Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Is there more to John 19:26, 19:27 and 19:30?


  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#46    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:05 AM

Thank you, Ciss. We're all in this together. Like you clearly said, "...my foundation did remain...," who is Jesus Christ.

Peace to all.

Paul

Edited by braveone2u, 11 January 2013 - 05:08 AM.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#47    Ciss

Ciss

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 437 posts
  • Joined:27 Mar 2008
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:40 AM

Yeah, if Christ was willing to have his own foundation shaken just to show us what would remain, then we also can expect the same..

My God, My God why have you forsaken me?  First step into the unknown, split second of not knowing his own divinity.. Christ does know what we all experience in that moment...we are not alone.


#48    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

  • Member
  • 7,621 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal

  • We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 11 January 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Jor-el' qoute-

Mark 3:20-31

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law

20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”
23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”
31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.

Let me ask you a question... Why didn't they go in and call him themselves? were they afraid, were they embarrassed? Why did they need to ask someone else to go into that house and call Jesus out of it? The simple truth is explained quite clearly in the 1st verse... They thought Jesus was out of his mind. Jesus mother came round earlier than the others, but she too thought he was out of his mind. It is right there in the text.




There nothing in the text that says Jesus`s family that came thought Jesus was out of his mind,if anything they came to support him.

http://www.bluelette...r&c=3&v=1&t=KJV

That is a really strange statement when contrasted with the clarity of the text. The bible translators thought so as well didn't they? They Put the title at the top of the text...

Quoting the KJV to me doesn't give me anything to work with. What did you intend by sourcing that link?

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#49    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

  • Member
  • 7,621 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal

  • We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 11 January 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Hello Jor-el,

Hopefully, none of us would be put to that particular situation if we were to be placed back in that space and time. Everything is always possible through God, the Supreme Superantural Being. My Jesus is exactly that -- Supreme Superanatural Being, at one time in the flesh.  I, for one, would never condemn them as lying. To conceal his divine nature is not the same as lying. Talk about being true to one's family! Then again, that's irrelevant to my theory.

"Arrived." Therefore, the brothers were not part of the "family" and angry crowd inside.

"For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother." And it's another example why my theory (voila feeling) is reverbering throughout the New Testiment. I'm not surprised.


Peace.

Paul

Very well, that is your view but consider the fact that it is incorrect interpretational procedure. The text is giving an overview of the situation in broad strokes, the very 1st verse that mentions his family is not somehow independent and seperated from the rest of the text. It is an integral part of it.

Upon analysis we can divide the text into specific points.

Location: a specific house where the events take place.
People present at the house: A crowd of people who were listening to Jesus, a group of techers of the Law who were accusing him of being "possessed by a demon" and finally, his family were present as well.

Does his family state or not that Jesus is "out of his mind"?

By doing so, are they stating their belief or are they lying to protect him?

Did Jesus actually need that protection if it were such?

How does Jesus response art the end in verses 33 and 34 fit into the overall sequence of the text if on one hand he was being accused by his family or on the other hand, they were trying to protect him by lying?

When one answers these questions objectively, there is only one answer.

The answer is given at the very beginning of the text as a heading, which is not part of the original text, but was added by the translators to summarize the text in question... Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law

Edited by Jor-el, 11 January 2013 - 07:10 PM.

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#50    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:08 PM

View PostJor-el, on 11 January 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

Very well, that is your view but consider the fact that it is incorrect interpretational procedure. The text is giving an overview of the situation in broad strokes, the very 1st verse that mentions his family is not somehow independent and seperated from the rest of the text. It is an integral part of it.

Upon analysis we can divide the text into specific points.

Location: a specific house where the events take place.
People present at the house: A crowd of people who were listening to Jesus, a group of techers of the Law who were accusing him of being "possessed by a demon" and finally, his family were present as well.

Does his family state or not that Jesus is "out of his mind"?

By doing so, are they stating their belief or are they lying to protect him?

