84 replies to this topic

[Bluefinger]

M0TH, on 25 September 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

the new moon sept 2012... thats all I know... It will take a while but when you google you'll eventually get the text and original format dates, converted to gregorian.

I checked on it.  The new moon happened on Sept. 15th.  I wonder how the Hews that follow the Zohar interpret it now.

[M0TH]

Bluefinger, on 25 September 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

I checked on it.  The new moon happened on Sept. 15th.  I wonder how the Hews that follow the Zohar interpret it now.

no idea... I think they believe he will come then, whether or not he will reveal himself at that time I dont know... I'm not up on Jewish prophecy... found it by accident.

[Ben Masada]

Ambush Bug, on 24 September 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

You know what I have no real clue what you are rambling on about... just know this... when the Arab Israelis gain demographic majority... Israel can not pretend they dont exist and this means major reformations to the laws of Israel.

Of course, you are not interested when the goods seem to be heavier on the side of the Jewish scale. The oil-rich Arabs caused the Palestinian condition of refugees and now you want the Jews to fix it? They should buy Barra California from Mexico and transfer the whole Palestinian population there. We are already seven million. We need more space to lodge our own people. If they wanna keep the struggle, let it be. Guess what? We are back to stay. Perhaps the Americans will fair better with them joining the "wet-backs" accross the boarders.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada, 25 September 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[B Jenkins]

Ben Masada, on 25 September 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Of course, you are not interested when the goods seem to be heavier on the side of the Jewish scale. The oil-rich Arabs caused the Palestinian condition of refugees and now you want the Jews to fix it? They should buy Barra California from Mexico and transfer the whole Palestinian population there. We are already seven million. We need more space to lodge our own people. If they wanna keep the struggle, let it be. Guess what? We are back to stay. Perhaps the Americans will fair better with them joining the "wet-backs" accross the boarders.

Ben

Israel created just as many millions of Arab Palestinian refugees by dispossessing them of land and home. The oil-rich Arabs didnt cause this, how could they have of? They desire the Arab Palestinians to be where the Arab Palestinians desire to be, in their proper homeland.

You are forgetting the Arab Palestinians never wanted to leave Palestine. The Arab Palestinians never wanted their land divided up between them and the Jews. The Arab Palestinians defied Jewish immigration thus the 1939 White Paper severely limiting Jewish immigration to a specific number was drawn up by Britain because of pressure from the Arab Palestinians and to because Britain needed Arab oil resources for the war effort.

To reinvent a popular Malcolm X quote, for the Arab Palestinians, "We didnt land on the Holocaust, the Holocaust landed on us."

[M.A.D CapeBretoner]

ya he knows his time is short

[Ben Masada]

Ambush Bug, on 25 September 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Israel created just as many millions of Arab Palestinian refugees by dispossessing them of land and home. The oil-rich Arabs didnt cause this, how could they have of? They desire the Arab Palestinians to be where the Arab Palestinians desire to be, in their proper homeland.

You are forgetting the Arab Palestinians never wanted to leave Palestine. The Arab Palestinians never wanted their land divided up between them and the Jews. The Arab Palestinians defied Jewish immigration thus the 1939 White Paper severely limiting Jewish immigration to a specific number was drawn up by Britain because of pressure from the Arab Palestinians and to because Britain needed Arab oil resources for the war effort.

To reinvent a popular Malcolm X quote, for the Arab Palestinians, "We didnt land on the Holocaust, the Holocaust landed on us."

Yeah, they didn't want to leave Israel but complied to do so as soon as the Arab countries opened up their war of agression in 1948. What a fiasco! they were crushed in return. Now, it is upon them to fix what they did to the Palestinians.

Ben

[B Jenkins]

Ben Masada, on 29 September 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Yeah, they didn't want to leave Israel but complied to do so as soon as the Arab countries opened up their war of agression in 1948. What a fiasco! they were crushed in return. Now, it is upon them to fix what they did to the Palestinians.

Ben

A civil war broke out from between December 1947 til May 15 1948, there was no international Arab armies involved at this time. The Jews were already grabbing land partitioned to the Arabs before the Arab nations attempted to intervene.

How do you explain Plan Dalet Ben? What is Plan Dalet to you or mean to you Ben?

Or Operation Balak, the illegal Czechoslovakia arms shipments to Israel between June 1947 to October 1949? Would you say that is anticipating war? Maybe anticipating an international conflict?

