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More Best Evidence for aliens


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#796    Spankster

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 12:12 PM

Hi, New boy here, might aswell state where i stand on ET's. (Be gentle with me).

Personally, I havnt ever seen any convincing evidence of Extra terrestrial life full stop. Never mind evidence of ET life visiting earth. (Although i dont discount the possibility out of hand).

Sure iv seen some bizarre and compelling photo's of craft, lights etc (90% of which can be explanied quite simply i believe). But even though these are by their nature UNIDENTIFIED flying objects, its people who have labelled them extra terrestrial. Even if these pics to depict high tech areal vehicles, i think its just as, probably way more likely that these are human built, and flown machines.

Blurry triangles, shiny flat discs, strange floating orbs etc. None of these scream EXTRA TERRESTRIAL to me. And apart from this hap-hazard photographic "evidence", which is speculative and circumstantial at best, all we have is personal accounts from abductee's and contactee's. Now maybe this is just me and my general distrusting nature, but words are just words. Im not discounting these peoples stories, or calling em liars, but regardless of wither they are genuine contactee's, liars, or mentally challenged i dont even wanna hear thier claims as i have no way of confirming the scientific truth behind their claims, wither they are real or not.

So, where does a guy like me look to try to come to a personal conslusion about ET life ? All i can go on is statistical likelyhood and scientific probability. For a start, I have 100% belief in life elsewhere in the universe. And i think its highly probable comparable intelegent life has, does or will exist. But i have no reason to think we have been in contact what-so-ever. (Although again, i cant discount it outright).

And another side-point. Assuming that the steriotypical depiction of aliens in the media and in contactee accounts  (Greys with big heads, eyes, long limbs, limited digits etc) is based in some sort of truth. Who says these creatures are alien beings from distant solar systems ? Projecting human evoution from apes, through proto-humans to modern day homo sapiens and beyond... is it rediculous to propose that we may one day look like greys ? For years, in an evolutionary sence, humanity in general has been:

Getting progresively taller
Losing body hair
Increasing cranial size
Losing facial features (Eye brow ridges, nasal flanks, bone mass)

And it wouldnt be wild to speculate that as our intelects grow, and our need for physical strength diminishes due to our crippling dependance on technology, that we may become more slender, require less fingers, an evolve larger, more complex brains, craniums and eyes. Why not postulate that "Greys" could actually be the later stages of human development. I mean its no more or less possible than the theory that they are visitors from other worlds. And no more or less probable than the theory that we are indeed alone.  So, assuming that greys are real, and that they contact humans from advanced flying craft, what would be the biggest scientific problem in them visiting us ?

Well, for ET's the answer is FTL travel. For evolved humans, it would be time travel. Both unatainable to us at the moment, and for me, both just as likely or unlikely.

I guess what im trying to say is, we need to keep an open mind. Alien life may not exist. Alien life may exist way outwith our grasp. Alien life might visit us daily, or could actually be an evolution of our selves or if the cosmic string theory of multiple universes is correct it could be somthing different altogether.

I think the media, the internet, conspiracy theorists, untrustworthy govornments and peoples natural fascination with the strange and obscure has turned the serious issue of extraterrestrial life into a huge minefield of speculation and fantasy. Peoples emotions are now tied up in it and a serious, stable and scientific approach to the issue is all but lost alot of the time.

So, where do i stand? Simple. I have no fu**ing clue. Aliens exist somewhere. Apart from that anything i ould say or hope would be just that. Hope.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to an idiot rambling on.

Edited by Spankster, 06 August 2009 - 12:14 PM.

It doesnt really matter what you think. What matter is WHY you think it.

If you agree that in teh absence of god you would commit murder, robbery and r@pe then you reveal yourself to be an immoral person. If on the other hand you admit that you would continue to be a good person even when not under devine surveilance, you have fatally undermined your claim that god is necessary for us to be good:- Dr. Richard Dawkins

#797    Wookietim

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 12:15 PM

View PostBraveheart, on Aug 5 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

Hazzard, you're such a sceptical. And I'd like to see you post your "explanations" along with some scientific or other proof. As at the moment, all you're doing is writing everything off with your own sceptic opinion.

