567 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

I am not one to start yet another thread about Atlantis, but someone (I think it was Still Waters) started a thread about the use of the Egyptian Udjat sign/hieroglyph for depicting fractions in ancient Egyptian calculus. I knew of that use of the Udjat sign for that purpose, and I posted an image from a site.

Well, I read other pages of that (fringe?) site, and something amazing showed up...

Plato was the one and only to coin the name "Atlantis" as some kind of mythical land/continent.

He himself said that "Atlantis" was the Greek translation of the Egyptian name, so you would not expect to find a similar or even the same name in ancient Egyptian texts.

I expect that this thread will be short lived, lol, for someone more knowledgable in Egyptian hieroglyphs will shoot it down when in sight. I do have to mention, though, that the guy I am going to quote from, Clesson H. Harvey, claims to have studied Egyptian hierogplyphs on a professional level.

Ok, here it is:


Nedit Atlantis

Utterances 332, 335-336, 422-432, 437-438, 440-455 and 589-590 belonged exclusively to the West wall of the King's Chamber, where the Aker-Sphinx is again involved in 437 and what looks like Plato's Atlantis is twice referred to in 422 and 442.


422

754b. ...ii comes netjer the god, ii comes netjer the god, ii so that come Pepi pen will such a Candidate her in charge of neset the throne Usir of the Activator of the Eye,
754c.ii so that come akh pu will such a Spirit,imi who was in Nedit Atlantis, sekhem a power imi who was in Ta ur the Land of the gray mahatma (also a duplicate district in Southern Egypt).

442

819a. ...kher fallen er ef as to himself, ti verily ur pu is such a gray mahatma her in charge of ges ef his half nedi and overthrown er ef as to himself imi is he who was in Nedit Atlantis,
819b. shezep so that accepted o ek may be your control in by Ro the Godhead.



Utterances 253-259, 467-468, 471-483 and 487 belonged exclusively to the West wall of the Queen's Chamber, where another Aker-Sphinx text is found in 483 and two more Atlantis references in 468 and 482.

468

899a. onekh Usir The Activator of the Eye lives, onekh akh the Spirit lives imi who was in Nedit Atlantis, onekh so that live Pepi pen may such a Candidate.

482

1008c. (the same Eye) zekhenet which searches for tju you gemet which finds tju you her in charge of ges ek your half her was in charge of udjeb the shore Nedit of Atlantis.


http://www.pyramidte...om/article5.htm

https://docs.google....I-RQbYeCg&pli=1

http://www.protoquan...knowledgment/2/


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EDIT:

It was indeed Still Waters who started the thread about the Udjat:

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=226839


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Edited by Abramelin, 11 May 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Abramelin]

Must be me, but I expected all the "Atlantis believers" would have jumped on this one.

Kmt_sesh, where are you ,man?

You are the one to say the translation was rubbish.

[Leonardo]

Utterance 422:

Quote

754b. they recite: "A god comes, a god comes, N. comes (who shall be) on the throne of Osiris,
754c. that spirit comes who is in Ndi.t, that power which is in the Thinite nome."

Utterance 442:

Quote

819a. To say: That Great One is certainly fallen on his side; be who is in Ndi.t is thrown down.
819b. Thine arm is seized by Rē‘; thy head is lifted up by the Two Enneads.

Utterance 468:

Quote

899a. Osiris lives, the spirit who is in Ndi.t lives, N. lives

Utterance 482:

Quote

1008c. who sought thee, who found thee upon thy side on the shore of Ndi.t,

Source

The Pyramid Texts vol 1, 1952. Translation by Samuel Mercer.

Not a mention of Atlantis in them. Seems a bit fishy the site you quote inserts 'Atlantis' where it doesn't seem to exist, Abe.

Edited by Leonardo, 11 May 2012 - 02:39 PM.

[Abramelin]

The guy suggests the other translators left it out because they did not know what to make of it.

Now I can't read hieroglyphs, so I can't judge who is right or who is wrong.

But just quoting another translation won't work.

It just tells us people have a different idea about how to translate those texts.

[Leonardo]

Abramelin, on 11 May 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

The guy suggests the other translators left it out because they did not know what to make of it.

Now I can't read hieroglyphs, so I can't judge who is right or who is wrong.

But just quoting another translation won't work.