Did Jesus actually need that protection if it were such?

How does Jesus response art the end in verses 33 and 34 fit into the overall sequence of the text if on one hand he was being accused by his family or on the other hand, they were trying to protect him by lying?

When one answers these questions objectively, there is only one answer.

The answer is given at the very beginning of the text as a heading, which is not part of the original text, but was added by the translators to summarize the text in question... Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law
Hi Jor-el,

[Very well, that is your view but consider the fact that it is incorrect interpretational procedure.]  Listen to what you're saying. How can you expect me to take you seriously?

[Does his family state or not that Jesus is "out of his mind"?] I've already given you my answer to that. I guess you didn't get the Voila Feeling.

[Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law]  That's a matter of enterpretation, for it is someone else's "theory," don't you find?? Thank God for The Protestant Reformation; otherwise, we would still be in the Inquisition period.

You always have to keep in mind that this is my theory, not yours, nor someone else's concoction. Again, you didn't get that Voila Feeling. "That's okay." Others did. Well, that's something for you to think about, n'est-ce pas?

Peace always,

Paul

Edited by braveone2u, 11 January 2013 - 09:11 PM.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#51    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

ASIDE 101:
If you were part of Jesus' relatives (with knowledge of his otherworldly nature due to his miraculous works) and in your sane mind, wouldn't you conceal his otherworldly nature to protect him from the jealous, madden crowd since he's a good, loving man (to say the least), and a man of God, and some even called him, "Rabbi," (including the fact that he's part of your "family" and you're Jewish, let's not forget)?


I highly doubt it if they would even lay a finger on Jesus. It's a small town and he was surrounded by his "family." Keep in mind, it's Jesus' turf, not downtown Los Angeles or Jerusalem  -- knock, knock?

“He is out of his mind...(for God).” Again, it's a matter of interpretation. Not every dialo-gue said was written in the Book, surely? Again, thank God for The Reformation.


Plus, where is the exclamation point in Mark 3:21? (to nitpick) To put my mind in an actor's position, I could easily say that in a number of ways.

I know a perfect book when I read one -- I am a published Hollywood writer, after all...and a prodigy, as icing on the cake.

Edited by braveone2u, 11 January 2013 - 10:16 PM.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#52    Bluefinger

Bluefinger

    I am a Christian, and I understand many don't like that. .

  • Member
  • 4,799 posts
  • Joined:02 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minot, ND

  • "You'll know them by their fruits."

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:32 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 07 January 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

John 19:26
"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he said unto his mother, 'Woman, behold your son!'"


John 19:27
"Then said he to the disciple, 'Behold your mother!' And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home."


Hi,

Please read John 19:26 and John 19:27.

Is there more to this than what's being conveyed on the surface?

Before answering the first question, was it a Jewish tradition to adopt out your mother before you die? With this in mind, think of the gravity of adopting out your own beloved mother, the woman who brought you into this world. Surely, a simple request would've done it, don't you think?



John 19:30
"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished,' and he bowed his head, and gave up his spirit."

And last, what was the "it" when Jesus said, "It is finished"?  Would love to read your replies.

Peace and blessed 2013 to all.


Paul

I can't answer your first question with certainty, though it makes sense.

For your second, its likely that Jesus was quoting Scripture.  One possibility would be this:

""Seventy weeks  are decreed about your people and  your holy city, to finish  the transgression, to put an end to sin,  and to atone for iniquity,  to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and  to anoint a most holy place." (Daniel 9:24 ESV)

Jesus had finished transgression, put an end to sin, atoned for iniquity, brought in everlasting righteousness (kingdom of God), fulfilled all that was prophesied about Himself, and anointed His body as the holy place (which He rebuilt in three days.)

