Does anyone know what the EU does?

[Admiral Danger]

i went on the internet and i found this

The European Union costs us £65 billion gross every year.

That's about £1,000 each every year for every man, woman and child in the UK. And it increases every year.

thats a complete ridiculous amount of money. all that could be spent on paying off the nations debt. but instead its being spent on membership of the EU, who i have no idea how it benefits anyone in any way

so can someone please put me straight before my mind explodes on why the hell britain is paying this much money just for this crap.

The EU was set up in the aftermath of World War Two to bring peace, stability and prosperity to Europe.

between that and telling the government what to do, that can't be it right?

[MichaelW]

Don't they also administer environmental and safety standards for vehicles standards as well i.e Euro NCAP?

[Karlis]

Looks like the 'guesstimated' costs of Britain being a member of EU depends on who does the guessing. This article says that EU 'costs Britain £118bn a year'

That said, how could the world possibly function without a bureaucracy?

Karlis

~~~... EU regulation touches just about every level of every industry. If you want to build something, grow something, mince something, scrap something, recycle something, burn something, paint something, bake something, package something or do a myriad of other things, there is a sheaf of densely typed regulations just for you. In total, red tape from Brussels adds another £100 billion of lost income, extra expenditure and forfeited economic growth to the bill.

The EU’s policies on food production have been particularly disastrous. The Common Fisheries Policy has had a horrendous impact economically, socially and environmentally. Almost 100,000 jobs have been lost in fishing and dependent industries, leading to increased social security bills in devastated fishing communities. Because fishing boats are banned from bringing home fish that exceed their quotes, even if they are caught accidentally, 880,000 tonnes of dead fish are dumped into the North Sea every year. With the fish supply reduced by these quotas and by the radical reduction of fish stocks, prices at the till are increased to the tune of £4.7 billion a year - £186 a year per family.

The same goes for the Common Agricultural Policy. A huge proportion of the EU’s annual budget is spent on dishing out subsidies to European farmers, whose sales are protected by tariff barriers which effectively tax much non-European produce out of the market. On top of our direct taxpayer-funded subsidy, the CAP costs the British consumer an extra £5.3 billion on their food bills.

There are numerous other examples of waste. The VAT system is so dysfunctional that it loses £80 billion of taxpayers’ money a year through carousel fraud. The EU’s libraries are so overfunded and underused that each book loan costs £570. A leaked copy of the secret report by auditor Robert Galvin that we published earlier this year revealed financial irregularities in the accounts of the majority of MEPs in the European Parliament . The list goes on.

Of course, there is heated debate about the actual cost of the EU when everything is taken into account. Various estimates have been produced, ranging from that of the Conseil d’Analyse Economique, which is chaired by the French Prime Minister and which failed to identify any trade benefits from the Single Market or the Euro, to that of the Swiss Federal Government which concluded that joining the EU would cost between six and eight times more than their current relationship with Brussels. The striking thing is that no Government has yet demonstrated in a fully detailed assessment that the EU is of overall benefit to its members.

Remarkably, even the EU itself has failed to produce any convincing figures to demonstrate the benefits of the organisation. Commissioner Gunter Verheugen estimated in 2006 that the cost of regulation to the European economy as a whole is £405 billion a year, while the Commission itself believes that between 1986 and 2002 the Single Market only brought benefits of £110 billion. Even after taking inflation into account, that means that the EU Commission itself believes the costs are three times larger than the benefits. ~~~ ...

Link

[J.B.]

Don't they also administer environmental and safety standards for vehicles standards as well i.e Euro NCAP?

Considering their Copenhagen summit involved transporting a ****-ton of limos into the country, I think they fail at that.

[keithisco]

It has, amongst many other things, created a free trade area (as opposed to Free - Trade Zone) of 500 million people. Within this area you (and I) have the legal right to move freely within its borders, to take up residence in any of the participating members countrys' (ie all of them), to work without let or hindrance in accordance with each tax and social security systems and to claim EU Citizenship (implied rather than de facto).

