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Should Hunger Strikers be Force Fed?


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#31    and then

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostAlmagest, on 13 July 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Prisons have to attempt to feed them. It shouldn't even be a question. We don't have prisons just because we can't kill all of our undesirables. Prison is meant for punishment and rehabilitation. They can hunger strike all they want, the prison has a duty to attempt to feed them, and if they still manage to die, at least the prison tried to save them.

I don't find the responses in this thread that surprising. The Jews and the Muslims get to partake in violent and idiotic conflict, so naturally the Christians feel left out. Lets not forget that Christianity began as a Doomsday Cult which believed the end was nigh back in the first century AD. Why are you necessarily right this time, and then?
The fact that I believe in the scripture doesn't require you or anyone else to do so.  I fully accept the reality that I may be wrong on timing or for that matter I may be wrong altogether.  But as a human being I have the right to believe.  The thing I find curious - and this is aimed at no one in particular - is how agitated many people get just being around a person who has a strong belief system.  It's as though they feel the need to discredit it in self defense or something.  I've met many Atheists in my time here at UM.  They seem rational and in their behaviors they seem moral and mostly non aggressive in their beliefs.  It never occurs to me to shout them down or tell them how destructive I might think their lack of faith is.... they have every right to believe what they will.  But when I make statements about what I - just a single member here expressing an opinion - think is coming in the world soon, there always seems to be a couple who jump in to call me a religious psychopath or some such.   They express emotion verging on hatred - from their words- against me just for an opinion.  It's as though I am harming them personally.  I really, truly don't understand that pov.

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#32    and then

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 13 July 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

The difference here is one view claims that all the rest of us will die or suffer horribly because we disagree.

No one else is claiming those who disagree with them will suffer. The fundamentalist view is sick.
You seem to have a great need to be all inclusive in your philosophy.  For you, to not accept everything from the views of every one (except religious conservatives of course) means a person is being divisive, hateful.  I think your world view is self destructive and frankly kind of childish.  It's like it was written by little girls brainstorming for a Disney rocom.  Human nature has always been to kill first the "other" and to join in packs for physical safety.  Christ's message was meant to create a world where people could live together based on love - similar to what you say you want.  But He also knew that the evolution of human nature meant that we would nearly have to destroy ourselves before it could happen (my beliefs, not spelled out in scripture)  He knew and told us to prepare for a time when all humanity would be erased from the planet unless He stepped in to stop it.  When those words were written that was a literal impossibility.  Do you question the accuracy of such a prediction for today?  Can you honestly say it is impossible in today's climate and level of technological advancement that we could not easily stumble into a war that annihilates all life?  Yet those words were attributed to Christ nearly 2 millennia ago.  In a book of fairy stories.  
Britney you are a case of arrested development I think ( your life outlook anyway) you seem sincere and want the best for mankind but you want it on terms acceptable to YOU.  Surprise man..... it's called human nature and your's is no different from mine at it's root.  No different from anyone's.  We ALL want to be the director in this drama.

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#33    Zaphod222

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:12 PM

View PostOdd Requiem, on 11 July 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

But if the food is provided for them, and they refuse to eat it, can anybody really be held responsible, besides the starving protester?

I know this goes a lot deeper than being stubborn because prison food sucks...but srsly?

No reasonable person can, but the you can be sure that both the radical islamists and the Israel-hating left in the West will manage to do just that.
They will turn the fanatics who starve themselves into martyrs, and lambast Israel for killing them.

The Israeli government is in a real bind here. They can not act as inhumanely as their adversaries do, and they will suffer either way. If they cave to the demand, the jihadis will have found a perfect way. If they don´t cave, they will get their martyrs.

It is the same conflict that the whole modern world is facing in battling the medieval religionists.

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#34    Zaphod222

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:41 PM

View Postacidhead, on 12 July 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

Another psychotic statement from our self-proclaimed christian-zionist member.  You call yourself a christian yet constantly call for death of individuals..... hardly the christian way of practicing what christians preach....  in fact its sounds very extreme.  

Its a slippery slope my friend.  Once a prisoner is allowed to starve them self to death it opens the door to a greater atrocity to occur within the prison system.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself for substituting arguments with name-calling.
In general, this forum is better than that.

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#35    coolguy

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:15 AM

If somebody is stupid enough to go on a hunger strike let them die.


#36    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

View Postacidhead, on 12 July 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

Its a slippery slope my friend.  Once a prisoner is allowed to starve them self to death it opens the door to a greater atrocity to occur within the prison system.