You need to watch a few of the UFO hunters episodes. They address different encounters with UFOs (be it physical contact or just sightings) and they back the evidence up with scientific tests (such as digitally modifying video/pictures to look for anything unusual). One episode really caught my interest, whereby a man who has witnessed a UFO, seen a piece fall off the UFO and land on the road ahead. He recovered this item and still has it today. Many many tests have been done on the item by several different scientists at different locations, and not one of them could prove it was of Earthly origin. They all - unanimously - agreed it was not of Earth origin. So, what is it?

I'll get the links tomorrow! Until then, watch UFO hunters.  :P


Ahhhh yes.... "UFO hunters" - a show that is no more credible than it's sister show : "Ghost Hunters".

The fact is that they probably did have testers that all agreed it was not of earthly origin. Of course, that is because they only interviewed testers that agreed with that thesis - not the ones that did not. Put simply, even in science, you aren't going to see a literal 100% agreement on anything, and when it comes to something like that it is even more likely that 100% agreement will be impossible to attain.


#798    Evangium

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 12:16 PM

Great post Spankster, but no need to drop the 'F' bomb ;)

上人は菩薩と見たる桜哉
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they are bodhisattvas...
cherry blossoms

Should RADAR really be held up as absolute proof of visitation by an extraterrestrial intelligence?  Click here to find out


#799    Spankster

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 12:24 PM

Hey, what do ya mean ?

I meant funking.  I play bass. :blush:

(Dually noted, i'll avoid it in the future. Cheers)

It doesnt really matter what you think. What matter is WHY you think it.

If you agree that in teh absence of god you would commit murder, robbery and r@pe then you reveal yourself to be an immoral person. If on the other hand you admit that you would continue to be a good person even when not under devine surveilance, you have fatally undermined your claim that god is necessary for us to be good:- Dr. Richard Dawkins

#800    Hazzard

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 01:35 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on Aug 6 2009, 04:24 AM, said:

You might as well accept reality for what it is. That photo was analyzed using the methods presented. The data also confirmed the object as artificial, and was  nothing of any natural phenomena, as noted by official government sources.

Ill accept no such thing from this clown Robert D. Morningstar ... you might aswell tell me to accept Richard C Hoaglands nonsense as fact!!

His Enterprise Mission Website is as silly as Morningstars Cyberspaceorbit.or should I say KS15s..!??

http://www.cyberspac...orningstar.html

If this guys photo analysis is scientific, then KS15 is a God damb genious!! :rolleyes:

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#801    Braveheart

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 02:11 PM

Here's the story I spoke of. UFO hunters didn't discover and start the investigation of this story, they simply covered it and tried to explain it. Whether or not your opinion on UFO hunters matches mine, they do bring forth some good evidence. Obviously the majority here don't watch it. Yes some episodes are total bull and contain utter crap, but you can't judge the entire show by those.

Anyway, please read: http://ufoevidence.c...;num=1057372945


This is the object he saw falling from a UFO before it took off into space. He recovered it:

Posted Image



Now I can see everyone saying "it fell off a meteoroid", but the thing is when the tests where done, scientists showed it is not made by a natural occurrence, rather it was engineered or manufactured by someone. The contents of the object are not found on Earth.


Also, bit off topic from that, when people say "aliens don't/wouldn't/can't come here" what if they send probes like we do, to planets? Every UFO doesn't need to be manned by little green men. They could be doing what we've been doing for years.

Edited by Braveheart, 06 August 2009 - 02:17 PM.


#802    Ra_Sun-God

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 02:36 PM

View PostHazzard, on Aug 5 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

Im pretty sure that most video/pictures/reported "triangular shaped UFOs" in the night sky are aircraft formation flights.
We have 3 options about these strange "Triangular shaped UFO's":

1) It could be human made test flying crafts "Secret Black Projects" (built at Area 51?), or

2) They are piloted by Extraterrestrial beings who comes from other planets from other star systems  :P , or a combination of 1) and 2) that lead to 3)

3) The Government/Military cooperate with Extraterrestrial beings, the Government/Military learn some of the alien technology "Secret Black Projects", and in return the Government/Military allow these aliens to abduct humans  :P

Well, to me 1) is out of the question since these UFO's operate at extremely high speeds at very low altittude, and maneuvrements that Earth crafts simply are not able to, suddenly stops in the air, and suddenly change sharp angle directions still while at extremely high speeds....  ;)

And guess what, to me it seems to be both 2) and 3) when speaking of UFO's piloted by ET's and abductions! :w00t:





http://www.ufoeviden...ses/case187.htm And guess what Dear skeptics, Kelly Cahill on Youtube she is on other sites that is serious!  :w00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-ou0Mv2DQ

Edited by Ra_Sun-God, 06 August 2009 - 03:19 PM.