It just tells us people have a different idea about how to translate those texts.

Well, the 1952 translations still have the Ndi.t that is mentioned (albiet reconstructed to say Nedit) in the 'translation' you posted, but there is no other or following word representing the "Atlantis" that site inserts.

I would conclude from that it is not a case of multiple translations differing but the person who posted the 'translations' on the site you mention did not translate anything, but simply inserted "Atlantis" where it has no right to be.

Apparently, the current standard translations are from 1969 by one R. Faulkner, but these are not available in the public domain. I do not know if they differ in any significant way to the 1952 Mercer translations.

[cormac mac airt]

"The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts" by James P. Allen also do not show the use of the word Atlantis.

cormac

[Abramelin]

Guys, I am not saying I do not appreciate what you the two of you have posted, but I think you will agree with me it is better that someone like Kmt_sesh, who may have seen and read (and maybe translated)  those texts. will have a better understanding where this Harvey came from, who he is, and why he thought "Atlantis" was a word that was left out by others.


Yes, of course, Kmt-Sesh's opinion about the text will be another opinion too, but at least we can discuss with him live. And that is better than quoting from a book.


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Edited by Abramelin, 11 May 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Harte]

Unlikely that the pyramid texts, which predate the Greeks, would use a greek word.

Harte

[questionmark]

Harte, on 11 May 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Unlikely that the pyramid texts, which predate the Greeks, would use a greek word.

Harte

Less unlikely that somebody has not run into this some time ago were it factual.

Edited by questionmark, 11 May 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[Harte]

I should say they predate the Greeks as a political unit.

They also predate the dates (that we know of) when the Egyptians came into contact with the Greeks (around 800 BC, IIRC.)

Obviously there could have been contact before then - and probably was - but what I'm remembering here is when trade was first established, I think.

Harte

[questionmark]

Harte, on 11 May 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

I should say they predate the Greeks as a political unit.

They also predate the dates (that we know of) when the Egyptians came into contact with the Greeks (around 800 BC, IIRC.)

Obviously there could have been contact before then - and probably was - but what I'm remembering here is when trade was first established, I think.

Harte

ehm, yes, but I was talking about an archeologist or translator running into that. It is beyond question that the name Atlantis is a Greek creation (and probably the only language where the name has a real context).

[Harte]

No question.

I was just trying to self-correct.

Harte

[Leonardo]

Abramelin, on 11 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Guys, I am not saying I do not appreciate what you the two of you have posted, but I think you will agree with me it is better that someone like Kmt_sesh, who may have seen and read (and maybe translated)  those texts. will have a better understanding where this Harvey came from, who he is, and why he thought "Atlantis" was a word that was left out by others.


Yes, of course, Kmt-Sesh's opinion about the text will be another opinion too, but at least we can discuss with him live. And that is better than quoting from a book.


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Then, with all due respect, if you simply wanted only kmt's opinion, why did you not PM kmt with your query?

[hooko22]

Abramelin, on 11 May 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Must be me, but I expected all the "Atlantis believers" would have jumped on this one.

Kmt_sesh, where are you ,man?

You are the one to say the translation was rubbish.

Well you don't really have to be a believer to be fascinated by the subject.

[3amfright]

Just a small input,

but "Atlantis" does not have to be a word coined by greeks. Used most in greek culture & the only one constantly referenced? Yes. Solely greek based? Maybe not.

For Example:

The Aztecs have a Goddess named Atlatonan

"Ah" & "Atla" are common base points for cultures. I'm going to throw out a wild assumption & say "ah" was an easy part of developoing language so it would not be unreasonable to assume variations attached to those would exist, including mutliple cultures turning them into Atlas, Atlantas, Atla, Atlatonan & so forth. The Egyptians have Anubus, why could they not also have a lesser God/Goddes/Mythical Location & so forth starting off with "Atla" that someone could (in translation) assume refers to Atlantis?

I'm not saying there is a connection between the Egyptians, Plato & Atlantis except what Plato himself has said. The people of the land where Egypt sits have spent a long time growing & elvoving & many cultures have come & gone & many more we are still just learning about. *Shrugs* For a we know there really are books or scrolls sealed in the paw of Sphinx containing tales with more gods & cultures & places than we ever knew about before. Maybe one of them mentions an "Atlantis" we don't know of yet.