U.S. Fire Arms laws and regulations

[AsteroidX]

sakari I had this conversation last night with a couple gents from AutZ. Its prolly around page 7 or so. LoL. They seemed to be thrilled about gun control until I queestioned about there Australian Homeland Security and what sort of powers they had....Well in fact they dont have a Homeland Security..There rights arent being trampled because there guns are gone. They have in effect without being rude already been pacified.

Im looking at things atm like we got a big X on our backs in America and they might be colming this time.

[Maizer]

This country was set up the way it was to not repeat the mistakes of past nations.

Our founding fathers, although political geniuses, were still men, and susceptible to mistakes.

Popular sovereignty, fair representation, liberty, the right to redress the government, privacy, an efficient system of bicameralism...

These concepts are the basis of our country as the ideal intellectual, political, and religious platform...

I agree. Nobodies perfect. Founding fathers were so close.

[Sakari]

Yeah talk with Aussies and they'll say the gun ban was a great thing. In fact, I share my office with one. Oh and your article is from a site that says 'JOIN GUNS AND SHOOTING ONLINE' with no facts to back its statements up.

Look at Japan. less than 20 gun incidents a year.

Look at China. Man goes knife crazy at elementary school. 0 children killed.

China is Communist...Not a good example....

Anyway, going to eat soon, and will check into Australia......One thing I do, is I go by facts, never make claims as fact unless I know.

The claim that following the gun ban Australia experienced big increases in crime has been refuted as an urban legend at www.snopes.com, a website that is devoted to exposing urban legends. "Given this context, any claims based on statistics (even accurate ones) which posit a cause-and-effect relationship between the gun buyback program and increased crime rates because 'criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed' are automatically suspect, since the average Australian citizen didn't own firearms even before the buyback." (source). Australia's homicide rate is lower than the homicide rate in the US and there has been little variation in Australia's homicide rate since their gun buyback (source).

[Drayno]

I agree. Nobodies perfect. Founding fathers were so close.

Their shortcomings are made up through the accessibility of the Constitution.

Again, the Constitution can changed, but certain amendments, like the second, cannot be infringed.

[Maizer]

China is Communist...Not a good example....

Haha you think democracy or communism matters with crazy person at an elementary school? The only difference is one country allowed guns everywhere.

[Maizer]

Their shortcomings are made up through the accessibility of the Constitution.

Again, the Constitution can changed, but certain amendments, like the second, cannot be infringed.

It will, and should be. If we are to create a better future for our kids.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Maizer

[Sakari]

Well, just a start......But, remember, they still own guns, they did not ban them as people here keep saying we need to do.

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2012/12/after_a_1996_mass_shooting_aus.html

[Drayno]

It will, and should be. If we are to create a better future for our kids.

So long as you don't infringe upon my personal right to bear arms, we can have mutual respect.

For that's the basis of America; you respect my rights, I respect your rights.

I don't outvote you through democracy, because I am no wolf, and you are no sheep... For the most part.

At least, I don't have malevolent intentions, anyways.

[Sakari]

Haha you think democracy or communism matters with crazy person at an elementary school? The only difference is one country allowed guns everywhere.

Yes, you are comparing apples to oranges

[F3SS]

Hey guys, sorry to stir it up a bit about fingerprint tech built into triggers. Was only trying a suggestion as per the point of this thread.

I also like the suggestion of teachers having guns in schools. Not mandatory though. They aren't police and shouldn't be expected to be heroes. However, on a voluntary basis I think that if allowed, in most every school there would be at least a few teachers who would volunteer to go through proper training to be permitted to act as emergency security. A battery of psyche tests to assure no loose cannon teachers can further participate and training similar to standard police procedures for these types of situations followed by official certification and perhaps some monetary benefit. Also, it should be fully anonymous between the volunteers and the heads of the school districts. I think the volunteers should know about each other in the case of emergency coordination. That alone would prevent many future perpetrators from entering a school knowing that somebody but not exactly who is packing heat with their name on it.

This board isn't the only board I'm on, and the vast majority of the arguments made against mine have been laughed at or debunked everywhere else.

And I hope, for everyone's children s sake, that we won't have armed guards with RPG's in every kindergarten, which is what gun proponents would rather have than have their toys taken away.

See the above. You know full well that guns won't disappear banned or not so why not take precautionary measures where these things happen to kids the most?

[Sakari]

Haha you think democracy or communism matters with crazy person at an elementary school? The only difference is one country allowed guns everywhere.

Are you really that dumb?

Pro-democracy demonstrations in 1989 in Beijing’s mammoth Tiananmen Square led to a violent crackdown by the Chinese army that killed perhaps several hundred people and shocked the world. Hardly anyone thought the government would treat its own citizens so harshly. The suppression was followed by attempts to seize and punish people connected with the protests, especially the student organizers. Some were executed, and others were still being held almost 20 years later, as China hosted the 2008 Olympic Games.

[Maizer]

So long as you don't infringe upon my personal right to bear arms, we can have mutual respect.

For that's the basis of America; you respect my rights, I respect your rights.

I don't outvote you through democracy, because I am no wolf, and you are no sheep... For the most part.