The above needs to have the emphasis laid on it,  because every word of that sentence above........is 100% right..  You cannot let a prisoner dictate their own length of sentence by starving themselves to death... As you say, it's a slippery slope, because it would open the door for others to do exactly what they want, and when they want it...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 15 July 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#37    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:24 PM

View Postand then, on 11 July 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

http://www.timesofis...81ec81-54430521

Interesting quandary.  The strikers are in prison and are protesting that it is unjust.  Israel (or the US) will be called barbaric if they allow them to die.  Israel will be called barbaric if they force feed them.  If Israel releases them it is proven they will take up arms again.  In fact the ONLY solution is for Israel to admit defeat, pack up and de-camp Palestine.  Since that is NEVER going to happen, a reasonable human being would ask that the bloodshed be stopped and an agreement be finished.  Apparently THAT is never going to happen either.  These guys in Israeli prison or at Gitmo who want to end their lives through protest should be allowed to imo.  But when the day comes that a prisoner can dictate their sentence by refusing food... well there's an idea that should catch on quite lively  :)

I think you are looking more at what people will say and do, if these prisoners are allowed to go ahead and starve themselves OR if they are force fed...We know force feeding itself can be a bit too evasive, and the fact that it was being done would strike an outrage by others calling it barbaric, some most likely screaming - Let them have their rights, it's their lives, their bodies blah blah..   What you are pointing out here is - They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't...right?  

Thing is, if they allow these prisoners to have their way, it would open the door to  what acidhead called - A slippery slope...It would most likely create more chaos... More and more prisoners will be looking their own way and go nuts to get it....  It's like - If you let him do it, why can't I do it?    They'd most likely start dictating to the law what they wish...

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#38    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:51 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 12 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Truly disgusting the way some Christians want to use their faith as justification to harm others.

View PostThe world needs you, on 12 July 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

This contribution is not welcomed.

This type of fundamentalist religiosity is the problem.


View PostThe world needs you, on 13 July 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

No one else is claiming those who disagree with them will suffer. The fundamentalist view is sick.

All of the above has a certain ring of irony, - Truly disgusting Christians that say blah blah...." This is not welcomed" ....."Fundamentalist view is sick"...."Truly disgusting they way some Christians want to use their faith as justification to harm others"...and so forth....All coming from one guy that calls himself - The world needs you ...Irony at it's very best. I shouldn't laugh, but blimey it just stands out  I wouldn't go and slam people and tell them their views are not welcomed  IF I called myself - The world needs you.. .Because from your views to this Christian, the world doesn't need his fundamentalist  views.. :D

From reading his OP, the same OP acidhead and others speak of... Question - What, within the same content of his OP clearly shows his Christian faith as an excuse to harm others?

I couldn't see a single word he said in his OP that pointed out -" Look at me I am a raving fundie, and by Christ let them do it.".
All I read from his OP was - They'd be damned if they do and damned if they dont  ( which is true )  So he plumps for - Let them do it..!!

Tell me something, the thread has a good few others all saying the same as - and then... Does this make them all fundies ?   Are they all struck by some sort of fundie spell that made them all agree?  Or is it because you have no idea what their faith is personally, so its easier to jump on the - Lets shone the christian parade for his views.bandwagon.....And you had to skip over a few agreeing posts to do it...If you are going to shone someone for coming out with a view you clearly disapprove,  ( and I do too )  then,  there is a multiquote button, don't just pick one person with the view, pick them all..But unless of course you like to cherry pick, then that's fine  lol

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 15 July 2013 - 07:04 PM.

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#39    Ashotep

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:41 PM

I really don't know what the right answer is here.  If we let them starve themselves that will be wrong but if we force feed them that is also wrong.

I wish they would just close that place and if they have proof these men did something put them on trial, don't just hold them.  Being held with no charges or trial and no hope for it to end would make you want to starve yourself to death.


#40    Wickian

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:14 PM

If someone doesn't want to eat, don't make them.  If they feel so strongly about it they're prepared to die then let them.


#41    acidhead

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:21 AM

Im a Libertarian and I believe in the right to life in all individuals... gov protected...  I believe in the morning after pill and special circumstances BUT I DO NOT believe in the right to gov assisted death as a norm in society. ... ESPECIALLY within the prison system.

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#42    pallidin

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:19 AM

A "hunger-strike", for political or any other reason is potential suicide for no medical reason(such as terminal cancer)
No question about that.

Modern medical professionals are devoted to save lives.

I have nothing more to say... my dinner's ready.


#43    and then

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:31 AM

View Postacidhead, on 16 July 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Im a Libertarian and I believe in the right to life in all individuals... gov protected...  I believe in the morning after pill and special circumstances BUT I DO NOT believe in the right to gov assisted death as a norm in society. ... ESPECIALLY within the prison system.
So I can put you down as "force feeding acceptable" IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE?

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#44    lightly

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:57 AM

I think they should not be force fed.    I can see why a captive might be force fed to keep them alive for information they may be believed to posses.   But otherwise..  what is to be gained or lost from letting them starve themselves?    I don't see why it would cause a "slippery slope'"   ...    what's going to happen?     ''' You let him starve himself to death.. so... We want a 56"  TV ..  or else !      We're tired of the starvees getting special privileges!! :angry:

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#45    Yamato

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:04 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 15 July 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

The above needs to have the emphasis laid on it,  because every word of that sentence above........is 100% right..  You cannot let a prisoner dictate their own length of sentence by starving themselves to death... As you say, it's a slippery slope, because it would open the door for others to do exactly what they want, and when they want it...
If slicing their wrists on the razor wire was exactly what they wanted to do, must we take the razor wire down or put pillows over it now too?  

I'll let Bon Scott take it from here...


"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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