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Religion- Nonbelievers and Believers


Just_Seeking

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Questions for believers.What gives you the faith to believe? Why do you spread the word? Where does the passion to defend your beliefs come from? And why do you defend it? What events if any have turned you to religion? Why believe in the impossible?

Questions for Nonbelievers. Why not believe? Why do you find mostly flaws in religious texts? Where does the passion come from to go against religious belief? Why is your way the way? What events if any turned you away? Why believe only in the possible?

Just trying to dig into the reasoning for both.

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Watch this and then the lectures in my signature.

Monkeys and Banannas

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Questions for believers.What gives you the faith to believe? Why do you spread the word? Where does the passion to defend your beliefs come from? And why do you defend it? What events if any have turned you to religion? Why believe in the impossible?

Well, first, I wonder, (innocently), what is your reason for asking these questions. Now, I am a believer, but considering the general like ness of the word believer, a believer is a believer is anything in any belief, right? For me, I'm not orthodox, but I believe. I believe in a more Bohemian nature of New Age. I believe, because I have had the personal experiences, resulted from a need coincidentally occurring during various personally paranormal events in my life. Considering, I'm not orthodox, part of a congregation or such, I'm pretty much alone, but I do not, strongly do not have the urge to spread the word. Frankly, in my belief, I feel that is wrong. I feel everyone has the right to what they believe or not believe in. I rejoice in that. I don't know how this can be conveyed, but I really strong in belief to feel happy at myself and others in our different belief systems. I don't wont to behave in a manner that is offending to others.
Questions for Nonbelievers. Why not believe? Why do you find mostly flaws in religious texts? Where does the passion come from to go against religious belief? Why is your way the way? What events if any turned you away? Why believe only in the possible?

Just trying to dig into the reasoning for both.

Ok, I am not a believer, but I don't think this applies to all non-believers. I could be wrong. Why do religious texts have to play into this with all of them? I do not grow up reading the bible or going to church, and there was a time in my life that I wasn't a believer. So, it wouldn't be what I found wrong in writing. I would think it would be the case, that personal and general experiences back up the reasoning why not to believe. But of course, non-believers would have personal reasons as to why. Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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Questions for Nonbelievers. Why not believe? Why do you find mostly flaws in religious texts? Where does the passion come from to go against religious belief? Why is your way the way? What events if any turned you away? Why believe only in the possible?

Because religion is not a nature thing, it's man-made. Religious text were written by people. The sheer idiocy of some religions and religious groups. My way isn't the way and no way is the way, because we Do Not Know The Truth. I was a Christian for 3 years and learn fast of the elitist attitude that can develop. Possibility of what exactly?

Questions for believers.What gives you the faith to believe? Why do you spread the word? Where does the passion to defend your beliefs come from? And why do you defend it? What events if any have turned you to religion? Why believe in the impossible?

I believe in the possibility of something beyond our understanding. I don't spread my beliefs. I don't defend my beliefs. I have no need to defend it either. I'm agnostic because I do not know 100% if there is or isn't something that we address as "God". I believe in the possibility of the impossible, because at some point everything we now know was considered impossible by someone.

I am neither for nor against faith, I just have a problem with religion. Because faith is personal and shouldn't harm others. Religion is a tool of mass deception, cultivation of Pavlov's Dogs who bow their knee to the words of their religious leaders. In short, mind-slaves.

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Questions for believers.What gives you the faith to believe? Why do you spread the word? Where does the passion to defend your beliefs come from? And why do you defend it? What events if any have turned you to religion? Why believe in the impossible?

Questions for Nonbelievers. Why not believe? Why do you find mostly flaws in religious texts? Where does the passion come from to go against religious belief? Why is your way the way? What events if any turned you away? Why believe only in the possible?

Just trying to dig into the reasoning for both.

I do not have faith I have knowledge and a personal relationship with "god".