Harmonisation of social security legislation gives every EU Citizen the right to medical care at Point of Delivery within the EU without the need for producing any documentation other than a national health card or a passport.

As a registered resident you also have the right to vote in national elections and local elections in your country of residence, to ensure that your vote counts.

The one area where this is not currently working is in electing the President of the EU or or it's Foreign Representative (due to the UK and Polish protests on this subject).

Free movement within what is called the Schengen Area does not require any presentation of national identity papers as these countries operate an "open border" policy (again something that The UK opted out of - along with Eire, Cyprus, Romania and Bulgaria)

The EU also has a masive Regional Aid Programme (next time you visit Liverpool, Newcastle, Sunderland, Wales etc) that brings direct benefits to the UK and other recipients of said aid. In fact most regeneration schemes within the UK have direct EU money backing them.

Finally the introduction of the Euro has actually helped UK exports into the zone by not requiring several different money exchange commissions to be made. The only people who benefit from such commission are the FOREX traders and their Instituions (no surprise they have a huge lobby budget in the UK)

Just a couple of points to consider

[stevewinn]

costs us 8 Billion a year to be members and between 80 and 150 Billion to implement all the EU directives.

in short its a load of crap. I've been through it many times why Britain should leave the EU.

If we had strong leaders who had the courage to actually lead then Britain would be better off financially outside the EU. its no surprise that the richest nations in Europe are non EU members.

the free movement of people hasnt helped the UK. all it has done is fill the place up and put a burden on our local services and infrastructure.

The house of lords select committee. found that the free movement of people had brought little to no benefit to the British economy. in fact their findings showed that for the migrants who did benefit the economy, that benefit was only 0.10p that's right ten pence.

so has people can see the free movement of people is a load of steaming crap and maybe if people lived on the frontline IE here in the UK. they'd see what a stupid and ill thought out idea it was and still is.

The EU. is nothing more than a fascist superstate in the making, when you have the EU dictating what size or shape are food has to be before it can be classed has food. example. a fruit and veg shop owner had to throw in the bin a batch of perfectly good kiwi fruits, because the kiwis weighed 33g and in order for them to be legally sold they had to weigh 35g to conform to EU regulations.

up until a couple of months ago it was illegal in the EU to sell misshaped fruit and vegetables. if you had a carrot and it wants the right shade of orange or had knobbly bits on it, it had to be thrown away. that's is how the EU works.

and if they control something has petty has misshaped fruit and vegetables how much further do they need to go before the gobshites who are pro EU will wake up, get a grip. and stop being taken for a ride.

then we could move onto how undemocratic the whole EU is. i mean, its just unbelievable.

[J.B.]

The reason behind the EU was to stop people like Hitler and Stalin from taking over again. Honestly, a Democracy can't really do that anyway, so the EU would have to become the biggest, baddest super-nannystate to ensure that Hitler types die without power. Will it work? I'd say it would take one good actor with some luck to come into power over the EU with horrible intentions, so probably not. Just a matter of time. Only thing to do is separate Europe into small-ish states that cooperate, but remain in total control of themselves. You can /never/ 100% prevent enemies of mankind from stepping into power, you can only make it harder for them to do so, and a military alliance between several separatist states is harder to overcome than a single government you can get voted to the top of.

Edited March 16, 2010 by J.B.

[keithisco]

its no surprise that the richest nations in Europe are non EU members.

the free movement of people hasnt helped the UK. all it has done is fill the place up and put a burden on our local services and infrastructure.

so has people can see the free movement of people is a load of steaming crap and maybe if people lived on the frontline IE here in the UK. they'd see what a stupid and ill thought out idea it was and still is.

So... the five richest nations in Europe Germany, Great Britain, belgium, France & Italy are not members of the EU

