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The disappearance of Ray Gricar

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#1441    2-B

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:16 PM

View PostSuperSmith, on 26 November 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:



Guess who only lived 10 minutes away from the the remains recently found in York?

http://www.yorkdispa...com/ci_15134327

https://maps.google....ved=0CCkQ8gEwAA

Well lookee, lookee.

I know I approach some things with an occasional bias, but I do wish I'd been able to save the Luna Redux thread from CL before things went lights out. We had good information about the sex crimes Luna was pursuing and Lots of Dots, so to speak, that just begged for full connection.


#1442    SuperSmith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:27 PM

View Post2-B, on 26 November 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Well lookee, lookee.

I know I approach some things with an occasional bias, but I do wish I'd been able to save the Luna Redux thread from CL before things went lights out. We had good information about the sex crimes Luna was pursuing and Lots of Dots, so to speak, that just begged for full connection.

2-B, I edited that post to add 3 additional links.  Go back and check it out.


#1443    Saunterer

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:00 AM

View PostSuperSmith, on 26 November 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Saunterer, page 3 of the Rev-1500 asks a series of questions that I would presume Lara may have answered "Yes" to several.  That would require her to file a "Schedule G".  Was there any mention of that over yonder.  I don't remember.

Are you familiar with "Reversionary interests"?

http://www.law.corne...ode/text/26/673
No side/page 2 or 3, or mention of Schedule G over yonder...and no, I have no legal (as in lawyerly) familiarity with reversionary interests.

Partial list of abbreviations: http://www.unexplain...10#entry4942034
Some news articles...even a "Just Gricar" (Pete Bosak) blog post...but, thankfully, largely devoid of most "sporadic" nonsense, despite the inclusion of flash-pan pieces by other opportunists like James Renner and David Lohr: http://z10.invisionf...?showtopic=2226

#1444    2-B

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 06:17 PM

This tablet is infuriating. I was just finishing a relatively long post when it slipped in my hand and sent the whole post to cyber death. Trying again.

The last few Tuesdays I've been watching a new series on Discover ID called "a Crime To Remember." It's a fairly upscale production focused on crimes from the '50's and '60's. Last night's installment was the case of a Florida judge, Chillingworth, and his wife Majorie, who disappeared in 1955 from their beach bungalow and who were declared dead years later.

Like Ray Gricar, Chillingworth was a man of justice and integrity, and he did not mince words with those he sentenced. Early investigation focused on the possibility of retribution from the criminal element (although "sightings" stirred rumors  the Chillingworths might be alive).

Without giving too much away, I'll say the parallels between the judicial characters of Chillingworth and Gricar were striking. I'll also say the key to solving the case had existed unnoticed for years on Chillingworth's calendar for the day following the night he and Marjorie disappeared, ultimately revealing the true killers. How this all unraveled has, at least for today, tipped me back to thinking about close court house connections in the Gricar case.

The ending voice over gave me chills. Definitely worth watching if ID re-runs this or if it's on On Demand.

A couple links, the first especially detailed and good IMO:

http://www.historicp...gworth-murders/

http://www.crimeandi...ders/crime.html

Edited by 2-B, 27 November 2013 - 06:18 PM.


#1445    2-B

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 06:26 PM

And especially for anyone, say anyone Over Yonder clinging to "lead detective" DZ's ramblings to James Renner in the fall of 2005 as some kind of "evidence" that the Lewisburg witness sightings equal RG being in Lewisburg, I offer this similar "evidence" that the Chillingworths were alive because a witness "saw" them:

Posted Image

Edited by 2-B, 27 November 2013 - 06:27 PM.


#1446    SuperSmith

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:08 PM

I must say that the location of the remains found in York, for lack of a better term, was a ballsy place to dump them.  The York Daily Newpaper is a stone throw away with numerous retail places as well as heavily traveled roads connecting.


