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5yr old kills Sister with Gift


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#76    freetoroam

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

View PostStar of the Sea, on 02 May 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

I can't wrap my head round it Freetoroam! Whilst I respect the American folks to have their rights to their own gun culture. I can't help but think that the most dangerous thing here in the UK that we buy for our kids for birthday's etc is probably a trampoline :unsure2:
Its a completely different way of life, I am just glad we are not in a position where we believe leaving our child alone in a house with guns about which are not locked away and are at the ready for the child to use in case of an intruder, to be acceptable and responsible behavior!  You see, personally, if I felt my child could be left in danger in the first place because of my absence, then I would NOT go out in the first place! let alone leave a gun for them to use....just in case!
I can`t get my head round it either.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#77    questionmark

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

View PostKowalski, on 02 May 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Well, what about BB guns?

I mean, kids that are 7 or 8 like BB guns. A Christmas Story ring a bell? You'll shoot your eye out kid! My husband and I bought our 10 year old nephew a BB gun, last year at Christmas. He lives in the city, but he loves it!
There kinda what every little boy wants. And BB guns are marketed to kids. Heck, their are even pink camo ones! (I want one of those, I love pink camo. I know! I'm weird)
So, does anyone have a problem with BB guns? Just asking a question, is all. I understand that there is a huge difference in a .22 and a BB gun. Just asking a question guys.

That is quite simple, a normal BB gun has about 15 joules of muzzle energy (or 11 foot pounds), enough to cause some injury but hardly something really serious, the average .22, to the contrary, with its muzzle energy of 141 joules (or roughly the tenfold of a BB gun) can kill you at a distance further than anybody can shoot it straight. And even with BB guns nobody should let a child 5 years old unsupervised, twice that age is not even really safe.

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#78    Kowalski

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:41 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 02 May 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

That is quite simple, a normal BB gun has about 15 joules of muzzle energy (or 11 foot pounds), enough to cause some injury but hardly something really serious, the average .22, to the contrary, with its muzzle energy of 141 joules (or roughly the tenfold of a BB gun) can kill you at a distance further than anybody can shoot it straight. And even with BB guns nobody should let a child 5 years old unsupervised, twice that age is not even really safe.

I get what you are saying. Big difference in .22s and BB guns. And, as I said in my last post, I think 5 is quite too young to be having a .22 gun in their hands with NO supervision. That's just stupid.
But as for marketing to kids guns, I think BB guns are perfectly acceptable. I think .22s should be reserved for people who are a lot older than five, and under the supervision of a parent. And these guns should not be treated as toys either. They're not.
It just, to me, sounded like people were saying guns should look scary, and not be marketed to kids, when I think BB guns are totally fine to do this with. That's all.


#79    questionmark

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:44 PM

View PostKowalski, on 02 May 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

I get what you are saying. Big difference in .22s and BB guns. And, as I said in my last post, I think 5 is quite too young to be having a .22 gun in their hands with NO supervision. That's just stupid.
But as for marketing to kids guns, I think BB guns are perfectly acceptable. I think .22s should be reserved for people who are a lot older than five, and under the supervision of a parent. And these guns should not be treated as toys either. They're not.
It just, to me, sounded like people were saying guns should look scary, and not be marketed to kids, when I think BB guns are totally fine to do this with. That's all.

No kid under 14 should ever have a gun in his hands without a parent standing immediately behind it. But some parents are just big kids.

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#80    Rafterman

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:47 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 02 May 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

So, if a guy, on the way to beat up his girlfriend, hits a kid with his car it is not an accident either?

That is number cosmetics done to avoid showing the evident: most people are neither capable nor qualified and utterly unable of properly of using a gun. Including criminals.

Take it up with the Federal Government.  Those are their definitions.  I believe it has to do with intent, but I'm not an attorney.

And your second sentence is just absurd.  When it comes to accidents (US Government Definition) the rates compared to the number of firearms owned by the general public aren't even statistically significant (a few hundred vs 300 million).  Clearly gun owners are some of the safest and responsible groups on the planet.  You can't even argue against that.

And even if you take the total number of gun deaths (accidents, illegal use, legal use, and suicides), the numbers vs 300 million guns in private hands barely show up on the graph.

Again, what happened in Kentucky was tragic, but it is no more a condemnation of gun owners than having an unrestrained child killed in a car accident being a condemnation of drivers.

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#81    Rafterman

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:51 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 02 May 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

And make sure that actual grown-ups buy them.

Do you guys really think that children walk into Wal-Mart and buy guns?

Seriously?

You guys are aware that it wasn't even legal for Adam Lanza to buy the guns he used in Newtown.

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#82    third_eye

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:09 PM

kids should just be allowed to just be kids and not be dragged into this 'constitutional rights' of choice or not ...
kinda same with those garment and cosmetic marketing ploys targeting preteen 'fashion freedom' to dress or wear 'sexy' like 'grown ups'  ...

there should be a boundary to what free market profit interests have priority over when it comes to the well being of children, everywhere

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#83    little_dreamer

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:14 PM

Five years old is just too young for a gun.   Kids that age don't even understand what death is.