I don't "spread the word" except to make people aware that anyone an have a personal relationship with a real and powerful god. Preaching is pointless The issue is an individuals own personal relationship with god ,and I am only an expert on .my own Everyone else must develop their own individual connection, creating a unique relationship, sometimes with a very different form of god from the one I connect with.. SO if I preach my own findings, I could well mislead another.

I speak only truth as I know/understand it, and my connection to god gives me great power and strength which I would like others to have, so that humanity and societies could be much improved. Why assume anything is impossible.? IN a symbiotic relationship with a god, (Or an advanced enough alien entity if you prefer,) a human is capable of anything..

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IMO random chance can only account for so much. The fact that we are here (having evolved from base matter), that we can reason, that we are sentient, that we can comprehend our own existence....I have to conclude that it's more likely God does exist than not. Mind you, not saying I have any proof of this, just that this is my personal feeling on the question.

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My way is the way? Are you sure that question isn't meant to be for the believers?

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Questions for Nonbelievers. Why not believe? Why do you find mostly flaws in religious texts?

I'll answer these two together. I find it impossible to reconcile the Universe with the tales that we are told by scripture. They were written by people who did not know that the Earth revolved around the Sun and it tells. Aesop's Fables contain better morals, in addition to being accepted for what they are - fables.

Where does the passion come from to go against religious belief? Why is your way the way? What events if any turned you away?

The passion grows every time I see the religious commit a violation of human dignity. I know for a fact that my way isn't the way, and I am very skeptical that there is such a way for people to live that could be justly applied to all people. Religion seeks to offer that. No particular event turned me away, but recent events such as the Sydney Siege, the massacre of 2,000 Nigerians by Boko Haram and the Charlie Hebdo shootings have hardened my heart.

Why believe only in the possible

Voltaire said "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." I try not to believe anything that is not backed by evidence. That isn't to say that I'm perfect and have no baseless beliefs, I just try to interrogate my own beliefs, particularly if they have an impact on my life.

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Questions for believers.What gives you the faith to believe? Why do you spread the word? Where does the passion to defend your beliefs come from? And why do you defend it? What events if any have turned you to religion? Why believe in the impossible?

Questions for Nonbelievers. Why not believe? Why do you find mostly flaws in religious texts? Where does the passion come from to go against religious belief? Why is your way the way? What events if any turned you away? Why believe only in the possible?

Just trying to dig into the reasoning for both.

I'm about 50/50 here... I have beliefs, they tend not to be religious though. So...

Why I believe in karma, collective unconscious, and that the universe itself is a sort of unconscious energy organism? Honestly, it's just my gut feeling. I have no real reasoning for it, and maybe it is just something I need to believe in somewhere deep in my subconscious... but it feels real to me, so that's that.

Why I don't believe...religiously - I don't necessarily find flaws in the texts, but I view them as a mixture of history and fiction and I maintain that as most of these stories were written anywhere from a thousand to many thousands of years ago, it is only faith that could allow someone to hold their validity in spite of modern science and discovery. I definitely find value in these works, even if only in a literary sense or a way to understand the people of the time. There are definite moral ideas in the books but for the most part they seem to follow the general concept of "I don't like being harmed, so I probably shouldn't harm someone else".

As for the question "why believe only in the possible", it kind of answers itself and contradicts itself. Belief implies that one upholds an unproven concept, possible implies a proven concept. But, We are all human and we have limited senses and resources to understand this existence, and the important thing about objective "possible" concepts, is that multiple people can share the same exact experience. It doesn't matter who you are or what you believe, if you're holding a rock and let go of it, it falls to the ground. As beings who each have our own opinions and ideas and views of the world, the best starting place for us to understand each other is in the objective. It's like in the Miracle Worker - Helen was blind and deaf, and couldn't communicate, but she understood water.

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Questions for Nonbelievers. Why not believe? Why do you find mostly flaws in religious texts? Where does the passion come from to go against religious belief? Why is your way the way? What events if any turned you away? Why believe only in the possible?

Just trying to dig into the reasoning for both.