[Ben Masada]

Ambush Bug, on 01 October 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

A civil war broke out from between December 1947 til May 15 1948, there was no international Arab armies involved at this time. The Jews were already grabbing land partitioned to the Arabs before the Arab nations attempted to intervene.

How do you explain Plan Dalet Ben? What is Plan Dalet to you or mean to you Ben?

Or Operation Balak, the illegal Czechoslovakia arms shipments to Israel between June 1947 to October 1949? Would you say that is anticipating war? Maybe anticipating an international conflict?

The arms shipments from Czechoslovakia was not done before the threats from the Arabs to destroy the rising State of Israel. We had to get ready for all eventualities. Therefore, the anticipation of war was on the make from the Arab side. Brains don't fight without weapons. We needed them to defend ourselves. And we, efficiently, did it against all odds.

Ben

[B Jenkins]

Ben Masada, on 03 October 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

The arms shipments from Czechoslovakia was not done before the threats from the Arabs to destroy the rising State of Israel. We had to get ready for all eventualities. Therefore, the anticipation of war was on the make from the Arab side. Brains don't fight without weapons. We needed them to defend ourselves. And we, efficiently, did it against all odds.

Ben

Against all odds, but that is all the popular myths the Zionists have built around the beginnings of the State of Israel. Like most nations, Israel has a bunch of propagandist myths that do not hold up to historic scrutiny.

Of all the armies involved in the Arab-Israeli war, only Jordan fielded 4,500-5,000 British-trained soldiers. The other nations didnt have British-trained soldiers. None of the Arab armies had been battle tested, very few Arabs served in Her Majesty's armies in WWII. Whereas the Haganah had 60,000 well-organized illegal army under Mandate law, 30,000-35,000 WWII veterans before the war started including a strike force, static defense force, and reservists.

Plan Dalet razed whole Arab Palestinians villages to the ground in concerted efforts by Haganah and the terrorists groups Stern gang and Irgun. When the State of Israel was proclaimed, there were already 200,000 Arab Palestinian refugees. The Jews were invading the lands partitioned by the UN to the Arab Palestinians. The Arab armies inadequetly intervened at this point. The capture of Haifa and the attack on Jaffa created an additional 145,000 refugees fleeing for their lives. By the end of May, there were already 370,000 Arab refugees fleeing from Jewish HELD territories.

The common propagandist myst is 700,000 Jews held their own against 27 million Arabs. Very untrue, the largest estimate forces representing the Arab armies stands at 23,500 at the start of the war. Of which included 4,500-5,000 British-trained soldiers from Jordan. Jordan by the way made a secret pact of non-aggression with the new State of Israel, in order to divide Palestine between themselves. However, while Jordan upheld the pact, Israel didnt. The lowest estimate of Jewish forces at the start of the war was given by David Ben-Gurion himself at 30,574, a more realistic figure would be 60,000-70,000 not including several thousand extremist fighters representing the Stern and Irgun.

At the start of the war,

the highest estimate of the combined Arab armies committed 23,500.

the lowest estimage of Jewish forces committed 30,574* (David Ben-Gurion*, but twice that is a much more realistic estimate)


By the end of the war,

the combined Arab armies committed 45,000-55,000 fighters to the war by its end.

Israel committed between 60,000-100,000 fighters to the war by its end.

So you see there was never a David vs Goliath conflict, the Jews always held the odds in their favor, supported by massive buildup in the shipments of arms from Britain, Czechloslavakia, etc. Often illegal shipments.

After the 1948 war, 85% of the Arab population fled from the lands held by Israel at that time (726,000 out of 859,000).

Of the total population of Arabs at the end of this war, 70% were refugees.

And what do you say about this "ironic" statistic, during this war Jews lost 4,558 soldiers and 1,150 civilians, yet more Israeli soldiers were killed in attacks on Arab Palestine than in the defense of Israel??? This is factually true. Yet we are taught about this miraclous birth of Israel in a David vs Goliath confrontation and how a few Jews held off Arab hordes. History tells another story altogether though.

[MichaelW]

Ambush Bug, on 08 October 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

Against all odds, but that is all the popular myths the Zionists have built around the beginnings of the State of Israel. Like most nations, Israel has a bunch of propagandist myths that do not hold up to historic scrutiny.

Ah, stupidity reigns supreme doesn't it?