I think there is a kink in your anti-EU rhetorrhic

Free movement within the EU has certainly helped those in the UK with the gumption to make it work for them - it is those left behind that should also make it work for them at home - as it could were it not for hysterical xenophobics who really dont understand HOW to make it work. IMO

[stevewinn]

So... the five richest nations in Europe Germany, Great Britain, belgium, France & Italy are not members of the EU

I think there is a kink in your anti-EU rhetorrhic

Free movement within the EU has certainly helped those in the UK with the gumption to make it work for them - it is those left behind that should also make it work for them at home - as it could were it not for hysterical xenophobics who really dont understand HOW to make it work. IMO

the countries you've posted are the biggest economies in Europe but go google search again. but this time look at both per capita's. you'll find the five countries you've listed are behind the two non EU members. no kink here. just to shrewd for this game.

[Mr Black]

as long as we keep the pound sterling I'll be as happy as can be expected, the day we loose that will be a sad day

Edited March 17, 2010 by Jack Black

[stevewinn]

as long as we keep the pound sterling I'll be as happy as can be expected, the day we loose that will be a sad day

well the plan is for all EEC countries to become member states and eventually all have one currency. this was even laid out in 1979. in secret government documents. i wish this program was available in full.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXJozMOQgXA

[Caesar]

as long as we keep the pound sterling I'll be as happy as can be expected, the day we loose that will be a sad day

If they dropped the sterling and went with the Euro, you would be in the same boat as Greece.

[keithisco]

the countries you've posted are the biggest economies in Europe but go google search again. but this time look at both per capita's. you'll find the five countries you've listed are behind the two non EU members. no kink here. just to shrewd for this game.

"Too shrewd"? No, just being disingenuous by quoting a base that is not regarded as an accurate reflection of Standard of Living (assuming you are referring to Liechtenstein as the wealthiest country). Even using your criteria then Luxembourg comes out as 2nd wealthiest nation.

Lets consider a more accurate measure of wealth - that is Gross Domestic Product derived from Purchasing Power Parity.

From the IMF (2008) the five "richest" nations in Europe are: Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain (ALL EU Members.

From the World Bank (2008): as above : Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain. The world bank also cites the Eurozone, as second wealthiest after the USA.

From the "CIA World Factbook" (2009): As above, Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain. The European Union is also cited as the wealthiest with the USA being 2nd.

So, your attempt at discrediting both the EU and the Eurozone is revealed to be the Straw Man argument that it really is...IMO

[keithisco]

If they dropped the sterling and went with the Euro, you would be in the same boat as Greece.

Why?? Greece's internal economy is not a reflection of the strength of the Euro.

[stevewinn]

"Too shrewd"? No, just being disingenuous by quoting a base that is not regarded as an accurate reflection of Standard of Living (assuming you are referring to Liechtenstein as the wealthiest country). Even using your criteria then Luxembourg comes out as 2nd wealthiest nation.

Lets consider a more accurate measure of wealth - that is Gross Domestic Product derived from Purchasing Power Parity.

From the IMF (2008) the five "richest" nations in Europe are: Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain (ALL EU Members.

From the World Bank (2008): as above : Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain. The world bank also cites the Eurozone, as second wealthiest after the USA.

From the "CIA World Factbook" (2009): As above, Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain. The European Union is also cited as the wealthiest with the USA being 2nd.

So, your attempt at discrediting both the EU and the Eurozone is revealed to be the Straw Man argument that it really is...IMO

was i right or was i right hold your hands up, instead of shooting from the hip you shot from the lip.

you immediately jumped to the wrong conclusion by thinking i was referring to GDP. when i wasn't. - many ways to skin a cat.

take Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, all non EU members, - but are members of the free trade association. and yet these three countries sell more to the EU per capita from outside it than we do and where inside has full EU members.

[J.B.]