I haven't encountered any convincing evidence that would cause me to believe in ANYTHING supernatural.

I don't really understand the "flaws in religious texts" question but I will do my best. I don't only find flaws in religious texts. I point out things I find inconsistent or just crazy when these texts are held up as evidence that I should believe. I would find the same type of "flaws" if some one used THE GOBLET OF FIRE as evidence of the existence of Harry Potter.

Passion to go against religious belief? I am passionate against anyone using a religious text (and their interpretation of it) to govern my life. Otherwise, don't care what you believe as long as you don't hurt anyone.

Hurting anyone else and using a religious text to support this action should bring out serious passion from EVERYONE to stop such an action.

I don't really have a "way". Just keep your (general) way out of my way.

Events? ANY TIME through out history where a text was used to support harm to another.

Why only believe in the possible? I don't believe in the possible. It's either possible or not. Doesn't matter about belief.

Nibs

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Watch this and then the lectures in my signature.

Monkeys and Banannas

You do realise that no such scientific experiment has ever taken place, right? Thus your comment may be worth an allegorical nod but does not hold any scientific value of any kind.
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Religion simply bores me. A lot of religious beliefs are demonstratably false, plus the entire concept is childish.

I don't go out of my way to hate on religion as much as I used to, through. Mainly because there's no point. I have religious friends, I have non regions friends. It doesn't matter. If someone asks me I will talk about it, but religion in one for or another always has and most likely always will be around.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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Questions for Nonbelievers. Why not believe? Why do you find mostly flaws in religious texts? Where does the passion come from to go against religious belief? Why is your way the way? What events if any turned you away? Why believe only in the possible?

The same sort of reason why I do not believe in alien abductions and probings.

Why do I find mostly flaws in the texts? mainly because they are there...written in a book.

I have no passion to go against any religion, I think you will find over the years, it is the religious going against the religious.

Not believing should not be confused with going against. i have absolutely no problem with people wanting to follow a peaceful religion, but because I choose not to follow them, is not me going against them. I am happy to stand back and wave them on, its only when they turn round and insist they are right and I must follow, thats when it can get tricky.

I do not see it my way, i am just a mere human living within a short time on Earth, and while i am here, i`ll do the best I can. Nature calls the shots on this planet.

Events? jeeze..which war do you want me to start with?

Why believe only in the possible????? as opposed to believing the impossible? I think the answer is there.

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IMO random chance can only account for so much. The fact that we are here (having evolved from base matter), that we can reason, that we are sentient, that we can comprehend our own existence....I have to conclude that it's more likely God does exist than not. Mind you, not saying I have any proof of this, just that this is my personal feeling on the question.

Well said. I was a Christian for many years and believed it with all my heart. Ironically, it was Science that caused me to leave the church but it was also Science that helped me to find God. The Church asked me to believe in something unseen with no supporting evidence - Science provided all of the evidence but never told me what to make of it.

I used to look at the world around me in amazement and think "this is all the work of God. Just as the Bible told us." but I remember never really investigating the counter-evidence because I felt as though I didn't need to. In hindsight, it's actually impressive how religious dogma can "rewire your brain" to follow a very rigid and closed pattern of thought...it is not conducive to free thinking.

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Because religion is not a nature thing, it's man-made. Religious text were written by people. The sheer idiocy of some religions and religious groups. My way isn't the way and no way is the way, because we Do Not Know The Truth. I was a Christian for 3 years and learn fast of the elitist attitude that can develop. Possibility of what exactly?

I believe in the possibility of something beyond our understanding. I don't spread my beliefs. I don't defend my beliefs. I have no need to defend it either. I'm agnostic because I do not know 100% if there is or isn't something that we address as "God". I believe in the possibility of the impossible, because at some point everything we now know was considered impossible by someone.

