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One Million Moms versus One Million Moms


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#1    Jessica Christ

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:22 AM

Below and presented to you are two different narratives within the culture wars. There is not really a need to argue on this thread, these are two different issues, but these moms are mobilizing in different ways, they have different thoughts of what they see as the number one issues in America today, so they each take different courses of actions.

Basically there is a variety of views, not everyone thinks the same but we all have to share the same space. Just knowing that others think differently is the point of this thread and just knowing that others think differently can change our own perceptions of how we engage others.


Quote

One Million Moms is a fundamentalist Christian organization. Its goal is to eliminate the presence of gays and lesbians from the public eye. It also targets blasphemy in the media and double entendres about sex. I joined One Million Moms because I wanted to see how a group like this carries out a campaign of intolerance.

Soon after I became a member of One Million Moms, I received a “call to action” by email that implored me to threaten the management of JCPenney with a boycott unless they fired Ellen DeGeneres as their spokesperson. It seems that Ms. DeGeneres has an agenda “that goes against Biblical values.” So I sent an email to JCPenney telling them how impressed I was with their Ellen DeGeneres commercials.

Another call to action was over a single episode of the TV show Person of Interest. According to One Million Moms, the show “went way too far in an attempt to normalize homosexuality when creator and producer J.J. Abrams introduced a married lesbian couple”—a female heart surgeon and her female partner. Million Moms said “The show treated this immoral relationship just like any other married couple. This is a way of promoting the homosexual agenda by making it appear absolutely normal.”

One Million Moms: Intolerance of Biblical Proportions

Quote

Much like Mothers Against Drunk Driving was created to reduce drunk driving, One Million Moms for Gun Control was created to reduce senseless acts of gun violence. One Million Moms for Gun Control is demanding common sense solutions to the lax gun laws and loopholes that have resulted in a dangerous proliferation of deadly weapons. We are not asking our government to ban guns. We simply support common sense solutions to the overwhelming and increasing gun violence in America. Moms are an important voice that when harnessed will wield significant change. There are 4 million NRA members; there are 84 million American moms. One Million Moms for Gun Control is asking our elected officials to: 1) Reinstate the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. 2) Close gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks. 3) Set boundaries on how much ammunition a person can purchase. 4) Limit the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

One Million Moms For Gun Control

I read elsewhere but could not find it, that the One Million Moms for Gun Control plan to march on Washington.

If we must score the two and compare it would seem the One Million Moms against homosexuality are better organized, but maybe they need to be better organized since they feel more threatened? Maybe they are better organized simply because their issue is an older one and had more time to develop?


===================================================


Then we have to ask ourselves how if anything, how are these issues tied together? Some will see that most likely the moms for gun control are also for equal rights while the other moms against equal rights for homosexuals are for gun rights.

Others will claim that is not the case, and how they are the exception, or they know others who are exception, but as a general rule many of these issues are clustered together and that is nothing new. In American history.

One of the biggest issues in the past was Prohibition. Those who were for Prohibition or against it also carried a catalog of other issues that were more or less uniform. From the standpoint we have now and are able to look back it is interesting to see which issues triumphed and which did not. In the end some get a little of what they want but not all of it. We have to share. The future will show us how we did and future generations will score which issues won out and which did not. In either case resolution will arrive and new issues will develop.

Quote

On the political beliefs shared by a majority of Prohibitionists

"It largely had to do with a xenophobic, largely anti-immigration feeling that arose in the American Middle West, that arose among white, native-born Protestants. It also had a strong racist element to it. Prohibition was a tool that the white South could use to keep down the black population. In fact, they used Prohibition to keep liquor away from black people but not from white people. So you could find a number of ways that people could come into whatever issue they wanted to use and use Prohibition as their tool. The clearest one, probably, was women's suffrage. Oddly, the suffrage movement and the Prohibition movement were almost one and the same — and you found organizations like the Ku Klux Klan supporting women's suffrage because they believed women would vote on behalf of Prohibition."

On how animosity toward German beer brewers led to the ratification of the Prohibition amendment

"This was the final thing that enabled the ratification of the Prohibition amendment. You needed 36 states to approve it, and this was happening just as the U.S. was entering World War I. And the great enemy was Germany — and the brewers were seen by the Prohibitionists as tools of the Kaiser. [Or] if they weren't actually seen as them [by the Prohibitionists], they were used for that purpose to make their political point. So you have a rising tide of strong anti-German feelings sweeping across the country, [and] the brewers got swept away with it."

