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Drunk teen killed


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#16    AsteroidX

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:09 PM

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Guns aren't defensive weapons

In this case the homeowner used "self defense" with his weapon....whatever it may have been to protect his home and family. If it was not a self defense weapon then he would have been thrown in jail for murder.

The person that drives up on the sidewalk and runs down 20 people sure did use his car as a weapon.

Its not the object it is the individual behind it that decides the intent.


#17    Insaniac

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 18 March 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

That barely makes sense.

If someone has a gun and is shooting at you and you have a gun to defend yourself back with,then exactly what do you define as being defensive?

It does not change the fact if it was itended to be a weapon or not several use them as weapons every year,it also does not change the fact that people die from them either.Just remember guns do not roam around in packs looking to hurt people  :tu:

I made perfect sense. You misunderstand what the term "defensive weapon" means.

~

A sword, is a defensive weapon.

It's a weapon used to behead, impale and slay the enemy, all the while used to parry, to block, to defend it's wielder. ie: A defensive weapon.

A gun doesn't shield you against oncoming attacks, as a defensive weapon would. It can only be used to offend. ie: An offensive weapon.

Why do you think bulletproof vests exist?

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4

#18    Kowalski

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:11 PM

View Postpallidin, on 18 March 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Huh. Yeah, I guess hind-sight is 20/20.

But if someone was crawling through my window in the middle of the night, I have to be honest: the last thing I would think of is that he's an unarmed drunk at the wrong house.

And if there was my wife and children in the house, I think I would be ultra-protective. Not sure if I would shoot him, but I damn sure would at least hold him at gunpoint 'till the police arrived.

The problem is, though, I wouldn't know if there are more of them outside waiting to get in, so, maybe I would react violently.

I don't know. Never been in that situation and hope I never am.


I agree. When you have a family, you don't have the luxury of taking the chance that it might to NOT be a burgler. Like my daddy says: It's better to be judged by 12, then carried by six.
Also, this kid was in HIGH SCHOOL. If he's a minor, he's not supposed to be drinking. I have to ask where the parents are at. If I snuck out to go get drunk with friends when I was in high school, my daddy would have ripped me a new one, that's for sure!


#19    Collateral Damage

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:16 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:



I made perfect sense. You misunderstand what the term "defensive weapon" means.

~

A sword, is a defensive weapon.

It's a weapon used to behead, impale and slay the enemy, all the while used to parry, to block, to defend it's wielder. ie: A defensive weapon.

A gun doesn't shield you against oncoming attacks, as a defensive weapon would. It can only be used to offend. ie: An offensive weapon.

Why do you think bulletproof vests exist?
That's just like saying a sword is an offensive weapon only. Why do you think body armor existed?

Undated letter from J.F.K. said:

   "War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

      "The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten."

#20    CrimsonKing

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

I made perfect sense. You misunderstand what the term "defensive weapon" means.

~

A sword, is a defensive weapon.

It's a weapon used to behead, impale and slay the enemy, all the while used to parry, to block, to defend it's wielder. ie: A defensive weapon.

A gun doesn't shield you against oncoming attacks, as a defensive weapon would. It can only be used to offend. ie: An offensive weapon.

Why do you think bulletproof vests exist?

We do not live in feudal japan though,terms for defending ones self have changed.Bullet proof vest are not easy to get by most civilians,so shooting back is your best defense.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#21    Kowalski

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:21 PM

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A car isn't intended to be a weapon. The only reason people shouldn't be allowed cars is because most pollute the environment.

A car most certainly can be used as a weapon. Just ask the guy in the Carrie Underwood Music video, "Two Black Cadallics."  :yes:



Edited by Kowalski, 18 March 2013 - 06:25 PM.


#22    Insaniac

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 18 March 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

We do not live in feudal japan though,terms for defending ones self have changed.Bullet proof vest are not easy to get by most civilians,so shooting back is your best defense.

Makes no difference. Maybe you twisted the definition for "defensive/offensive" weapons in America, but the rest of the world still uses it.

And so what if bulletproof vests aren't easy to obtain, they were still invented to provide something a gun cannot - A means of defence.

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4

#23    Insaniac

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostKowalski, on 18 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

A car most certainly be used as a weapon. Just ask the guy in the Carrie Underwood Music video, "Two Black Cadallics."  :yes:

I didn't say a car couldn't be used as a weapon. I said they were not designed with the intention to be used as weapons, which they weren't. They are designed as a mode of transportation.

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4

#24    CrimsonKing

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:29 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Makes no difference. Maybe you twisted the definition for "defensive/offensive" weapons in America, but the rest of the world still uses it.

And so what if bulletproof vests aren't easy to obtain, they were still invented to provide something a gun cannot - A means of defence.

Ok that is why most of the world has standing armies to defend themselves.I never knew the UK soldiers just went out with shields to deflect bullets in WW2 must be why the US was called in.All makes sense now thanks for the riveting definition of the word defensive today.You have really opened my eyes  :w00t:

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#25    Michelle

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:30 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Makes no difference. Maybe you twisted the definition for "defensive/offensive" weapons in America, but the rest of the world still uses it.

So, were guns invented for hunting or were they invented to keep a bear from killing you?


#26    Insaniac

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:34 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 18 March 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

Ok that is why most of the world has standing armies to defend themselves.I never knew the UK soldiers just went out with shields to deflect bullets in WW2 must be why the US was called in.All makes sense now thanks for the riveting definition of the word defensive today.You have really opened my eyes  :w00t:

By "defend themselves" you mean dodge bullets and massacre the enemy?

Again, misunderstanding the definition of 'defensive/offensive.'


Self defence =/= Dodging bullets.

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4

#27    CrimsonKing

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:34 PM

View PostKowalski, on 18 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

A car most certainly can be used as a weapon. Just ask the guy in the Carrie Underwood Music video, "Two Black Cadallics."  :yes:



I have experienced one trying to run me over before and i didnt anything other than slightly make her angry haha.But it was not intended for that purpose so no harm no foul.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#28    Insaniac

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:36 PM

View PostMichelle, on 18 March 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

So, were guns invented for hunting or were they invented to keep a bear from killing you?

Guns were invented as a means of killing the target. - Causing offence and dominating Man/Animal to it's injury.

They were designed with the intent to slaughter and nothing more.

If you need to defend yourself against a bear, you are no Hunter.

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4

#29    aztek

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:37 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Like Orcseeker said, it's the "shoot first, ask questions later" coward-mentality that is the problem. That, and being dumb enough to get drunk in the first place. Both of them are idiotic.

Guns don't shoot themselves so I hold the home owner at fault. Should've asked the intruder what his intentions were.
nether you nor Orcseeker were there to know what exactly happened, so spare us your " "shoot first, ask questions later" coward-mentality" bs.
for all we know he could be attacking the owners because they were in "his?" house, to him. or not, we JUST DON'T KNOW THE FACTS.
the problem is not  with people defending their homes with a gun, but with yours and Orcseeker's mentality, you always know better sitting on your butt at home, than ppl that actually were there,

Edited by aztek, 18 March 2013 - 06:39 PM.

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#30    CrimsonKing

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

By "defend themselves" you mean dodge bullets and massacre the enemy?

Again, misunderstanding the definition of 'defensive/offensive.'


Self defence =/= Dodging bullets.

LMAO hahaha thats good stuff man i wont sit here and argue with ya.If your ever confronted by someone with a gun just use those super powers im sure you will be allright :tu:  

If i am confronted by someone with a gun or breaking into my house in the middle of the night  :gun:

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu




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