Why do people jump the gun?

[Alienated Being]

Over the past few days that I've been more active around this site, I've noticed something here in this particular forum. In different threads, where people have described "paranormal" experiences, people automatically jump to the conclusion that it's either a "demonic" or "spiritual" entity. What I've noticed is that alot of the people here really don't put forward rational thinking, thinking which does not include science.

For example; somebody is feeling as if they're being watched, and they make a thread about it. This person is really convinced that it is a spirit, and does not think of any logical explanation as to what it may be. Or maybe he does, but he still, for some weird reason, thinks it's a ghost even when it's the least likely case. Individuals will come into a thread, and say something along the lines of "Perhaps it's a demon, or it's a ghost. One or the other."

There are some really logical thinkers on these forums, but alot I find to just put too much faith into their paranormal beliefs... they don't put faith into what science can explain, but instead focus on what science CAN'T explain... now, I ask, why? Why do some of you not take science into consideration? Why is it that, whenever I propose a scientific explanation, my post goes ignored?

Another example is somebody who claims to be "possessed", or know a person that is supposedly "possessed". People won't rule out the possibility of a neurological or psychological condition -- instead, they rule out the idea that it's merely a "demon" taking over the victim's body. Sure, yes, it's up to them to decide what they believe... but, in the real world, it's crucial to take into account some of science's explanations.

[NoahJaymes]

Good post and I agree whole-heartedly...I wont say what I think, but you can rest assure I am one of the logical thinkers.

[Celumnaz]

it's quantum entanglement

[Belial]

Totally agree bud, but science does make mistakes too.

You put forward a good reason to the none existance of say 'animal ghosts' not human, but i have my reasons.

[Alienated Being]

Totally agree bud, but science does make mistakes too.

You put forward a good reason to the none existance of say 'animal ghosts' not human, but i have my reasons.

Yes, we all have reasons for our beliefs - however, it is ALWAYS very good to put SCIENCE into the analysis of the situation(s) at hand. Don't just give up if you can't explain the situation(s) at first -- give up once you've done research and put critical thinking into action.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Alienated Being

[Lycos]

Over the past few days that I've been more active around this site, I've noticed something here in this particular forum. In different threads, where people have described "paranormal" experiences, people automatically jump to the conclusion that it's either a "demonic" or "spiritual" entity. What I've noticed is that alot of the people here really don't put forward rational thinking, thinking which does not include science.

For example; somebody is feeling as if they're being watched, and they make a thread about it. This person is really convinced that it is a spirit, and does not think of any logical explanation as to what it may be. Or maybe he does, but he still, for some weird reason, thinks it's a ghost even when it's the least likely case. Individuals will come into a thread, and say something along the lines of "Perhaps it's a demon, or it's a ghost. One or the other."

There are some really logical thinkers on these forums, but alot I find to just put too much faith into their paranormal beliefs... they don't put faith into what science can explain, but instead focus on what science CAN'T explain... now, I ask, why? Why do some of you not take science into consideration? Why is it that, whenever I propose a scientific explanation, my post goes ignored?

Another example is somebody who claims to be "possessed", or know a person that is supposedly "possessed". People won't rule out the possibility of a neurological or psychological condition -- instead, they rule out the idea that it's merely a "demon" taking over the victim's body. Sure, yes, it's up to them to decide what they believe... but, in the real world, it's crucial to take into account some of science's explanations.

I agree a bit with what you said but you most be careful when you are talking about others belief's. It is like walking on a broken down log to get to the other side of the river. That log can break at anytime. Now a lot of the people on the board to take into account the scientific reasonings and the spiritual reasonings. Most of the time it is up to the person to decide but there is nothing wrong with someone telling someone it COULD be this...and then another person can be like "Meh I don't think so, I think it's this and this is why." it is up the the reader or in a sense the "consumer" to ultimately decide what to believe. Because in total honest, out of everything we know...we really don't know much at all lol. Close your eyes for 30 seconds....that's what you know. So in saying that the parties of science and spirituality should not EVER clash, instead they should compliment one another.

[GeneBrowne]

Over the past few days that I've been more active around this site, I've noticed something here in this particular forum. In different threads, where people have described "paranormal" experiences, people automatically jump to the conclusion that it's either a "demonic" or "spiritual" entity. What I've noticed is that alot of the people here really don't put forward rational thinking, thinking which does not include science.

For example; somebody is feeling as if they're being watched, and they make a thread about it. This person is really convinced that it is a spirit, and does not think of any logical explanation as to what it may be. Or maybe he does, but he still, for some weird reason, thinks it's a ghost even when it's the least likely case. Individuals will come into a thread, and say something along the lines of "Perhaps it's a demon, or it's a ghost. One or the other."