On the connection between the suffrage movement and the temperance movement

"It largely had to do with the fact that in the 19th century, women had no political rights or property rights. So as the saloon culture began to grow up and we would see men going off to the saloon and getting drunk ... Susan B. Anthony, in the late 1840s, makes her first attempt to make a speech in public life at a temperance convention. This was before she connected with the suffragist movement. She rose to speak at a meeting of the Sons of Temperance in New York, and they said, 'You can't speak. You don't have the rights. Women aren't allowed to speak here.' And that's what pushed her into the suffragist movement. So in fact, you could say that the birth of the suffragist movement comes with the wish to get rid of alcohol."

On the people who advocated for Prohibition but drank anyway

"The wet-drys were people who had no problem perceiving themselves as moral in a public arena and less so in the private arena — or maybe they didn't see it as a moral issue at all. So you had many, many scores of [representatives] and senators who very openly appreciated their alcohol and continued to drink their alcohol but voted against [alcohol consumption]. [Wayne Bidwell] Wheeler of the Anti-Saloon League said, 'I don't care how a man drinks; I care how he votes and how he prays.' That was the way that he kind of put the shine on people who may have been not so appealing. Warren Harding was a great example of it. Warren Harding loved his scotch and soda. He owned stock in a brewery. He also valued his political survival and he made a deal with the Anti-Saloon League that he would vote to support their cause if they would vote to support him when he ran for office. That's how he got elected to the Senate."'

Prohibition loopholes

"The first was that [alcohol] enabled the farmer to preserve his fruit ... which is to say, to take the fruit crop and preserve it over the winter, which literally meant take the apple. Turn it into hard cider. And the hard cider into apple jack, which was legal in the farm districts across the country. Interestingly, the farm districts were the ones that most supported Prohibition.

"The second one was medicinal liquor. I have a bottle on my shelf at home — an empty bottle — that says Jim Beam, for medicinal purposes only. In 1917, the American Medical Association — supporting Prohibition — said there was no reason at all to use alcohol as a therapeutic remedy of any kind. Then they realized with this loophole that there was an opportunity to make some money. And capitalism abhors a vacuum. Within two or three years, you could go into virtually any city in the country and buy a prescription for $3 from your local physician and then take it to your local pharmacy and go home with a pint of liquor every 10 days. And this is really how many of the large distilleries in Kentucky and the middle of the country stayed in business throughout the Prohibition years.

"The third loophole is sacramental wine. Among the groups who opposed Prohibition were the Catholics and the Jews — very avidly — and not necessarily for religious reasons; I think more for cultural reasons. ... Tangentially to that, there was the reality that wine is used in the Catholic sacrament for Communion. ... The Jews needed their sacramental wine for the Sabbath service and other services. They were entitled — under the rules — for 10 gallons per adult per year. ... There was no official way to determine who was a rabbi. So people who claimed to be rabbis would get a license to distribute to congregations that didn't even exist. On the other side of that, one congregation in Los Angeles went from 180 families to 1,000 families within the very first 12 months of Prohibition. You joined a congregation; you got your wine from your rabbi."

Prohibition Life: Politics, Loopholes And Bathtub Gin


#2    Rlyeh

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:33 AM

According to their website, they're christian fundies against anything mildly offensive

http://onemillionmoms.com/

They claim to be a different group to the gun control one.

"There has been some confusion recently in the media and on the Internet concerning One Million Moms, a conservative, Christian group affiliated with American Family Association since 2001. We, One Million Moms, are not affiliated with the group One Million Moms for Gun Control. This is a completely different organization that was newly formed on December 14, 2012. Hopefully this information will clear up any confusion that has been caused since these are two separate entities, and we would never want you misled"

Edited by Rlyeh, 21 May 2013 - 10:36 AM.


#3    Jessica Christ

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:37 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 21 May 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

According to their website, they're christian fundies against anything mildly offensive

http://onemillionmoms.com/

They claim to be a different group to the gun control one.

"There has been some confusion recently in the media and on the Internet concerning One Million Moms, a conservative, Christian group affiliated with American Family Association since 2001. We, One Million Moms, are not affiliated with the group One Million Moms for Gun Control. This is a completely different organization that was newly formed on December 14, 2012. Hopefully this information will clear up any confusion that has been caused since these are two separate entities, and we would never want you misled"

Sort of like Westboro but with cupcakes?