#1447    SuperSmith

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:17 PM

Looking at mapping there is a trucking company behind the mall area and the York paper off of Stanley Drive.  I have been unable to identify the company but it is close to the site where the remains were found.  Between the two properties is a pond as well.


#1448    simplybill

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:34 PM

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the Ray Gricar forum.
Perhaps by next year we will be giving thanks that Ray's disappearance has been resolved.

Edited by simplybill, 28 November 2013 - 10:35 PM.

Every warrior is happy when his enemies flee before him, but much more blessed is the man to whom his fiercest enemies can come with confidence, knowing beforehand they will be received with love.
Richard Wurmbrand in Reaching Toward the Heights.

#1449    2-B

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:36 PM

View Postsimplybill, on 28 November 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the Ray Gricar forum.
Perhaps by next year we will be giving thanks that Ray's disappearance has been resolved.

I hope everyone is feeling fat and full today and blessed by presence of family and friends.

Those of us keenly aware this year of an empty seat at the table can only guess at best what it must be like to be Lara or Tony or his brothers facing the 9th holiday season with an empty chair and no explanation whatsoever for that absence.

I personally don't expect that Ray will turn up between now and next Thanksgiving alive and healthy on some tropical island with a Grey Goose martini in his hand (or even hidden away in Slovenia by distant relatives).

But I hope your vision comes true, Bill, and that what happened to Ray will be known in this coming year.


#1450    2-B

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:14 PM

A brief Open Message to SJ Over Yonder:

Shame on you! You claim to care about Ray Gricar. Yet in the same breath, you write a series of posts chastising two contributors who have done more to seek the truth about what happened to Ray Gricar than you could ever begin to understand. Preserving some status quo of posting is without value when it plays favorites, disallows challenges to inaccuracies and to outright lies, and in general leads the public readership down a garden path (or rabbit hole) from which they cannot return.

That is, of course, unless other voices are freely allowed to counter with the truth, or at the very least with questions that might lead readers to question the party line.

Readers deserve access to the entire set of facts, not the cherry-picked and carefully designed tales you have been shaped by. Hundreds and hundreds of these instances have been fed to you, little by little, post by post, and you are not even aware that it has happened.  How clear that is just in your tiny attack asking how these two alleged trouble-makers would feel if their witness accounts and credibility were questioned after reporting a sighting. It's oh so clear that you know little to nothing about this science, oh so clear you're unaware Blogger Boy had ample opportunity to learn from the world's leading expert on this, and oh so clear you're unaware he rejected some 40 years of expert science for his own best "guesses." My blood boils when I see him say things like his recent claim that Gricar holding a laptop in Lewisburg was CONFIRMED in a blog.

Balderdash. And only one tiny item on a huge plate of lies you've been fed.

But you go ahead and call for an atmosphere where no one questions things, where everyone drinks the Kool-Aid and smiles. I'm sure that will help Ray Gricar and those who care about him. /sarcasm font off.


#1451    2-B

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:28 PM

And a P.S. To the above: in the meantime, I intend to continue questioning everything and everyone that deserves questioning. You won't make me feel guilty if I question the media reports on this case. I can recite many of them word for word going back to 2005 and can tell you the sloppiness, shoddiness, and conflicts deserve to be questioned. If you all want to buy James Renner's version of DZ's ramblings about witnesses from the fall of 2005 as evidence, you go right ahead. I prefer someone who can get through the opening paragraphs without basic factual errors. You want to take Bosak at face value given so many instances of misreporting, including his claim that KA reported Gricar talking of Mel Wiley, go ahead; I'll double check his facts. And don't get me started on SG. As for the BPD, I won't feel guilty for thinking some of them were in over their heads and made grave errors that mucked up the investigation early on. It is possible to respect LE and simultaneously acknowledge their flaws. Anything else is fantasy land.


