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NASA's Secret ET Influence


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#61    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:55 AM

And of course there is plenty of evidence for NASA image tampering, also going back to the days of Apollo and Gemini.







Edited by TheMacGuffin, 29 December 2012 - 08:58 AM.


#62    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:06 AM

Here NASA used time-compressed stop-motion techniques to conceal a UFO picture.




#63    JimOberg

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

You really ought to look at the stuff I've posted at www.jamesoberg.com/ufo.html instead of pretending that if you can ignore it, it doesn't exist.


#64    JimOberg

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:27 PM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 29 December 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

   Obituary
In his 88 years, Clyde C. McClelland left Western Pennsylvania for only two extended periods, and only to serve his country..... His sons, Clark and Robert L., also worked in the space program. ....

It might be useful to try to find the brother, as well as Clark's ex-wife. They may have insights into his stories.


#65    JimOberg

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

Robert L. McClelland, 75, lives in Pittsburgh, and seems to be the brother of Clark.

Does anybody want to telephone him and ask him about his brother's stories?

View PostJimOberg, on 29 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

It might be useful to try to find the brother, as well as Clark's ex-wife. They may have insights into his stories.



#66    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:17 PM

View PostJimOberg, on 29 December 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

You really ought to look at the stuff I've posted at www.jamesoberg.com/ufo.html instead of pretending that if you can ignore it, it doesn't exist.

As I've said many times, you really are an ongoing advertisement--for yourself.


#67    JimOberg

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:37 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 29 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

As I've said many times, you really are an ongoing advertisement--for yourself.

Yes, I do use a real picture of myself, and not hide behind some Hollywood fantasy. Another difference.


#68    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

View PostJimOberg, on 29 December 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Yes, I do use a real picture of myself, and not hide behind some Hollywood fantasy. Another difference.

You don't know what you're talking about.


#69    Pericynthion

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:45 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 29 December 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

And of course there is plenty of evidence for NASA image tampering, also going back to the days of Apollo and Gemini.



You really, really ought to independently verify everything you see in a LunaCognita video.  He makes very polished videos using lots of technical jargon, but he misrepresents a lot of what he reports to push his conspiracy theories.  It should be rather telling to note that he has teamed up with Jose Escamilla to produce UFO conspiracy videos.

This particular YouTube video is one of his more feeble attempts at creating a conspiracy out of thin air.  First of all, he creates a straw man by stating: "After all, both NASA and Westinghouse claim that this camera was built using off-the-shelf mid-1960's 'public' technology."  Please show me where anybody associated with the Apollo program ever claimed that.  This camera was non-standard in just about every possible way.

Yes, the SEC tube portion of the Westinghouse lunar camera was classified Confidential back in the mid-60s and, yes, it did use a fiber optic assembly.  All of this was already public information back in 2008 when LunaCognita posted his YouTube video. In December of 2005, retired Apollo engineer Bill Wood published at the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal a very detailed report on the history of Apollo television technology (link).  This report, published almost three years earlier than LunaCognita's YouTube post, had this to say about the Apollo 11 camera:

Early in the Apollo program NASA became aware of a special low-light television imaging tube that Westinghouse had developed for the Department of Defense.  Due to the war in Viet Nam, the Army was developing low light devices for use as jungle surveillance devices and on aircraft to spot a downed pilot at night.


To meet the DOD requirements Westinghouse developed a sensitive image tube that combined a variable-gain light intensifier with a secondary electron conduction (SEC) target.  The SEC tube had the capability to reproduce objects in motion, at low light levels, without the normal smearing produced by vidicon or image orthicon tubes.


At the time the SEC tube had a DOD security classification as befitted such a device.  Since there was no other device that could possibly meet the Apollo TV camera mission requirement to operate unattended at both lunar day and lunar night and survive all phases of the Apollo mission, the DOD was asked to allow Westinghouse to use the SEC tube for the Apollo TV Camera program.


