’
Kronos (Cronus), the brother of Atlas, the myth continues, who was a man notorious for his impiety and greed, married his sister Rhea, by whom he begat that Zeus who was later called ‘Olympios.’ . . .
Zeus, the son of Kronos, emulated a manner of life the opposite of that led by his father, and since he showed himself honourable and friendly to all, the masses addressed him as ‘father.’ As for his succession to the kingly power, some say that his father yielded it to him of his own accord, but others state that he was chosen as king by the masses because of the hatred they bore towards his father, and that when Kronos made war against him with he aid of the Titanes, Zeus overcame him in battle, and on gaining supreme power visited all the inhabited world, conferring benefactions upon the race of men. He was pre-eminent also in bodily strength and in all the other qualities of virtue and for this reason quickly became master of the entire world. And in general he showed all zeal to punish impious and wicked men and to show kindness to the masses. In return for all this, after he had passed from among men he was given the name of Zên [from the verb ‘to live’], because he was the cause of right ‘living’ among men, and those who had received his favours showed him honour by enthroning him in the heavens, all men eagerly acclaiming him as god and lord for ever of the whole universe.
These, then, are in summary the facts regarding the teachings of the Atlantioi (Atlantians) about the gods.”



Pliny the Elder, Natural History 6. 199 (trans. Rackham) (Roman encyclopedia C1st A.D.) :
"There is reported to be another island off [African] Mount Atlas [in the Atlantic], itself also called Atlantis, from which a two days’ voyage along the coast reaches the desert district in the neighbourhood of the Western Aethiopes [i.e. black Africans] and the cape mentioned above as the Horn of the West, the point at which the coastline begins to curve westward in the direction of the Atlantic."

Amazons live in Lybia in the marsh Tritons near Atlas mountain called Hespera. Their capital was Cherronesus. Diodorus  also tells us about Amazons that they have been able to do Parthian shot. So by this time Amazons were already in Scythia so that doesnt surprised me. Maybe they were on battlefield at Carrhae against in 53 BC. We heard that Amazons conquered Atlanteans. They were is Syria. In Arabia. In Egypt, Lybia, island Lesbos, Spain.  After they raised up their army in Lybia they first punch was on Atlantis.And after that Atlanteans convinced Amazons that they defeat Gorgons. So they did.  After that their influence spread from Spain,West Africa,Egypt,Syria, Anatolia, Arbia,Greece. Amazons also invaded Athens because they abducted Antiope. Thesus and Greeks won over Amazons and Antiope was killed in process. So it doesnt surprised me why Amazons were on side of Troy.  It was not just loosing battle. It was principle. When they abdutced ist okay but when Troy did –its not.  We are also told that Amazons after gave a birth they would cut their right breast so they could use bow better. But in Ninth Quest of Hercules , Apollodorus tells us that their right breast were just pressed down. After being destroyed by Hercules Amazon brench settle in Scythia as Herodotus tells us. They were similar people. Arrow and bows. Like recent Mongols.  We also heard about Poseidon and Atlantis connecttion now here is again connection with Poseidon/Atlantis and Amazons. Poseidon was horse god too. Interestingly when we notice that Amazons were linked with horse. "Earth-Shaker" due to his role in causing earthquakes, and has been called the "tamer of horses"(wiki) So is earthquake of disappearing Atlantis caused by horses? Amazons  horses? A mortal woman named Cleito once lived on an isolated island; Poseidon fell in love with the human mortal and created a dwelling sanctuary at the top of a hill near the middle of the island and surrounded the dwelling with rings of water and land to protect her. She gave birth to five sets of twin boys(the firstborn who being named Atlas) became the first rulers of Atlantis . Poseidon was founder of Atlantis and he made war with Athens. Scythians called Amazons manslayers or Oior pata. Scythians refused to fought with them after first battles. Scythians were gentlemens. So soon after two group melted.They become Sarmatians. Sarmatians often fight with Rome and on their side. Later in 4 century they disapear from history after Germanic tribes and Huns swept trough their land.
Athene was in war with Atlantis yet Plato description of battle was poor. We dont know where for how long war raged. So if Atlanteans attack Greece and Egyptain knew about them they were quite famous backthen. Especially if we consider that their port wasnt in Med sea. What about war with Greece? They made war with Greece about time when Greeks were not naval power and they loose so either war was fought on land or that wasnt a war rather like skirmish border battle.
We also know that in Causasus Gargareans were all male tribe which Amazons had sex to have children. Reccords differs from abdutcion to deals to made seks.  I wonder could it be that they attack Atlanteans because there wasnt males in Lybia anymore. Maybe they killed fathers of their children after sex. Maybe thats reason why they attack Medusa. Female monster. They only tolerated males for a while. And females were instantly killed. Maybe they presered Venus cult and Matriarch and add little absoultism there. I heard that Berbers myths about creation of world spoke about tribes of women and tribes of men who lied separatly and that they met on river.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#4    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