"Too shrewd"? No, just being disingenuous by quoting a base that is not regarded as an accurate reflection of Standard of Living (assuming you are referring to Liechtenstein as the wealthiest country). Even using your criteria then Luxembourg comes out as 2nd wealthiest nation.

Lets consider a more accurate measure of wealth - that is Gross Domestic Product derived from Purchasing Power Parity.

From the IMF (2008) the five "richest" nations in Europe are: Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain (ALL EU Members.

From the World Bank (2008): as above : Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain. The world bank also cites the Eurozone, as second wealthiest after the USA.

From the "CIA World Factbook" (2009): As above, Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain. The European Union is also cited as the wealthiest with the USA being 2nd.

So, your attempt at discrediting both the EU and the Eurozone is revealed to be the Straw Man argument that it really is...IMO

The IMf was set up to support the EU. . . at least the idea of it. It will never be a credible source to anyone who hates the EU. They're in bed together. . . but if you find a non-IMf source, then by all means we'll view it.

[keithisco]

1. you immediately jumped to the wrong conclusion by thinking i was referring to GDP. when i wasn't. - many ways to skin a cat.

2. take Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, all non EU members, - but are members of the free trade association. and yet these three countries sell more to the EU per capita from outside it than we do and where inside has full EU members.

Your quote:

its no surprise that the richest nations in Europe are non EU members

In reply:

1. Of course you didnt actually quote the source for your assertion because it would have been laughed at. GDP derived from Purchasing Power Parity is the accepted norm for determining a nations wealth, therefore its ranking in the world.

Switzerlands negotiations are currently frozen - but by no means ended as Switzerland is a member of the Schengen area and signed up to many EU directives.

2. I want to see your sources for the 2nd statement you make because they verge on the farcical.

3. Liechtenstein has more registered companies than it has population - it is simply a tax haven producing nothing more than Banking facilities. It is therefore irrelevant because it is these institutions that generate the wealth and this wealth is in no way distributive amongst the nation as a whole.

PS. Does your keyboard automatically put an "H" in front of "as"? If so I would want to get it checked out

[keithisco]

The IMf was set up to support the EU. . . at least the idea of it. It will never be a credible source to anyone who hates the EU. They're in bed together. . . but if you find a non-IMf source, then by all means we'll view it.

*serious face - palm*

The IMF was set up a long time BEFORE the EU (EEC) even existed. The woeful lack of knowledge exhibited in this thread is ...is... *another face - palm*

[Caesar]

Why?? Greece's internal economy is not a reflection of the strength of the Euro.

Greece along with Spain, Portugal and others have brought the the value of the Euro down and investers and other institutions dumped the Euro and bought dollars. having its own currency would give them much more options like Britain does. now they must sell bonds that offer much higher rates, this puts them even deeper in the hole. so if the economy of Germany was getting better, they would also want to raise rates. I think the only way Greece would make it, would be to drop the Euro and offer its old currecy. there will be more pain but I think it wouldn't go on for what seems to be forever.

[keithisco]

Greece along with Spain, Portugal and others have brought the the value of the Euro down and investers and other institutions dumped the Euro and bought dollars. having its own currency would give them much more options like Britain does. now they must sell bonds that offer much higher rates, this puts them even deeper in the hole. so if the economy of Germany was getting better, they would also want to raise rates. I think the only way Greece would make it, would be to drop the Euro and offer its old currecy. there will be more pain but I think it wouldn't go on for what seems to be forever.

What?? *more face - palms* the value of the Euro against the USDollar and the Pound (Sterling) has never been higher.... Britain has NO options, it's just a case of "suck it and see what happens" as far as the Libra Esterlina is concerned.

Greece IS NOT the eurozone, it has INTERNAL problems unrelated to the currency.

My previous post stands unchallenged.

[Caesar]

What?? *more face - palms* the value of the Euro against the USDollar and the Pound (Sterling) has never been higher....

