158 replies to this topic

[SSilhouette]

There are conflicting accounts.  Which is unfortunate.  Which one to believe eh?  Then you look at the clever artist of the last supper.  At Jesus's right hand is a woman:



You read the account naming just three women "near the cross" [conflicting with more people and the three women being "afar".]  You read accounts of the other disciples specifically naming Magdalene as closest to Jesus, his "beloved disciple" ...the talk of jealousy from other disciples of how close she was to Jesus...do the math..And look at the picture.

Edited by SSilhouette, 27 September 2012 - 03:04 AM.

[docyabut2]

How would a artist of the 15 century know? And please don`t give me that Dan Brown stuff :)  its  been proven he was all wrong.

[questionmark]

in related news:

Washington Post said:

VATICAN CITY — The Vatican newspaper has added to the doubts surrounding Harvard University’s claim that a 4th century Coptic papyrus fragment showed that some early Christians believed that Jesus was married, declaring it a “fake.”

The newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, published an article Thursday by leading Coptic scholar Alberto Camplani and an accompanying editorial by the newspaper’s editor, Giovanni Maria Vian, an expert in early Christianity. They both cited concerns expressed by other scholars about the fragment’s authenticity and the fact that it was purchased on the market without a known archaeological provenance.

“At any rate, a fake,” Vian entitled his editorial, which criticized Harvard for creating a “clamorous” media frenzy over the fragment by handing the scoop to two U.S. newspapers only to see “specialists immediately question it.”

Read more

As we are surprised

[Jackofalltrades]

I highly doubt that the Vatican city is going to acknowledge the fragment as real if they want to keep its follower's from jumping ship

If they acknowledge the fragment as real then they (the Vatican) prove themselve's to be deceitful and dishonest, which in my opinion they will NEVER say it is real even if it is real

[SSilhouette]

How would an artist of the 15th Century know?   Maybe by reading the same passage at the crucifixion where only three women are named there and Jesus addresses one of them as "the beloved disciple"...and Philip's accounts of Magdalene being Jesus's favorite disciple.  And of all the disciples given large family histories only "John the anonymous beloved disciple" is given without any history at all.  Funny tribute to a "man" who was the closest to Jesus, while his lessors were given the red-carpet treatment.  Maybe Da Vinci knew how to read?  Or more importantly, maybe he also knew how to read between the lines..

Maybe he studied the gnostic gospels and using those accounts did the painting?  If you look closely, you see there appears to be a division centered precisely over the presence of Magdalene next to Jesus.  The one's to the right seem to be pointing accusing fingers in her direction.  The ones on the left seem to be consoling her.  While Jesus seems to be sitting in the middle with a look on his face that says, "Oh Jesus, not this again *sigh*..."...lol

Edited by SSilhouette, 28 September 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[Dr. D]

SSilhouette, on 28 September 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

How would an artist of the 15th Century know?   Maybe by reading the same passage at the crucifixion where only three women are named there and Jesus addresses one of them as "the beloved disciple"...and Philip's accounts of Magdalene being Jesus's favorite disciple.  And of all the disciples given large family histories only "John the anonymous beloved disciple" is given without any history at all.  Funny tribute to a "man" who was the closest to Jesus, while his lessors were given the red-carpet treatment.  Maybe Da Vinci knew how to read?  Or more importantly, maybe he also knew how to read between the lines..

Maybe he studied the gnostic gospels and using those accounts did the painting?  If you look closely, you see there appears to be a division centered precisely over the presence of Magdalene next to Jesus.  The one's to the right seem to be pointing accusing fingers in her direction.  The ones on the left seem to be consoling her.  While Jesus seems to be sitting in the middle with a look on his face that says, "Oh Jesus, not this again *sigh*..."...lol

I first want to qualify this response by saying it is not my opinion, rather that of others.

Leonardo’s esoteric interests and orientation have now been well established.  He has been described as an early Rosicrucian.  His biographer, Vasari, called him a man with “an heretical cast of mind.”  He subscribed to, for example, the ancient tradition that Jesus had a twin and in his Last Supper, he painted two identical Christs.  He is also listed as the 12^th grand master of the secret organization, the Prieure de Sion.  If he was indeed the grand master, it is more than possible that he had access to ancient information and references.

[docyabut2]

As a Christan I like to know the truth of the matter if Jesus was married, however nothing points to it.  The later gospic writers and painters want to make him more out of  man then a god, but that does not make him as married as  nessasarily true.

The gospel of John gives the witness as a man standing at the cross, the beloved?  


John-19 35  And he that saw [it] bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

Edited by docyabut2, 29 September 2012 - 02:31 AM.

[SSilhouette]

Of course it did!  It's the redacted gospel.  ..lol..

[docyabut2]

Perhaps Joesph and Mary were of the Essenes that did not always marry, until the census was required for the taxes. Jesus may have been a Essene and and chose not to marry.

[Dr. D]

docyabut2, on 29 September 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Perhaps Joesph and Mary were of the Essenes that did not always marry, until the census was required for the taxes. Jesus may have been a Essene and and chose not to marry.

Josephus tells that the Essenes lived in "great numbers" throughout Roman Judea. Their policy of welcoming anyone into their community could well be where Jesus was during his missing years.  Some of the Essenes promoted the idea of celibacy which might explain why Jesus would have been unmarried (if we are to accept old Church tradition).

[questionmark]

Dr. D, on 29 September 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

Josephus tells that the Essenes lived in "great numbers" throughout Roman Judea. Their policy of welcoming anyone into their community could well be where Jesus was during his missing years.  Some of the Essenes promoted the idea of celibacy which might explain why Jesus would have been unmarried (if we are to accept old Church tradition).

Your problem here is "could" and "would". The papyrus fragment, on the other hand, is pretty real.

[Dr. D]

questionmark, on 29 September 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Your problem here is "could" and "would". The papyrus fragment, on the other hand, is pretty real.

As far as I know the dating research is not yet complete.

[Blue Star]

What will people argue over next?....A scrap of pulped leaf with some scrawl inked on it, the size of a credit card.....Oh, wait!!!!!

[Parsec]

questionmark, on 27 September 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

in related news:



As we are surprised

If you're interested in the original article, here you can find the link to the official Vatican journal (in English):
http://www.osservato...eriva&locale=en

I agree with questionmark, what an unusual answer from them, isn't it?

[Dr. D]

For the traditional church, claims of Jesus marriage rank with all other heresies.  Their problem is that in modern times they can't solve it in the same way as they did with the Cathars.