Im waiting for criticism. If such is possible.

Edited by the L, 15 November 2012 - 07:16 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#5    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:23 PM

Or, it was just a parable written by Plato and is not a real place.

"A cat has nine lives. For three he plays, for three he strays, and for the last three he stays."


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#6    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:26 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 15 November 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Or, it was just a parable written by Plato and is not a real place.

Read the thread. You say that because you are not aware that Plato wasnt first who mentioned it. Also you are not aware of countless indications.
We put people in jail on one indication. And we have here more then 10. If you are really interested read it. It takes 15 minutes.
I will not repeat myself.

Edited by the L, 15 November 2012 - 07:28 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#7    Ashotep

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:29 PM

I doubt we will ever know the truth about Atlantis.  If there really was an Atlantis.


#8    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

View Postthe L, on 15 November 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Read the thread. You say that because you are not aware that Plato wasnt first who mentioned it. Also you are not aware of countless indications.
We put people in jail on one indication. And we have here more then 10. If you are really interested read it. It takes 15 minutes.

There may well be a land or a people that Plato bases Atlantis on. I often hear the Phonecians mentioned. Or many it was an amalgam of lands and people. The fact remains, however, that Atlantis is not mentioned before Plato.

Quote

I will not repeat myself.

Relax L, I'm not asking you to.

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#9    Hasina

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

What about all the people who place Atlantis somewhere else?

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#10    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:40 PM

Atlantis is not mentioned before Plato.
As I said there are many. Im not upset. I just pointed out that I already wrote about Atlantis before Plato in previous posts.
But here is one example:

150 years before Plato.

"But one of the mouths of the Araxes flows with clarity into the Caspian Sea. Now the Caspian Sea is by itself, not connected to the other sea; but the sea navigated by all the Greeks and the one outside the Pillars called the Atlantis Sea and Erythaean are one and the same."

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View PostHasina, on 15 November 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

What about all the people who place Atlantis somewhere else?

They didnt read Diodorus,Tacitus, Strabo and others.
But I do agree that there are indications that Atlantis was in north Europe.

Edited by the L, 15 November 2012 - 07:42 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#11    freetoroam

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:43 PM

why do some people insist on cutting and pasting half of Amazon?
Anyway, its seems plato was the first to mention it. the  Atlantis sea does not nessarily mean it contained a land called Atlantis. IE: the Red sea - is not named after an island called RED.

Edited by freetoroam, 15 November 2012 - 07:50 PM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#12    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

View PostHilander, on 15 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

I doubt we will ever know the truth about Atlantis.  If there really was an Atlantis.

Diodorus doesnt lied about Thracians and Scythians why would he on Amazons? Abscene of evidence isnt evidence of abscene.
Beside Troy was real. Illiad. In Illiad was mention main protagonist of idea.

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#13    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:48 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 15 November 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

why do some people insist on cutting and pasting half of Amazon?
Anyway, its seems plato was the first to mention it.

I copy paste crucial texts so you can asure yourself about it. If that what you ment.

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#14    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:55 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 15 November 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

the Red sea - is not named after an island called RED.

Yes but there are not several storys myths legends historical accounts which tells about Red people who invented alphabet , from whom all Gods emrged and so on.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#15    freetoroam

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:57 PM

View Postthe L, on 15 November 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Yes but there are not several storys myths legends historical accounts which tells about Red people who invented alphabet , from whom all Gods emrged and so on.
alledgedly!

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.




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