#4    Rlyeh

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 21 May 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Sort of like Westboro but with cupcakes?
They don't seem to be picketing funerals yet, just endless complaining like most moms do. lol


#5    Jessica Christ

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:50 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 21 May 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

They don't seem to be picketing funerals yet, just endless complaining like most moms do. lol

lol

So what do you think of the overall theme of this thread, comparing those one million moms to the other one million moms? And how both might have their own set of other political views which in the future some will win out, others will not, but in the end both sets of one million moms will win something but both will lose something?


#6    Rlyeh

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 21 May 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

lol

So what do you think of the overall theme of this thread, comparing those one million moms to the other one million moms? And how both might have their own set of other political views which in the future some will win out, others will not, but in the end both sets of one million moms will win something but both will lose something?
I see gun control a more likely reality than banning homosexuality in media.


#7    Wickian

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:09 PM

We're a big country with a lot of different sub-cultures, not everyone is going to have the same point of view.  This is why having separate states is a good thing, you can work towards moving to one that fits your ideologies best.


#8    Rafterman

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:51 PM

There's also a "one million moms" group AGAINST gun control.

"You can't have freedom of religion without having freedom from the religious beliefs of other people."

#9    Dark_Grey

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:25 PM

For some reason I read the thread title as "One million mormons vs. one million moms" :w00t: (I had a few teeth pulled over the weekend and I'm still shaking off the meds...sorry, carry on!)

Exploring your own consciousness is the fundamental right of every individual

Locking people in a cage because they choose to exercise that right should be considered a crime against humanity


#10    Kowalski

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:37 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 21 May 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

For some reason I read the thread title as "One million mormons vs. one million moms" :w00t: (I had a few teeth pulled over the weekend and I'm still shaking off the meds...sorry, carry on!)

:w00t:

Hope you get to feeling better. I hate having my teeth worked on...


#11    ninjadude

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:23 PM

You do realize that "One Million Moms" doesn't have one million anything? It's a name they created. In fact, they are a very small ignorant group.

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#12    through the fire

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:34 PM

You could have shortened the thread title to "2 million scumbags".


#13    Michelle

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:49 PM

View Postninjadude, on 22 May 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

You do realize that "One Million Moms" doesn't have one million anything? It's a name they created. In fact, they are a very small ignorant group.

Like the 99% did...


#14    supervike

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 04:17 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 21 May 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

For some reason I read the thread title as "One million mormons vs. one million moms" :w00t: (

I'm hoping that is on Pay Per View.


#15    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 04:20 PM

View Postthrough the fire, on 22 May 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

You could have shortened the thread title to "2 million scumbags".

The thread was to compare overall issues, how issues are bundled, and included American history since we will repeat it in that out of all the issues tied together in the past by one group, there will be some that succeed and some that do not throughout time. Perspective is important because too many consider their overall platforms as a win or lose all type of situation while ignoring negotiation and slower paced dialogue.

For instance Susan B Anthony first spoke up at a group who were against drinking. The men there said women could not speak publicly. She then helped start the suffragette movement. So at that time many against drinking were really against saloons where the new class of Southern European (Catholic) immigrants gathered and began voting against the more traditional (at that time) Protestant American values as a result of thr saloons.

So we had the KKK at that time against immigration from Catholic countries, against saloons, against the developing urban values, but they also supported the right for women to vote because they thought women would vote for Prohibition, and women would because they also hated saloons since many men would spend far too much money there while drinking and ending up cheating in some cases.

There were a host of other issues which the NPR interview found in the OP link discusses.

We can see that throughout time women did get the right to vote but that Prohibition ultimately failed even if at that time if you were for one issue you were most likely for other issues as well and the group you were in all agreed.

We are not in win all or lose all situations. What we believe can be detangled and in time one issue we support will be embraced nationally and ultimately while another will be forgotten.

Of course this is just one angle of discussion. Others can choose to simply use this thread to attack the other side in a very broad based way. No problems or worries from me.

But if others want a deeper conversation with less contention then that is most welcomed by me.

Dispassionate forecast is another angle: in the future it is possible we will see same-sex marriage allowed in all 50 states, an overall strengthening of universal rights, tighter gun control but we will not see gun confiscations, those in the countryside will continue hunting and purchasing firearms, their culture will be better respected.

Consumerism will not chiefly dominate, the next big issues might be better debt control, making people and corporations more responsible, less borrowing and profiting on debt, the national infrastructure will become a bigger issue as our streets and infrastructure like water and gas lines are repaired, better damage control in natural disasters, and better neighborhoods with less violent (already going down) and property crimes.

For me the most important issues are better schools and healthcare. Less attacking others and wanting to see heads roll and more cooperation to strenghten our nation.

The current polarization is just a phase and will not last.







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