I am neither for nor against faith, I just have a problem with religion. Because faith is personal and shouldn't harm others. Religion is a tool of mass deception, cultivation of Pavlov's Dogs who bow their knee to the words of their religious leaders. In short, mind-slaves.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1164

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Logic, personal exsperience, personal honesty, education, attention to detail

All these things give me my spiritual beleifs, I'd bet there are some honest atheists here that might say the same thing. I don't really have faith in anything other than myself. Why shouldn't I? It hasn't failed me yet.

My faith in the great spirit is a secondary thing based on the faculties I was blessed with. I can't see any better way to come to God .

Edited by White Crane Feather
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You do realise that no such scientific experiment has ever taken place, right? Thus your comment may be worth an allegorical nod but does not hold any scientific value of any kind.

It's called Religion and was for mind enslavement but not for scientific purposes.

Just denounce Jesus...See the principal works.

Is William Lane Craig a Psychopath?

The Truthiness of the Holy Spirit

Edited by davros of skaro
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It's called Religion and was for mind enslavement but not for scientific purposes.

Not the point, the study never took place, who knows what would happen if it ever did?
Just denounce Jesus...

Ummmm, no. Accept jesus and I'll consider it :)
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I am Christian, more specifically roman Catholic. I wasn't always serious about my faith but then I read a book which really affected my beliefs. I just decided to commit without knowing if I was right or not. This belief has lead me to want to live a life of compassion and grace. Above everything else I believe in being positive and spreading that energy out there. And ever since I found religion, I have become more positive, less judgmental, more loving.

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Not the point, the study never took place, who knows what would happen if it ever did?

I nor the video promoted as such because it's clearly a trainning aid for a work enviroment.

The principal in relation to Religion on the other hand is very evident and it works on Humans.

Quran 2:6

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=6

Sahih International: Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

Pickthall: As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.

Yusuf Ali: As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

Shakir: Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.

Muhammad Sarwar: Those who deny your message will not believe whether you warn them or not

Mohsin Khan: Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

Arberry: As for the unbelievers, alike it is to them whether thou hast warned them or hast not warned them, they do not believe.

Quran 2:7

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=7

Sahih International: Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

Pickthall: Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.

Yusuf Ali: Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

Shakir: Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.

Muhammad Sarwar: God has sealed their hearts and hearing and their vision is veiled; a great punishment awaits them.

Mohsin Khan: Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allah's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.

Arberry: God has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a covering, and there awaits them a mighty chastisement.

Ummmm, no. Accept jesus and I'll consider it :)

Why don't you be honest with this question (I know you will not be):

Why do the stories in Genesis, Jesus die/rise 3 days, and even the Biblical patriarchs unnatural longevity all have much older ancient Sumerian counterparts.

I know you will not say what you believe about this on the forums.

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I nor the video promoted as such because it's clearly a trainning aid for a work enviroment.

The very first words spoken in the video are "a group of scientists place....". The opening words referring to metaphor is not about the alleged scientific study but about the relationship such a study would have towards enacting change in a work environment. The video is portraying this as a scientific study.

Why don't you be honest with this question (I know you will not be):

I'm honest in everything I say. I may not be "right" all the time (many times I make mistakes), but I am always honest.
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I don't accept the premise; people aren't monkeys. Sounds like a sure fire way of training obedient little atheist monkeys, 'though. Wouldn't work with people. Someone would just turn over the ladder to get the banana. Who dreams up this silly crap, anyway?

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I became a Christian when I was about 30. Before that I was non-religious. I simply didn't care. I didn't care about other people, or the world, or anything much that didn't affect my immediate world view. In short I lived a very selfish life. I had friends, but they were come and go, and I didn't love them. I really didn't even love my immediate family... mom, dad, brothers. I just was going from one work/entertainment/food moment to the next. I had a dead end job, horrible credit, and worsening health.