There are some really logical thinkers on these forums, but alot I find to just put too much faith into their paranormal beliefs... they don't put faith into what science can explain, but instead focus on what science CAN'T explain... now, I ask, why? Why do some of you not take science into consideration? Why is it that, whenever I propose a scientific explanation, my post goes ignored?

Another example is somebody who claims to be "possessed", or know a person that is supposedly "possessed". People won't rule out the possibility of a neurological or psychological condition -- instead, they rule out the idea that it's merely a "demon" taking over the victim's body. Sure, yes, it's up to them to decide what they believe... but, in the real world, it's crucial to take into account some of science's explanations.

Different age groups.

A lot of people around here don't understand the science a lot of us are talking about. They don't anything else but it being a ghost or demon ... and thats why they jump the gun. I'm sure the people who do understand the science think about things rationally. It's just the age groups here .... nothing we can do about it ... as they grow and mature they understand more.

[Alienated Being]

What I am trying to put across is the fact that, a lot of the time, users don't put much effort into the "scientific analysis" aspect of the situations at hand. They focus on the spiritual aspects moreso than science, which is really illogical. I honestly, and truly (believe it or not), believe that GHOSTS do exist, but not to the extent that they can have power over your body. Apparitions, spiritual entities, etc -- I believe in all of that. I just try to put alot of scientific thought into my analysis.

[Belial]

Please explain the 'science' to why some people think they are say, 'possessed' or even have a ghost in there midst?

i too believe in some sort of entity but what it actually is i will have to wait a little longer.

Edited November 2, 2007 by belial

[Alienated Being]

Different age groups.

A lot of people around here don't understand the science a lot of us are talking about. They don't anything else but it being a ghost or demon ... and thats why they jump the gun. I'm sure the people who do understand the science think about things rationally. It's just the age groups here .... nothing we can do about it ... as they grow and mature they understand more.

Even if they don't understand the science we're talking about, that shouldn't stop them from wanting to look at things from a scientific perspective. Their lack of knowledge gives them room to gain knowledge. I've even given my theories, and explained them... and my posts went ignored -- it was not QUOTED once throughout the remainder of the thread, nobody put a response to it, etc.

Please explain the 'science' to why some people think they are say, 'possessed' or even have a ghost in there midst?

Are you referring to the science BEHIND It, or...? I am not getting the question entirely.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Alienated Being

[SS79]

I can totally understand where your coming from . i've also posted links that point to a scintific explanation of something and its as if they never bothered to read it i think they take one look and if it doesnt fit with their beliefs they just move on, and we carry on banging our heads against a brick wall .

I dont know why they do this . maybe its an ego thing i dont know. In the experiences i have had which I at first thought could be paranormal i'd say 95% have turned out to have a rational explanation but you have to want to aknowledge this . The other five percent are still a mystery to me

That being said science doesnt have all the answers either so we have to go on what we think is happening and weigh everything up . but we have to use logic and look for rational explanations before coming to any conclusion

Blessings SS79 x x x x

Ps Enjay dont be quiet spit it out

Edited November 2, 2007 by spiritual_soul79

[Lycos]

I dont know why they do this . maybe its an ego thing i dont know. In the experiences i have had which I at first thought could be paranormal i'd say 95% have turned out to have a rational explanation but you have to want to aknowledge this . The other five percent are still a mystery to me

Ah well time to play the devil's advocate. Without those 5% who are in "mystery" would we need science? ;P

[Belial]

I refer to the science that explains away the notion of ghost actually being there, and nothing more than a mental image.

p.s. i agree with your points, i just want others to see it from this side of the fence is all.

[She-ra]

Over the past few days that I've been more active around this site, I've noticed something here in this particular forum. In different threads, where people have described "paranormal" experiences, people automatically jump to the conclusion that it's either a "demonic" or "spiritual" entity. What I've noticed is that alot of the people here really don't put forward rational thinking, thinking which does not include science.

Yes, true. I've seen "jumping" from both sides of the fence!!

For example; somebody is feeling as if they're being watched, and they make a thread about it. This person is really convinced that it is a spirit, and does not think of any logical explanation as to what it may be. Or maybe he does, but he still, for some weird reason, thinks it's a ghost even when it's the least likely case. Individuals will come into a thread, and say something along the lines of "Perhaps it's a demon, or it's a ghost. One or the other."

I guess people come here for advice. I typically suggest ruling out any physical concerns first. People have the rght to post what they want and receive feedback. If the OP is convnced that it's "such and such" then it's their problem not mine... especially if I've offered other advice or suggestions.