What planet are you on? the dollar has gained alot against the Euro since the troubles of Greece, Spain Portugal and others. in Sep 2009 1 Euro = USD 1.56 now its 1 Euro = USD 1.3660

Britain has NO options, it's just a case of "suck it and see what happens" as far as the Libra Esterlina is concerned.

Britain has control over its money supply and they don't have to follow any Rules of the EU in terms of spending, debt limits ect, thats much more control over what Greece and Spain have over the Euro.

Greece IS NOT the eurozone, it has INTERNAL problems unrelated to the currency.

It has problems with its large government unions workers that they cant afford along with other spending problems. now since they are part of the eurozone it has no control over monetary policy. the only real option is to borrow more money and pay higher rates so people will buy them because since they do not have a great credit score, they are a risk and investors want a higher rate to take this risk.

My previous post stands unchallenged.

Your previous post doesn't reflect the facts, the facts that Greece's economy is pulling the Euro down. you see most other major currencies are up against the Euro

Face palm this

Greek Woes Hit Euro, Bank Stocks

Euro Falls After Greece Says May Seek IMF Help

Dollar up on euro as Greece woes resurface

[stevewinn]

2. I want to see your sources for the 2nd statement you make because they verge on the farcical.

everything am referring to is spot on. FACT. per capita Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, non EU members are a head of the five countries you posted. UK, Germany, France etc.....

source for the 2nd statement "verging" on the farcical. believe me its far from farcical. its FACT. source is Daniel Hannan conservative MEP to Andrew Neil on the daily politics show.

exact quote "No amount of propaganda can get around one stubborn statistic: every EFTA state exports more per capita to the EU that does Britain. Switzerland, for example, sells more than twice as much per head to the EU from outside than Britain does from inside"

figures i beileve can be found on eurostat.

**SNIP**

Edited March 19, 2010 by ~Onyx~
Personal attack

[keithisco]

everything am referring to is spot on. FACT. per capita Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, non EU members are a head of the five countries you posted. UK, Germany, France etc.....

source for the 2nd statement "verging" on the farcical. believe me its far from farcical. its FACT. source is Daniel Hannan conservative MEP to Andrew Neil on the daily politics show.

exact quote "No amount of propaganda can get around one stubborn statistic: every EFTA state exports more per capita to the EU that does Britain. Switzerland, for example, sells more than twice as much per head to the EU from outside than Britain does from inside"

figures i beileve can be found on eurostat.

From my post #17...

1. Of course you didnt actually quote the source for your assertion because it would have been laughed at. GDP derived from Purchasing Power Parity is the accepted norm for determining a nations wealth, therefore its ranking in the world

This remains unchallenged!

Also: "source is Daniel Hannan conservative MEP to Andrew Neil on the "Daily Poilitics Show" does not constitute a source for the data, rather a second-hand source of a statement itself unsupported by a source.

And: are you comparing exports against a nations total output, as a percentage of total exports, in simple monetary terms or something else?

Tell me, where does Luxembourg (an EU member) figure in the statistics??

I shall forego using a childish link at the end of my posts redirecting to a picture of someone sticking 2 fingers up.

Edited March 19, 2010 by ~Onyx~

[keithisco]

What planet are you on? the dollar has gained alot against the Euro since the troubles of Greece, Spain Portugal and others. in Sep 2009 1 Euro = USD 1.56 now its 1 Euro = USD 1.3660

Britain has control over its money supply and they don't have to follow any Rules of the EU in terms of spending, debt limits ect, thats much more control over what Greece and Spain have over the Euro.

Your previous post doesn't reflect the facts, the facts that Greece's economy is pulling the Euro down. you see most other major currencies are up against the Euro

Face palm this

Greek Woes Hit Euro, Bank Stocks

Euro Falls After Greece Says May Seek IMF Help

Dollar up on euro as Greece woes resurface

Considering that the Euro is recovering quickly on the FOREX markets, without the economic situation in Greece improving (quite the opposite in fact) shows the resilience of the Euro and indicates that Greece is NOT pulling the euro down

Source

I remain confident that the Euro will also reach parity with the GB Pound at some point in the summer.

[keithisco]

Here's something you all might like to read: Exposes many of the Euromyths still being propounded in this and other fora

Euromyths