At least, I don't have malevolent intentions, anyways.

I see no more reason for a civilian to own a rifle than to own a rocket propelled grenade launcher, poison gas weapons, or cluster bombs.

The ideals of America does not include owning guns. Guns were simply a means for independence against foreign rulers. A means that has long since become obsolete.

Yes, you are comparing apples to oranges

Nope two people went crazy at a elementary school. One had 0 deaths. the other did not. The comparison is extremely valid.

[Maizer]

See the above. You know full well that guns won't disappear banned or not so why not take precautionary measures where these things happen to kids the most?

Oh you mean armed guards with vests and machine guns at every pre school, kindergarten, middle and high school? What about work? What about a movie theater? How about machine gun nests at every 7/11. What a great way to spend taxes.

[Sakari]

Nope two people went crazy at a elementary school. One had 0 deaths. the other did not. The comparison is extremely valid.

Oh, how we leave out the other details don't we.........

NO GUNS AND ......................

The attack marks the latest in a series of violent assaults at elementary schools in China. In 2010, a total of 18 children were killed in four separate attacks. On March 23 of that year, Zheng Minsheng attacked children at an elementary school in Fujian Province, killing eight.

One month later, just a few hours after Zheng Minsheng was executed for his crime, another man, Chen Kanbing wounded 16 students and a teacher in a knife attack at another primary school in Fujian. The following month, on May 12, a man named Wu Huangming killed seven children and two adults with a meat cleaver at a kindergarten in Shaanxi Province. That attack was followed by an August 4 assault by Fang Jiantang, who killed three children and one teacher with a knife at a kindergarten in Shandong Province.

In 2011, a young girl and three adults were killed with an axe at an elementary school in Henan Province by a 30-year-old man named Wang Hongbin, and eight children were hurt in Shanghai after an employee at a child care center attacked them with a box cutter.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Sakari

[Maizer]

Oh, how we leave out the other details don't we.........

NO GUNS AND MORE SCHOOL KILLINGS!!!!!!!!!!......

The attack marks the latest in a series of violent assaults at elementary schools in China. In 2010, a total of 18 children were killed in four separate attacks. On March 23 of that year, Zheng Minsheng attacked children at an elementary school in Fujian Province, killing eight.

One month later, just a few hours after Zheng Minsheng was executed for his crime, another man, Chen Kanbing wounded 16 students and a teacher in a knife attack at another primary school in Fujian. The following month, on May 12, a man named Wu Huangming killed seven children and two adults with a meat cleaver at a kindergarten in Shaanxi Province. That attack was followed by an August 4 assault by Fang Jiantang, who killed three children and one teacher with a knife at a kindergarten in Shandong Province.

In 2011, a young girl and three adults were killed with an axe at an elementary school in Henan Province by a 30-year-old man named Wang Hongbin, and eight children were hurt in Shanghai after an employee at a child care center attacked them with a box cutter.

Oh hey thanks for proving my point!

7 attacks and 22 people murdered.

If you haven't noticed, more ppl were killed this weekend by a single U.S. male with guns.

I love it when people provide my own arguments.

[Drayno]

I see no more reason for a civilian to own a rifle than to own a rocket propelled grenade launcher, poison gas weapons, or cluster bombs.

The ideals of America does not include owning guns. Guns were simply a means for independence against foreign rulers. A means that has long since become obsolete.

Nope two people went crazy at a elementary school. One had 0 deaths. the other did not. The comparison is extremely valid.

Most citizens don't own RPGs, cluster bombs, gas weapons, or grenades...

So I don't really know what your point is.

Guns are a means for independence against foreign and domestic rulers. Or people who threaten another person's livelihood.

Guns provide freedom to individuals in the way water nourishes a person who is dehydrated.

If you broke into my house you'd either get a gulf club to the head, or find me with my rifle raised to your face.

Would I shoot you? Hell no.

But I would give you enough incentive to get the hell off of my property to the count of ten? You bet.

And that's not too much to ask.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Drayno

[Sakari]

Oh hey thanks for proving my point!

7 attacks and 22 people murdered.

If you haven't noticed, more ppl were killed this weekend by a single U.S. male with guns.

I love it when people provide my own arguments.

Wow, you amaze me.....

The attack marks the latest in a series of violent assaults at elementary schools in China. In 2010, a total of 18 children were killed in four separate attacks. On March 23 of that year, Zheng Minsheng attacked children at an elementary school in Fujian Province, killing eight.

One month later, just a few hours after Zheng Minsheng was executed for his crime, another man, Chen Kanbing wounded 16 students and a teacher in a knife attack at another primary school in Fujian. The following month, on May 12, a man named Wu Huangming killed seven children and two adults with a meat cleaver at a kindergarten in Shaanxi Province. That attack was followed by an August 4 assault by Fang Jiantang, who killed three children and one teacher with a knife at a kindergarten in Shandong Province.

In 2011, a young girl and three adults were killed with an axe at an elementary school in Henan Province by a 30-year-old man named Wang Hongbin, and eight children were hurt in Shanghai after an employee at a child care center attacked them with a box cutter.