#803    Ra_Sun-God

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:25 PM

View PostEvangium, on Aug 6 2009, 02:55 AM, said:

Given that Bill Birnes runs the magazine that's embroidered on his hat, I'm sure it's in his interests to project the illusion that the 'case is closed'.
I don't know how much input he, or any of the other guys have in the show's production, but if TAPS and Ghost Hunters are anything to go by, it's definitely part of the formula to present a false impression of 100% conclusive proof of [insert appropriate paranormal phenomena here] as the series progresses.

It's worth paying attention to what Pat has to say to Bill at 3:28 onwards in this video-


Bill's 'proof' for this claim?  Some UFO footage, 2 unrelated patients with elevated CK levels, the 'fact' that doctors have no 'explanation' for this, and possibly the interviewee being ex-military fits with Bill's own paranoid delllusions.

Elevated CK levels doesn't necessarily mean that there is no explanation.  As with many things that pop up in medicine, elevated CK can be from a few things, all of which need to be properly investigated before being confirmed or eliminated.  Hypothyroidism is one such example I know of (in at least one rare case values over 8000 u/i were recorded). Something I'm sure the doctors would have said, and didn't make it to the final edit.
EXACTLY!

That Youtube of yours just show that these ET's have supernatural power, so they "Freeze" humans so humans are not able to move....

Is'nt that amazing that ET's visit the Earth?  :P


#804    Ra_Sun-God

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:30 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on Aug 6 2009, 03:26 AM, said:

I am sure there are those who will claim that weather balloons can do 10,000 mph. After all, they have claimed that planets were the UFOs the circled around aircraft as they were tracked on radar doing so.

Having a nice time in Las Vegas at the Tuskegee convention.
I agree, it is so unbelievable that people actually do exist who say that balloons can do 10,000 mph  :lol: There are even skeptics who claim that man have never been on the moon!  :lol:

I wish you a nice time in Las Vegas Skyeagle  :)  What is Tuskegee convention about?


#805    Ra_Sun-God

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:53 PM

View PostEvangium, on Aug 6 2009, 12:12 PM, said:

UFOs are, however sighted around the clock, somewhere in the world.  One is forced therefore forced to the conclusion that the intelligence behind the UFOS is not extraterrestrial but paraphysical..."
I think you typed "not" and "paraphysical" by mistake Evangium dude  :blink:  , please don't hurry that much.

You're right, the UFO's is of extraterrestrial origin and they do travel between their own home-planets from other star systems and the Earth.....  :tu:





And guess what:

1) The Secret Shadow Government "Majestic 12" tried to use the Weather Balloon cover up story in attempt to Cover up the crashed ET-spacecraft near Roswell in 1947, and the Air Force later admitted that huge mistake, and

2) They tried also to cover up the two crash sites (too powerful to be made by weather balloons) by saying there were 11 crash sites but there are no such 11 crash sites, and

3) Also they tried the test dummy cover up story but the test dummies were first used in the 1950'ies, and

4) The scientists finally confirmed this year 2009 that the crashed UFO debris is of extraterrestrial origin:

http://www.ufodigest...WELL-DEBRIS.php

ROSWELL DEBRIS CONFIRMED AS EXTRATERRESTRIAL: Lab Located, Scientists Named
by Anthony Bragalia

Posted: 11:44 May 26, 2009

Newly discovered documents reveal that in the months immediately following the purported 1947 UFO crash at Roswell, secret government studies began on a material that was previously unknown to science. The "memory metal" that was studied precisely matches some of the debris material reported by several witnesses to the crash. Evidence shows that -under military direction- these unique metal studies were undertaken by a contracted laboratory that possessed advanced technical capabilities that the U.S. government itself did not have at the time. A former high-level scientist employed by the involved laboratory has offered a confession that he was tasked to study the crashed UFO material. Information provided by two U.S. Air Force Generals also offers direct support for this discovery.