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#84    Arbenol

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:17 PM

Posted Image

Aaaaaaaaahh!!!!

Aren't they just adorable!


#85    Kowalski

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:47 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 02 May 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

No kid under 14 should ever have a gun in his hands without a parent standing immediately behind it. But some parents are just big kids.

I just hope you mean "guns" by anything .22 or up. I think a BB gun is okay for kids under 14. But, yes .22s and anything more lethal, should be suprivised by an adult. Guns are NOT TOYS, either. I was brought up with a great respect for guns. But, I think BB guns should be okay for kids. I mean it was okay in past, to buy a 9 year old a BB gun. What's wrong with that? That's all I've been trying to say throughout my posts. I'm sorry if some people are taking my words out of context. Five year olds should not be allowed to "play" with .22s. That's stupid. And You can't fix stupid.


#86    aztek

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:03 AM

View PostJ. K., on 02 May 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Since an accident occurrence of zero is "unachievable" and to work toward lessening those occurrences is "pointless" and "counterproductive", could you tell me what number or percentage is acceptable in the real world?

"Then we can talk how to improve real world" - if you believe that accidents are unavoidable, then why waste time working on improvements?

unachievable, true, but did i say any work pointless??? no.

measure offered, is pointless and counterproductive, and proven such,

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#87    green_dude777

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:05 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 02 May 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

No kid under 14 should ever have a gun in his hands without a parent standing immediately behind it. But some parents are just big kids.

View Postfreetoroam, on 02 May 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Its a completely different way of life, I am just glad we are not in a position where we believe leaving our child alone in a house with guns about which are not locked away and are at the ready for the child to use in case of an intruder, to be acceptable and responsible behavior!  You see, personally, if I felt my child could be left in danger in the first place because of my absence, then I would NOT go out in the first place! let alone leave a gun for them to use....just in case!
I can`t get my head round it either.

View Postthird_eye, on 02 May 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

kids should just be allowed to just be kids and not be dragged into this 'constitutional rights' of choice or not ...
kinda same with those garment and cosmetic marketing ploys targeting preteen 'fashion freedom' to dress or wear 'sexy' like 'grown ups'  ...

there should be a boundary to what free market profit interests have priority over when it comes to the well being of children, everywhere

What was this kid thinking?  He should've just been being a kid instead of defending himself and his mother.

http://www.valleycen...71#.UYL-FTfySRN

I guess it was OK since the mother didn't leave him home alone, and she was 'standing' behind him.  :-*


#88    green_dude777

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:17 AM

http://www.dailytexa...th-bb-gun††-††I wish the boy had access to a .22 long rifle in this situation.

http://www.snopes.co...n.asp††-††Found this article checking into the authenticity of an 11 year old defending the home, and there's two more verified of juveniles defending the home, one was 11.

http://www.theblaze....enix/#††-††This one is 14


Personally, if I had a kid, I would be proud of the level head and courage they displayed if they were one of the above.

Not sure to make of what some of you would do, maybe call for the parents or the kid to get arrested since they possessed a firearm before the age of 18?


#89    Kowalski

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:35 AM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 03 May 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

What was this kid thinking?  He should've just been being a kid instead of defending himself and his mother.

http://www.valleycen...71#.UYL-FTfySRN

I guess it was OK since the mother didn't leave him home alone, and she was 'standing' behind him.  :-*

View Postgreen_dude777, on 03 May 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

http://www.dailytexa...th-bb-gun††-††I wish the boy had access to a .22 long rifle in this situation.

http://www.snopes.co...n.asp††-††Found this article checking into the authenticity of an 11 year old defending the home, and there's two more verified of juveniles defending the home, one was 11.

http://www.theblaze....enix/#††-††This one is 14


Personally, if I had a kid, I would be proud of the level head and courage they displayed if they were one of the above.

Not sure to make of what some of you would do, maybe call for the parents or the kid to get arrested since they possessed a firearm before the age of 18?

You're very right. :tu:


#90    Thanato

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:54 AM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 03 May 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

http://www.dailytexa...th-bb-gun††-††I wish the boy had access to a .22 long rifle in this situation.

http://www.snopes.co...n.asp††-††Found this article checking into the authenticity of an 11 year old defending the home, and there's two more verified of juveniles defending the home, one was 11.

http://www.theblaze....enix/#††-††This one is 14


Personally, if I had a kid, I would be proud of the level head and courage they displayed if they were one of the above.

Not sure to make of what some of you would do, maybe call for the parents or the kid to get arrested since they possessed a firearm before the age of 18?

There is a difference between a 14 year old using a firearm in self defence and a 5 year old playing with a loaded gun.

For one the 14 year old has 9 more years of experience and probably has probably grown up to respect the firearm, though that is speculation on the last part.

The 5 year old was just playing with the gun, which was loaded. Gun's are not toys they are tools, dangerous and deadly tools.

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