In fact, the SEC tube design and performance were declassified at the end of 1970.  Here's a link to a 1965 Westinghouse technical report on the camera:

LUNAR TV CAMERA: Technical Summary No. 1, February 1965

If you look at page 3 of the pdf file, you'll see the declassification markings indicating that this document was downgraded from Confidential to Unclassified in January of 1971.

By 1973, the details of the fiber optic portion of the SEC tube were being openly discussed in this completely unclassified NASA report:

Apollo Experience Report:  Television System

From page 16 of the report:


Secondary-Electron-Conduction Tube

The secondary-electron-conduction (SEC) camera tube represents the culmination of efforts to produce a sensor tube of balanced design with high sensitivity, fast response time, simplicity of operation, compactness, ruggedness, and lightweight construction. The basic feature of the tube is the high-gain, fast-response SEC target, which makes it possible to obtain high sensitivity and low-lag performance. The use of electrostatic focus, magnetic deflection, and a low-power heater-cathode structure resulted in major weight, size, and power savings.

The entrance window consists of a plano-concave fiber-optic mosaic with a nominal fiber diameter of 7 microns and a numerical aperture of 1. To prevent light jumping from one fiber to another, each fiber is clad, giving a low index of refraction. In optical bundles, a second cladding of opaque material is normally placed around each fiber so that light outside the acceptance angle is absorbed. Early double-clad mosaics of this type produced flaws or spots, some of which were quite large. New specifications for blemishes are shown in the following table and in figure 13.


There simply isn't any coverup or conspiracy here.  This stuff has all been part of the public Apollo record for years.


#70    JimOberg

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:52 AM

The "secret SEVA" on Apollo-12 is another howler, hyping a careless contractor's confusion over post-landing site surveys into a purposeless and pointless coverup of what would never have been secret -- and wasn't, when it occurred on Apollo-15.


#71    Pericynthion

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:43 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 30 December 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

The "secret SEVA" on Apollo-12 is another howler, hyping a careless contractor's confusion over post-landing site surveys into a purposeless and pointless coverup of what would never have been secret -- and wasn't, when it occurred on Apollo-15.

Yeah, I've been shaking my head over that one for the past few days.  What an amazing story LunaCognita managed to concoct from what was clearly a dumb mistake by an author who wasn't too familiar with the missions.  The whole report was basically just a simple literature survey using the mission reports and crew debriefings.  I saw your earlier posts on ATS about this.  I assume you never got a response when you tried to email the author?


I've been planning on writing a longer post on this one, but first I'd like to ask TheMacGuffin a couple simple questions:

LunaCognita says that the SEVA was done to give the crew a slightly higher look at the local landscape so they could better figure out where they really were.  As Jim mentioned above, what possible reason could anyone have for wanting to keep that secret???

LunaCognita also claims that the photos supposedly taken during this secret SEVA are still classified TOP SECRET.  Why would they be classified at all (assuming they even exist)?  They'd be essentially identical to the hundreds of published photos taken during the two actual EVAs.

If you can give me rational answers to those questions, I'll be happy to show you in more detail why LunaCognita's theories are wrong.  This one, though, is so silly that I'm not going to bother with the technical details until we get past the overall insanity of the whole concept.


#72    topsecretresearch

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:55 AM

Here's more that points to NASA's Secret ET Influence:

Hermann Oberth -- "we have been helped by the people of other worlds"

Quote

Herman Oberth the Father of Rocketry said, We cannot take credit for our record advancement in certain scientific fields, and we have been helped. A reporter asked by whom. He answered, By people of other worlds, Dr Herman stated, We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the matter.


What did Hermann Oberth mean by "helped by the people of other worlds?"

Were ET's in contact with humans guiding us along? Was it through observation, UFO crash recovery operations and reverse engineering?

What's interesting is rocket pioneer Hermann Oberth was a mentor to Wernher von Braun.

Wernher von Braun played a pivital role in the development of NASA and the Apollo program.