The documents suggest that after the crash, the US government attempted to develop a unique material that is today referred to as memory metal. This shape-recovery alloy was reported by several witnesses to the Roswell crash in the summer of 1947. The lightweight "morphing" material was able to be crumpled or deformed and then return itself instantly and seamlessly to its original state. The metallurgical discoveries that resulted from these studies were then "seeded" for further technology development to other government agencies (including NASA) and through a series of military contracts to universities and industry.

The laboratory contracted by Wright Patterson Air Force Base to perform these studies was Battelle Memorial Institute in Columbus, OH. It has been credibly reported that Wright Patterson Air Force Base was the very base where the Roswell UFO debris was flown after the crash.


http://www.video4vie...l Debris Tested

Edited by Ra_Sun-God, 06 August 2009 - 03:57 PM.


#806    NigelTM

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 04:25 PM

View PostBraveheart, on Aug 6 2009, 10:11 AM, said:

Here's the story I spoke of. UFO hunters didn't discover and start the investigation of this story, they simply covered it and tried to explain it. Whether or not your opinion on UFO hunters matches mine, they do bring forth some good evidence. Obviously the majority here don't watch it. Yes some episodes are total bull and contain utter crap, but you can't judge the entire show by those.

Anyway, please read: http://ufoevidence.c...;num=1057372945
I stopped reading when I came across this part:

Quote

We need 20,000 dollars to finish the isotope abundance ratio tests.
Yep, a plea for money makes them more credible.

Quote

This is the object he saw falling from a UFO before it took off into space. He recovered it:

Posted Image
It may be the object he says he saw falling from a UFO.....

Quote

Now I can see everyone saying "it fell off a meteoroid", but the thing is when the tests where done, scientists showed it is not made by a natural occurrence, rather it was engineered or manufactured by someone. The contents of the object are not found on Earth.
The tests aren't completed though by the guy's own admission. So I think it's premature to say it's impossible the object was made on Earth. And if it was engineered or manufactured by someone, what's the simplest explanation?

Quote

Also, bit off topic from that, when people say "aliens don't/wouldn't/can't come here" what if they send probes like we do, to planets? Every UFO doesn't need to be manned by little green men. They could be doing what we've been doing for years.
Things like von Neumann machines have been brought up before, and of course that's a possibility. It's possible UFOs are able to transport across space like in Star Trek. Speculation does not equal evidence however.


#807    Hazzard

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 07:09 PM

View PostNigelTM, on Aug 6 2009, 05:25 PM, said:

I stopped reading when I came across this part:

Quote

We need 20,000 dollars to finish the isotope abundance ratio tests.

Yep, a plea for money makes them more credible.

The tests aren't completed though by the guy's own admission.

So, once again, and this seems to be the bottom line with the all believers "proof" of ET on Earth....  At best, we have something leading to no definite result... inconclusive.  


:sleepy:

Edited by Hazzard, 06 August 2009 - 07:13 PM.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#808    Evangium

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:14 AM

View PostRa_Sun-God, on Aug 7 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

EXACTLY!

That Youtube of yours just show that these ET's have supernatural power, so they "Freeze" humans so humans are not able to move....

Is'nt that amazing that ET's visit the Earth?  :P
Interesting that you chose that word that I've bolded and enlarged, then in your next post try to do some clumsy word trickery regarding a direct quote I posted....

上人は菩薩と見たる桜哉
to saintly eyes
they are bodhisattvas...
cherry blossoms

Should RADAR really be held up as absolute proof of visitation by an extraterrestrial intelligence?  Click here to find out


#809    NigelTM

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:19 AM

View PostHazzard, on Aug 6 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

Yep, a plea for money makes them more credible.

The tests aren't completed though by the guy's own admission.


So, once again, and this seems to be the bottom line with the all believers "proof" of ET on Earth....  At best, we have something leading to no definite result... inconclusive.  


:sleepy:
My first reaction to this: Hazz, you're being awfully generous here, but on second thought, you're precisely right. Because at best, it's inconclusive. At worst, other conclusions may be drawn (but we don't want to jump to them).


#810    weatherman

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:40 AM

This is an article Hubble from Wikipedia about the Hubble Deep Field taken from the Hubble Space Telescope. It shows nearly 3,000 galaxies in only a fraction of the sky. Have heard it described that there are tens of thousands of galaxies in the universe and for anyone to think the Earth is the only place where life exists is, to say the least, arrogant.

Edited by weatherman, 07 August 2009 - 01:48 AM.