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Of all the armies involved in the Arab-Israeli war, only Jordan fielded 4,500-5,000 British-trained soldiers. The other nations didnt have British-trained soldiers.

Oh no, of course not. I mean, it wasn't like the Egyptian Army was trained by the British or served with the British in WW2 now was it?

Quote

Whereas the Haganah had 60,000 well-organized illegal army under Mandate law, 30,000-35,000 WWII veterans before the war started including a strike force, static defense force, and reservists.

Would it be that some of them (like Moshe Dayan) had served in overseas theatres and resistance groups against the Nazis?

Quote

The common propagandist myst is 700,000 Jews held their own against 27 million Arabs.

Now what foul smelling orifice did you pull this little doozy from? Because this is the first time I have, or anyone else here for that matter, has seen such a figure as this.

I'm not surprised you'd pull random figures from nowhere. After all, what use are facts when I can make **** up that suits my argument?

Quote

This is factually true.

Is it now? Just like the other "facts" you've posted in the past?

Quote

History tells another story altogether though.

Maybe in your alternate universe where the moon is made of cheese and the Jews are actually evil people, but history is written by the winners. You can b**** and moan and whine about how unfair warfare is because your pet people lost something, but war is never fair in the first place.

Something you will learn once you leave kindergarten.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

MichaelW, on 08 October 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

Oh no, of course not. I mean, it wasn't like the Egyptian Army was trained by the British or served with the British in WW2 now was it?

On this point you have inadvertantly "mis-spoken" . Egyptian troops did not fight with British Eight Army, though Jewish troops did. After Nasser came to power, Egyptian army was stripped of any "Britishness" The Egyptian army that fought in Six Day and Yom Kippur war was Soviet equiped and trained.

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 08 October 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[B Jenkins]

MichaelW, on 08 October 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

Ah, stupidity reigns supreme doesn't it?



Oh no, of course not. I mean, it wasn't like the Egyptian Army was trained by the British or served with the British in WW2 now was it?




Would it be that some of them (like Moshe Dayan) had served in overseas theatres and resistance groups against the Nazis?




Now what foul smelling orifice did you pull this little doozy from? Because this is the first time I have, or anyone else here for that matter, has seen such a figure as this.

I'm not surprised you'd pull random figures from nowhere. After all, what use are facts when I can make **** up that suits my argument?



Is it now? Just like the other "facts" you've posted in the past?



Maybe in your alternate universe where the moon is made of cheese and the Jews are actually evil people, but history is written by the winners. You can b**** and moan and whine about how unfair warfare is because your pet people lost something, but war is never fair in the first place.

Something you will learn once you leave kindergarten.

You're post reads like kindergarten history 101.

Oh and that quote came from the War Diaries of David Ben-Gurion page 524, "700,000 Jews pitted against 27 million Arabs -- one against 40." He wrote it.

Do you even know who David Ben-Gurion is, MichaelW?

[Idano]

Ben Masada, on 25 September 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Of course, you are not interested when the goods seem to be heavier on the side of the Jewish scale. The oil-rich Arabs caused the Palestinian condition of refugees and now you want the Jews to fix it? They should buy Barra California from Mexico and transfer the whole Palestinian population there. We are already seven million. We need more space to lodge our own people. If they wanna keep the struggle, let it be. Guess what? We are back to stay. Perhaps the Americans will fair better with them joining the "wet-backs" accross the boarders.

Ben

OUCH! "Wet-back"? Easy with the name calling Ben Masada.  Please just debate the issue...

[MichaelW]

Atentutankh-pasheri, on 08 October 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

On this point you have inadvertantly "mis-spoken" . Egyptian troops did not fight with British Eight Army, though Jewish troops did. After Nasser came to power, Egyptian army was stripped of any "Britishness" The Egyptian army that fought in Six Day and Yom Kippur war was Soviet equiped and trained.

If I recall correctly, Ambush wasn't talking about the Six Day War or Yom Kippur or even the Suez War.

[MichaelW]

Ambush Bug, on 08 October 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Oh and that quote came from the War Diaries of David Ben-Gurion page 524, "700,000 Jews pitted against 27 million Arabs -- one against 40." He wrote it.

And you do know what figures these represented? The total populations of the countries involved?

Quote

Do you even know who David Ben-Gurion is, MichaelW?

As I said earlier, he was the first Prime Minister of Israel.