#1452    SuperSmith

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:43 PM

View Post2-B, on 29 November 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

A brief Open Message to SJ Over Yonder:

Shame on you! You claim to care about Ray Gricar. Yet in the same breath, you write a series of posts chastising two contributors who have done more to seek the truth about what happened to Ray Gricar than you could ever begin to understand. Preserving some status quo of posting is without value when it plays favorites, disallows challenges to inaccuracies and to outright lies, and in general leads the public readership down a garden path (or rabbit hole) from which they cannot return.

That is, of course, unless other voices are freely allowed to counter with the truth, or at the very least with questions that might lead readers to question the party line.

Readers deserve access to the entire set of facts, not the cherry-picked and carefully designed tales you have been shaped by. Hundreds and hundreds of these instances have been fed to you, little by little, post by post, and you are not even aware that it has happened.  How clear that is just in your tiny attack asking how these two alleged trouble-makers would feel if their witness accounts and credibility were questioned after reporting a sighting. It's oh so clear that you know little to nothing about this science, oh so clear you're unaware Blogger Boy had ample opportunity to learn from the world's leading expert on this, and oh so clear you're unaware he rejected some 40 years of expert science for his own best "guesses." My blood boils when I see him say things like his recent claim that Gricar holding a laptop in Lewisburg was CONFIRMED in a blog.

Balderdash. And only one tiny item on a huge plate of lies you've been fed.

But you go ahead and call for an atmosphere where no one questions things, where everyone drinks the Kool-Aid and smiles. I'm sure that will help Ray Gricar and those who care about him. /sarcasm font off.

I was just getting ready to PM you about her.  Who heck does she think she is?????????


#1453    2-B

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostSuperSmith, on 29 November 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:



I was just getting ready to PM you about her.  Who heck does she think she is?????????

My apologies to this board for the open letter. But those posts from her I read this morning practically demanded a public response.

Why? In large measure because it became obvious to me this morning that she's a second voice who claims to care about Ray Gricar but doesn't care one whit about him.

I don't know why she's hitched herself to his case. I only know "caring" about Ray Gricar demands digging deep for truth, questioning just about everything, remaining open-minded, and not drinking Kool-Aid sold under the guise of an open mind.

I also think it's totally disrespectful to believe Gricar planned a walkaway designed to fool his family, loved ones, constituents, and LE--and claim that believing him dead is disrespectful.

I guess she thinks his family was totally disrespectful by having him declared dead. Maybe she thinks some Ariel Castro type has been holding him captive as a sex slave for 8.5 years in some house in Cleveland, and one day he'll come running out to freedom and safety.
Or maybe she believes the Slovenian mythology. That's her right. Anyone can ignore truths should they wish. But they should not complain about others seeking actual truths.

My opinion.


#1454    SuperSmith

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:37 PM

Everyone has their own opinion of Carla Baron.  I haven't really formed one as I know little about her work.  She may be a "hack" or "made for TV" but I did learn something today from her blog post regarding her intuitive investigation of Gricar and that is her statements regarding a tan car tailing a Red Mini in Lewisburg.  Apparently this information was told to State police by more than one eye witness and then Baron supposedly reiterated it though she was not privy to that information.  Of course eye-witnesses are just that.  Cannot be confirmed or denied but found it interesting.

Psychic offers impressions regarding missing DA


enissley@centredaily.com
By Erin L. Nissley

Posted on Fri, May. 13, 2005

While talking to Bellefonte police officer Darrel Zaccagni and Barbara Gray, the former wife of missing District Attorney Ray Gricar, psychic Carla Baron said she has "seen" or sensed several things that might be clues as to what happened to the district attorney.

Baron said she "saw" someone smoking a cigarette and possibly leaning into a car. Zaccagni notes that cigarette ashes were found on the front passenger side floor of the red-and-white Mini Cooper Gricar was driving. Gricar did not smoke, and his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola, said he did not allow anyone to smoke in the vehicle.