Once I converted to Christianity, due to some good friends I knew from college almost 10 years before, I found that people did care for each other, and I fell in love, and loved others. I started caring about myself and others. I prayed about a better job, a wife and kids, better health, better finances. I found that almost magically my finances improved, depression lifted that I hadn't even known was there. I got a better job. Got married. Bought a house. Joined a couple churches and now have hundreds of loving good friends who would loan me money, or their car, or who would watch my kids in an emergency. And seemingly those emergencies, fights, drunken nights, negative hundreds of dollars in the checking account... moments diminished and practically disappeared. It was like being blessed.

Oh, you might say, "Well you just grew up or got lucky, or got inspired." Well, maybe, but several other of my buddies, who also I went to college with did NOT become Christians, and for some reason their lives continued to be struggles constantly. Lost jobs, unfaithful girlfriends, fires... Seemingly the evidence seemed to support the supposition that those who were Christian somehow lived more charmed lives. Though it could have been just luck, I doubt that because of the statistically improbability of some many Christians that I knew being charmed, and so many non-Christians living hard lives.

Perhaps religion is mental illness. But, if it is, then sign me up, as I have less worries, more freedom and a lot more love in my life then if I did not have it in my life. There are highs and lows, but the highs seem higher, and the lows, not so low. What I had before... worries, stress, bad health, lonesomeness, depression... These are what atheists would call freedom.

I highly recommend joining a Christian church. There are so many different denominations that there is something for everyone. All that is required is to try love first, to try to live like Jesus, and to try to have a relationship with Jesus. Even praying, singing, and giving money is entirely optional almost everywhere.

It often seems to me that Atheists often feel that they have to comment on Christianity, by pointing out discrepancies, and how history does not support the Bible, and how various individuals fought in various wars, or tortured so and so. Yet, those Christians measure in the thousands, or hundreds of thousands, and the number of loving Christians numbers (from the first century) close to ten BILLION. Those who are brought up time and time again are the 1/10th of one percent of Christians. It is like saying all Muslims are equal to the 9/11 plane hijackers. It just isn't true. Pointing out various issues, or purposefully misusing Biblical quotes is just desperation, and I am not sure who militant Atheists think they are trying to convince? In my thinking, it is THEMSELVES that they are trying to convince. Because they keep reading about these seemingly good, normal, intellegent people, who are doing great, have great friendships, and have really meaningful lives... whom the militant atheists have convinced themselves have to be Horrible People. And the juxtaposition must trouble them greatly. They have to constantly try to convince themselves that they are not wrong, and what better way then to confront the Christians and expose them for what they really are. But, so very often the exposing fails, and only good people are revealed.

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The only reason why the five monkeys story would be viewed as an example of irrational behavior is the dominance of Abrahamic crown-of-creation fantasies.

There is no natural reason to suppose that monkeys in the hypothetical could not transmit the facts of their situation: they are captives (do you seriously imagine that laboratory monkeys do not know they are captives? That they do not realize who their captors are?), and the observation that their captors punish those who climb for the bananas, and all around them, too.

What on earth is "irrational" about that? The monkey's behavior, that is. The behavior of the other apes in the story, the ones who spray the water on the monkeys, is more problematic.

My best guess, however, is that IRL the monkeys would simply storm the ladder en masse. The bananas are then gone. This both solves the problem of the cold spray (yup, one cold shower, but no more than that), and also provides a nice gnosh all around.

Compare this rational, intelligent team-orineted behavior with Adam throwing his only friend in the world, the Woman, under the bus when confronting the bully who was punishing them for taking some fruit from the center of their cage - um, garden. Speaking of experiments that were never performed, but make for a good story.

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The very first words spoken in the video are "a group of scientists place....". The opening words referring to metaphor is not about the alleged scientific study but about the relationship such a study would have towards enacting change in a work environment. The video is portraying this as a scientific study.

The biggest obstacles to creativity is a reliance on the status quo is what the video is about.I see this all the time and myself has been affected by it.Status quo is an effective Tool for control which Religion uses.If this was a real experiment I would have used a video with original footage.

I'm honest in everything I say. I may not be "right" all the time (many times I make mistakes), but I am always honest.

Then answer the question instead of dodging it.

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