All this occurred at the cross and during His resurrection.  Likely, since John wrote from a very theological position, focusing highly on the regeneration of the believer's soul, that "It is finished" had something to do with that.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#53    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:08 AM

Hi Bluefinger,

Please keep in mind that I'm not discounting your position, and as a Christian, I believe Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9:24 ESV, but I think this particular situation is of an intimate nature. It's more like talking to himself, like a closing soliloquy. On the hand, this is just my take on this.


Peace.

Paul

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#54    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

  • Member
  • 7,621 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal

  • We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:36 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 11 January 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Hi Jor-el,

[Very well, that is your view but consider the fact that it is incorrect interpretational procedure.]  Listen to what you're saying. How can you expect me to take you seriously?

[Does his family state or not that Jesus is "out of his mind"?] I've already given you my answer to that. I guess you didn't get the Voila Feeling.

[Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law]  That's a matter of enterpretation, for it is someone else's "theory," don't you find?? Thank God for The Protestant Reformation; otherwise, we would still be in the Inquisition period.

You always have to keep in mind that this is my theory, not yours, nor someone else's concoction. Again, you didn't get that Voila Feeling. "That's okay." Others did. Well, that's something for you to think about, n'est-ce pas?

Peace always,

Paul

I don't discount that you can get a voila feeling about scripture, any scripture. What I have learned though is that one also has to use the rules of textual interpretation when one is analysing a text. It doesn't matter whether its the bible or something else. Those rules areestablished so that we can get a common view that satisfies the text.

We call those established rules, Hermeneutics and more specifically the field of Exegesis.

As you stated, you are going by your own feeling of the text, whether your personal interpretation fits in with the established rules of interpretational procedure is something that you will have to decide upon further study.

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#55    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:19 AM

View PostJor-el, on 12 January 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I don't discount that you can get a voila feeling about scripture, any scripture. What I have learned though is that one also has to use the rules of textual interpretation when one is analysing a text. It doesn't matter whether its the bible or something else. Those rules areestablished so that we can get a common view that satisfies the text.

We call those established rules, Hermeneutics and more specifically the field of Exegesis.

As you stated, you are going by your own feeling of the text, whether your personal interpretation fits in with the established rules of interpretational procedure is something that you will have to decide upon further study.
Hello Jor-el,

I totally understand what you're saying; however, I'm still going by my Voila Feeling. After all, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us, don't we?? In fact, this came from a dream, a vivid dream -- a sign for me to go back to Christianity. It's not just a dry, scholarly interpretation. Believe me, I've read your comments very intensely, but they don't hold up, I'm sorry to say; however, keep them coming.

Peace always,

Paul

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#56    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

  • Member
  • 7,621 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal

  • We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 12 January 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Hello Jor-el,

I totally understand what you're saying; however, I'm still going by my Voila Feeling. After all, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us, don't we?? In fact, this came from a dream, a vivid dream -- a sign for me to go back to Christianity. It's not just a dry, scholarly interpretation. Believe me, I've read your comments very intensely, but they don't hold up, I'm sorry to say; however, keep them coming.

Peace always,

Paul

Can the Holy Spirit contradict Scripture?

Yes he can...

Does the Holy Spirit actually do so?

Edited by Jor-el, 12 January 2013 - 11:28 AM.

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#57    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:30 AM

The Holy Spirit is not contradicting Scripture; however, who wrote those Scriptures down, the ones you presented to me?


["The answer is given at the very beginning of the text as a heading, which is not part of the original text, but was added by the translators to summarize the text in question... Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law "]

Edited by braveone2u, 12 January 2013 - 12:13 PM.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#58    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

Again, I take my theory, the one that I received which has changed my life completely...before your findings.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#59    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:38 AM

I say "theory" because it's really up to the reader to get that Voila Feeling...or not. It's not a theory to me, but I'm only speaking for myself on this. It's up to the reader.

Edited by braveone2u, 12 January 2013 - 11:39 AM.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#60    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

View PostJor-el, on 12 January 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Can the Holy Spirit contradict Scripture?

Yes he can...

I've already given you my answer. Read the above posts.

Peace.

Paul

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users