Baron also gave police a description of a car that she said might have been following Gricar at some point. A few days later, Zaccagni was reading a report from another agency that described a similar car that was mentioned during the investigation into Gricar's disappearance.

Baron, who resides in Los Angeles, did similar work on Ferguson Township's investigation into the disappearance of Penn State student Cindy Song. Baron has made several television appearances to talk about the Cindy Song case, including on Court TV's 'Psychic Detectives."

In terms of what may have happened to Gricar, Baron said she thinks he was murdered. She said she believes he had ample warning but ignored it.

"He stumbled upon information that, unknowingly, was much bigger than other investigations he'd been involved in," she said. She added that she thinks there was more than one person involved, and they may have been upset about an investigation Gricar was mounting.

Zaccagni said much of the information Baron has provided about her impressions of Gricar's personality has been accurate, and that he's gotten approval from the chief to check into a few things that Baron has mentioned.

"The police department is on board with Carla," he said.

http://carlabaron.net/missing2.html

Edited by SuperSmith, 03 December 2013 - 08:38 PM.


#1455    2-B

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:21 PM

View PostSuperSmith, on 03 December 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Everyone has their own opinion of Carla Baron.  I haven't really formed one as I know little about her work.  She may be a "hack" or "made for TV" but I did learn something today from her blog post regarding her intuitive investigation of Gricar and that is her statements regarding a tan car tailing a Red Mini in Lewisburg.  Apparently this information was told to State police by more than one eye witness and then Baron supposedly reiterated it though she was not privy to that information.  Of course eye-witnesses are just that.  Cannot be confirmed or denied but found it interesting.

Psychic offers impressions regarding missing DA


enissley@centredaily.com
By Erin L. Nissley

Posted on Fri, May. 13, 2005

While talking to Bellefonte police officer Darrel Zaccagni and Barbara Gray, the former wife of missing District Attorney Ray Gricar, psychic Carla Baron said she has "seen" or sensed several things that might be clues as to what happened to the district attorney.

Baron said she "saw" someone smoking a cigarette and possibly leaning into a car. Zaccagni notes that cigarette ashes were found on the front passenger side floor of the red-and-white Mini Cooper Gricar was driving. Gricar did not smoke, and his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola, said he did not allow anyone to smoke in the vehicle.

Baron also gave police a description of a car that she said might have been following Gricar at some point. A few days later, Zaccagni was reading a report from another agency that described a similar car that was mentioned during the investigation into Gricar's disappearance.

Baron, who resides in Los Angeles, did similar work on Ferguson Township's investigation into the disappearance of Penn State student Cindy Song. Baron has made several television appearances to talk about the Cindy Song case, including on Court TV's 'Psychic Detectives."

In terms of what may have happened to Gricar, Baron said she thinks he was murdered. She said she believes he had ample warning but ignored it.

"He stumbled upon information that, unknowingly, was much bigger than other investigations he'd been involved in," she said. She added that she thinks there was more than one person involved, and they may have been upset about an investigation Gricar was mounting.

Zaccagni said much of the information Baron has provided about her impressions of Gricar's personality has been accurate, and that he's gotten approval from the chief to check into a few things that Baron has mentioned.

"The police department is on board with Carla," he said.

http://carlabaron.net/missing2.html

If you haven't read this version, you'll probably want to:

http://www.prweb.com...prweb247770.htm

I'll abstain from comments re Baron. However, the tan car reported to Milton barracks has long interested me in light of the tan or silver car in the Fenton sighting and of course much later the silver cars that keep showing up connected to JS.

And I swear there was an early, now scrubbed, article which referred to this car tailing a red Mini on Route 80, but it's long gone. For some reason I vaguely remember Logic having the same vague memory. LOL. Maybe she can confirm or deny.

FTR, I believe someone in particular turned this into an encounter in Lewisburg. I do not remember it starting out that way, whether it was Baron's vision version or the reported version. I could be wrong, but that's not how I remember it.





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