In fact Wernher von Braun relied on Hermann Oberth for technical epxertise in the development of the Vergeltungswaffen (V-1, V-2 rocket) during WW.I.I.

Here Von Braun and Oberth are being interviewed in German discussing rocketry:



Here is Hermann Oberth pictured with Major Von Keviczky:

Posted Image
Hermann Oberth and Major Von Keviczky meet on February 25, 1980. Dr. Hermann Oberth, The father of the astronautics already thought at this time that UFOs existed and that they could come from another planet.



Major Von Keviczky (ICUFON) was the first to push for UFO disclosure and help lead hearings at the UN. He also claimed that the Star Wars SDI program was really aimed at ETs.

From: http://templeofthein...m/Obituary.html

Quote


"When the president's science advisor George Keyworth was explaining the SDI research program, Colman pointed out with that roaring voice he had that 'star wars' was really aimed against the galactic forces and not the Soviets."


This would have been before Phillip Corso surfaced and made similar claims.

http://www.peaceinsp.../dr-carol-rosin

Dr. Carol Rosin would claim during the last years of von Braun's life he would speak of ET's and an agenda to weaponize space. Note that Major Von Keviczky pictured with Von Braun's mentor Hermann Oberth claimed the SDI program was targetting these ET/UFO craft.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by topsecretresearch, 30 December 2012 - 06:00 AM.


#73    JimOberg

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:13 AM

Oberth's views, which he developed in the 1950s, are accurately described here. Apparently he came to these views based on what he read in the newspapers at the time.

Von Keviczky was a sweet old man on a personal crusade, he never 'led' any UN anything, he talked about UFO invasions to any audience he had access to.

Rosin's stories are puzzling in how differently she portrays von Braun's 'secret feelings' from what he told everybody else who knew him. Either she was the only person on Earth von Braun revealed his innermost secrets to, or she is exploiting her brfief clerking internship with him to validate ideas she had already developed and wanted to promote.

None of these three people seem to have had any influence on NASA's relationship with the UFO phenomenon.


#74    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:08 AM

View PostPericynthion, on 30 December 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

You really, really ought to independently verify everything you see in a LunaCognita video.  He makes very polished videos using lots of technical jargon, but he misrepresents a lot of what he reports to push his conspiracy theories.  It should be rather telling to note that he has teamed up with Jose Escamilla to produce UFO conspiracy videos.

There simply isn't any coverup or conspiracy here.  This stuff has all been part of the public Apollo record for years.


I was not aware of this information before I saw his video, and certainly it's not something that you have ever "shared" on here.  No one would even have known about it at all had I not posted it.  

In any case, I think Luna Cognita's real point was that the fiber optic camera was classified for many years, and at the time NASA just claimed it was built from off-the-shelf components.  This was not true.  

Another point he makes repeatedly is that the image quality shown to the public was often deliberately degraded by NASA, which Jeff Challender also noted in all the space shuttle missions that involved UFO sightings.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 30 December 2012 - 08:19 AM.


#75    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:11 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 30 December 2012 - 06:13 AM, said:

Oberth's views, which he developed in the 1950s, are accurately described here. Apparently he came to these views based on what he read in the newspapers at the time.

Von Keviczky was a sweet old man on a personal crusade, he never 'led' any UN anything, he talked about UFO invasions to any audience he had access to.

Rosin's stories are puzzling in how differently she portrays von Braun's 'secret feelings' from what he told everybody else who knew him. Either she was the only person on Earth von Braun revealed his innermost secrets to, or she is exploiting her brfief clerking internship with him to validate ideas she had already developed and wanted to promote.

None of these three people seem to have had any influence on NASA's relationship with the UFO phenomenon.

Yes, we know your opinion of anyone whose views on UFOs differ from yours, no matter that they worked for NASA even before you did and had information that you never had.

According to you, NASA has no relationship with any UFO phenomenon because there is a conventional explanation for every UFO report and all the people who claim to have seen UFOs are liars and frauds--if they disagree with you.





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