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Best evidence for ET visitation - 4th edition


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#151    Hazzard

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:06 AM

View PostPaxus, on 26 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Well, the 1993 Cossford triangle case then - oh wait... i think that's a man made (prob US) vehicle like TR 3B...

This isn't easy! Sorry Hazz



The Cosford Incident,... http://www.nickpope....rd-incident.htm

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#152    Oppono Astos

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

View PostHazzard, on 27 January 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

The Cosford Incident,... http://www.nickpope....rd-incident.htm
In many ways this sums up Pope, a whole 3 lines for what was/is supposed to be a major event.  RAF Cosford wasn't a front-line base at the time of the supposed UFO flap, and was only host to training units and a university air squadron.

Who is the skeptic: the realist who won't accept belief, or the believer who won't accept reality?

#153    Hazzard

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:35 PM

View PostOppono Astos, on 27 January 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

In many ways this sums up Pope, a whole 3 lines for what was/is supposed to be a major event.

Feel free to post a link to a better detailed report.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#154    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:51 PM

" But it wasn’t until 2005 that an airman serving at RAF Shawbury read Nick Pope’s account of the sighting and decided it was time to speak out. “The UFO supposedly seen at RAF Shawbury was later identified as a Dyfed-Powys police helicopter following a stolen car down the A5 between the A49 junction,” he wrote. “The observer was using his NiteSun to illuminate proceedings.”

:cry:

http://www.uk-ufo.or...secfilcosf2.htm

(The Shawbury one, mentioned by Mr. Pop, was all part of the same inicdent).

Edited by Lord Vetinari, 27 January 2013 - 01:52 PM.

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#155    DBunker

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:19 AM

There always seem to be a mundane explanation to UFOs.... the trick is to find it.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#156    psyche101

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:49 AM

View PostDBunker, on 29 January 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

There always seem to be a mundane explanation to UFOs.... the trick is to find it.

That is because the UFOlogists go to great lengths to hide logic. ET works better when we view him as a God that can do anything.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#157    DBunker

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

Thes why science and UFOology arent friends... many times (most of the time) there arent anything to test, or investigate.

Its the old classic Believe it or not ending.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#158    Slave2Fate

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:58 AM

View PostDBunker, on 29 January 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Thes why science and UFOology arent friends...

Yeah, but they could be, and that's the part that annoys me. ETH proponents (some, not all) seem to have a very anti-science view when they should be using science to attempt to validate their claims. Instead we are asked to turn a blind eye to the single greatest method of pursuing knowledge in the history of man. It's damn near oxymoronic...

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#159    Hazzard

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 29 January 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Yeah, but they could be, and that's the part that annoys me. ETH proponents (some, not all) seem to have a very anti-science view when they should be using science to attempt to validate their claims. Instead we are asked to turn a blind eye to the single greatest method of pursuing knowledge in the history of man. It's damn near oxymoronic...


Isnt that just about as big a mystery as the UFO (paranormal) phenomenon it self?  Why in the world would people that truly believe in this be so against science as a tool in their "investigation". Its even worse that that, they are against everyone else that gets close to the topic with the scientific method in mind.

Why is that, you think?

One would think that its more rewarding to have science telling us that this is real, that we are indeed being visited?

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#160    psyche101

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:12 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 29 January 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Yeah, but they could be, and that's the part that annoys me. ETH proponents (some, not all) seem to have a very anti-science view when they should be using science to attempt to validate their claims. Instead we are asked to turn a blind eye to the single greatest method of pursuing knowledge in the history of man. It's damn near oxymoronic...

Near?

:D

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#161    DBunker

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:17 AM

View PostHazzard, on 29 January 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Isnt that just about as big a mystery as the UFO (paranormal) phenomenon it self?  Why in the world would people that truly believe in this be so against science as a tool in their "investigation". Its even worse that that, they are against everyone else that gets close to the topic with the scientific method in mind.

Why is that, you think?

One would think that its more rewarding to have science telling us that this is real, that we are indeed being visited?

I can only think of one reason.... It would destroy their fantasy/belief.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#162    quillius

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:27 AM

View PostDBunker, on 30 January 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

I can only think of one reason.... It would destroy their fantasy/belief.

I do not think fantasy and belief are the same as the '/' suggests.
Anyhow do you think there is a difference between the scientific method versus the scientific mindset?

I ask because I would think we can only really apply scientific method when we have evidence, without evidence we cannot apply scientific method.

what do you think?

Edited by quillius, 30 January 2013 - 10:27 AM.


#163    DBunker

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

View Postquillius, on 30 January 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I do not think fantasy and belief are the same as the '/' suggests.
Anyhow do you think there is a difference between the scientific method versus the scientific mindset?

I ask because I would think we can only really apply scientific method when we have evidence, without evidence we cannot apply scientific method.

what do you think?

I agree with that, I guess.

What is your opinion on how some believers dont seem to want to use (HATE) science, the skeptical approach, and the required critical thinking in their "investigation"?

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#164    quillius

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:14 AM

View PostDBunker, on 30 January 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I agree with that, I guess.

What is your opinion on how some believers dont seem to want to use (HATE) science, the skeptical approach, and the required critical thinking in their "investigation"?

I guess my question was really leading to this, I think anyone who hates scientific method enjoys living in fantasy land. Having said that I think it is also bad to dismiss anything that cannot be confirmed by scientific method, leaving us only with scientific  mindset, which I believe can be detrimental to progress in certain fields.

A skeptical approach is good, but there are varying degress of skeptical approach, the one that leads with ridicule and dismisses without further investigation is as damaging as those living in fantasy land IMO.


#165    ChrLzs

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:16 PM

View Postquillius, on 30 January 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

A skeptical approach is good, but there are varying degress of skeptical approach, the one that leads with ridicule and dismisses without further investigation is as damaging as those living in fantasy land IMO.

Sure, there are a range of skeptical approaches, just as there is a range of non-skeptical ones..  :D

But isn't there are rather obvious quandary?  I happily admit I do sometimes dismiss cases quickly and completely - sorry Zoser.. (and sometimes I may ridicule them, although more often I'll ridicule the faux analyses or silly weightings being given to those cases) - but I do so only on those case that are unsupported anecdotes ie no supporting evidence!

You can't very usefully apply the scientific method to an anecdote, as even if the anecdote is 100% true (to the person stating it), that information they are relating is what is stored in their brains.  It is not a video or a photograph or a radar trace that can be analysed using technical principles.  It is a subjective memory, affected by that person's experience (inc. the movies they've seen), desires, beliefs, ... etc.

Things is, we have an absolute multitude of claimed sightings - and many alien=ET promoters will say that's all you need.
I say.. how is it that out of all those sightings, there isn't even one with compelling non-anecdotal evidence?

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