That is 35 killed......

And a hell of a lot of screwed up kids that witnessed all of these attacks.

This shows, take guns away, use another weapon.

Thanks for replying to this the way you did, to show how bad you really are with facts.....

Edited December 18, 2012 by Sakari

[Maizer]

Wow, you amaze me.....

The attack marks the latest in a series of violent assaults at elementary schools in China. In 2010, a total of 18 children were killed in four separate attacks. On March 23 of that year, Zheng Minsheng attacked children at an elementary school in Fujian Province, killing eight.

One month later, just a few hours after Zheng Minsheng was executed for his crime, another man, Chen Kanbing wounded 16 students and a teacher in a knife attack at another primary school in Fujian. The following month, on May 12, a man named Wu Huangming killed seven children and two adults with a meat cleaver at a kindergarten in Shaanxi Province. That attack was followed by an August 4 assault by Fang Jiantang, who killed three children and one teacher with a knife at a kindergarten in Shandong Province.

In 2011, a young girl and three adults were killed with an axe at an elementary school in Henan Province by a 30-year-old man named Wang Hongbin, and eight children were hurt in Shanghai after an employee at a child care center attacked them with a box cutter.

That is 35 killed......

And a hell of a lot of screwed up kids that witnessed all of these attacks.

This shows, take guns away, use another weapon.

Thanks for replying to this the way you did, to show how bad you really are with facts.....

Dude, read your own article and count the numbers again. I recommend doing it twice.

[Michelle]

I also like the suggestion of teachers having guns in schools. Not mandatory though. They aren't police and shouldn't be expected to be heroes.

Unbeknownst to many, some private schools in my area have certain administrators, military veterans, who are allowed to keep guns in fingerprint safes in their offices after Columbine.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Michelle

[F3SS]

Oh you mean armed guards with vests and machine guns at every pre school, kindergarten, middle and high school? What about work? What about a movie theater? How about machine gun nests at every 7/11. What a great way to spend taxes.

No. That isn't remotely close to anything I said. Not even close. It's more along the lines of the mystery US Marshall on airplanes. No hijackings have taken place since mystery gunmen were put on board. Any other attempts have failed. Seriously reread what I posted. It was very logical and sensible. And protecting kids and people in general wouldn't be a waste of money and really wouldn't cost much more. Remember in America there is soo much waste on useless things but we are all about defense. Now the schools, public ones, are a tax payer concern.

Movie theaters, gas stations... Those are private concerns and I fully support any rights available to store owners to allow armed security guards which many businesses do have or the right to keep a shotgun under the register but not for every employee. Unless the owner is there most times I'd much rather they hired security guards or off duty cops which is something businesses like 7/11's in bad neighborhoods and bars everywhere do all the time.

[F3SS]

Unbeknownst to many, some private schools in my area have certain administrators, military veterans, who are allowed to keep guns in fingerprint safes in their offices after Columbine.

I was wondering about that. Sounds good to me. I figured private schools should be able to do that but I wasn't sure if there were rules against that because of kids. Glad they are though. Does that get disclosed to parents who pay to send kids there. I would think so.

[MissMelsWell]

I see no more reason for a civilian to own a rifle than to own a rocket propelled grenade launcher, poison gas weapons, or cluster bombs.

Tell that to my friend who lives in Alaska where grizzly bears think her front porch is a nice lounging place. Of course she needs rifle.

Tell that to my friends who live in a rural area not more than 15 miles from my suburban house where they have coyotes that stalk their livestock.

Tell that to my boss who likes to hike in the Cascade mountains and has been stalked by cougar on more than one occasion.

Guns are necessary in some situations.

I live in the Burbs of a very large city. I will never own a gun I don't need one. I've always been VERY clear that I don't own guns, and visitors to my home aren't allowed to being their weapons into my house. However, if I lived in Alaska like my friend does. You bet your ass I'd have a shotgun. I'd be stupid and irresponsible if I didn't!!

Edited December 18, 2012 by MissMelsWell

[Maizer]

Tell that to my friend who lives in Alaska where grizzly bears think her front porch is a nice lounging place. Of course she needs rifle.

Tell that to my friends who live in a rural area not more than 15 from my suburban house where they have coyotes that stalk their livestock.

Tell that to my boss who likes to hike in the Cascade mountains and has been stalked by cougar on more than one occasion.

Guns are necessary in some situations.

I live in the Burbs of a very large city. I will never own a gun I don't need one. I've always been VERY clear that I don't own guns, and visitors to my home aren't allowed to being their weapons into my house. However, if I lived in Alaska like my friend does. You bet your ass I'd have a shotgun.

I usually add 'except in extreme circumstances' but looks like I missed this one

[F3SS]

I usually add 'except in extreme circumstances' but looks like I missed this one

I define an extreme circumstance where a gun was needed as when kids are being shot. If only another good adult was armed.

[Michelle]

I was wondering about that. Sounds good to me. I figured private schools should be able to do that but I wasn't sure if there were rules against that because of kids. Glad they are though. Does that get disclosed to parents who pay to send kids there. I would think so.

You didn't hear it from me.