There are some really logical thinkers on these forums, but alot I find to just put too much faith into their paranormal beliefs... they don't put faith into what science can explain, but instead focus on what science CAN'T explain... now, I ask, why? Why do some of you not take science into consideration? Why is it that, whenever I propose a scientific explanation, my post goes ignored?

Judge not least ye be judged. Logical thinkers CAN have paranormal experiences. I'm sorry if you feel your posts have been ignored (happened to me before too )

Another example is somebody who claims to be "possessed", or know a person that is supposedly "possessed". People won't rule out the possibility of a neurological or psychological condition -- instead, they rule out the idea that it's merely a "demon" taking over the victim's body. Sure, yes, it's up to them to decide what they believe... but, in the real world, it's crucial to take into account some of science's explanations.

Just not true. I am a firm believer in suggesting the medical route FIRST and foremost.

I'm not sure who you are aiming this at here on UM but it isn't nice to "lump" an entire group of people into one category. I would suggest a PM to that person and ask privately versus posting on a general thread. Please understand I am beng genuine here and I am just offering a suggestion.

Take care Jody

[Alienated Being]

I refer to the science that explains away the notion of ghost actually being there, and nothing more than a mental image.

p.s. i agree with your points, i just want others to see it from this side of the fence is all.

Well, an onset of epilepsy could account for seizures experienced during the "possession". A state of psychosis could be taken into account for the psychological aspect of the "possession", being taken away from reality whilst experiencing delusional behaviour and hallucinations... foreign languages? That could be on a subconscious level - the individual could have heard somebody speaking in a foreign language before, and is just blurting out random words.. or simply illegible words.

[Belial]

WHAT................ Don't look at me - no - don't look at me, whistles while walking off into a darkened corner.

[Neognosis]

There are some really logical thinkers on these forums, but alot I find to just put too much faith into their paranormal beliefs... they don't put faith into what science can explain, but instead focus on what science CAN'T explain... now, I ask, why? Why do some of you not take science into consideration? Why is it that, whenever I propose a scientific explanation, my post goes ignored?

Because, aside from a few of us, it seems that a lot of members of this forum are, in my respectfull opinion:

delusional

having fun using their imaginations

Playing along as a break from their normal lives

mentally ill

Overall, I think that this forum also attracts a group that really wants to believe in the paranormal and superanatural for whatever reason. We know that we're not going to get a large number of rational and logical responses in a forum entitled Ghosts, Hauntings & The Paranormal, none of which exist.

I hope I've been able to speak frankly and not offend.

[NoahJaymes]

Believers believe....and it will never change. People often experience what they think is an entity of some sort so they base their knowledge off of their experiences. I think a lot of what goes on, not only on this site, but in the overall population is hollywoods influence. Everyone has seen the exorcist, everyone has seen poltergeist parts 1-67, White noise, pulse etc...

The thing is, nobody knows what the hell is going on in the supernatural world, we all just either assume or think.

One thing I dislike with a passion is assumption. There is no room for assumption in this field, NONE. It doesn't matter if you have experienced it, stood face to face with the devil, partied with Jim Morrison last night or got to third base with Marilyn Monroe, you can not say anything pertaining FACTS in our field...That means, statements are NOT GOOD. I have seen that a lot lately, people making statements which makes their thoughts to be factual.

I'd rather people say "In theory" than words like "All, Yes, Always, Evil"

To be honest, yes this is a forum for advice, but when a person asks a question lets try to get to the bottom of that question first and when we are all said in done with the logical end of things, then lets decide the route of what it could or couldn't be.

[Belial]

Sorry this cannot be seen as a forum for advise, just objectionable debates with a smuttering of logic and confused comment, ERGO debate forums.

God i love this place...

p.s. i do not believe in any god i used that word as a means of communication tis all.

[She-ra]

Sorry this cannot be seen as a forum for advise, just objectionable debates with a smuttering of logic and confused comment, ERGO debate forums.

God i love this place...

p.s. i do not believe in any god i used that word as a means of communication tis all.

I love ya B

[Lycos]

Believers believe....and it will never change. People often experience what they think is an entity of some sort so they base their knowledge off of their experiences. I think a lot of what goes on, not only on this site, but in the overall population is hollywoods influence. Everyone has seen the exorcist, everyone has seen poltergeist parts 1-67, White noise, pulse etc...

The thing is, nobody knows what the hell is going on in the supernatural world, we all just either assume or think.

One thing I dislike with a passion is assumption. There is no room for assumption in this field, NONE. It doesn't matter if you have experienced it, stood face to face with the devil, partied with Jim Morrison last night or got to third base with Marilyn Monroe, you can not say anything pertaining FACTS in our field...That means, statements are NOT GOOD. I have seen that a lot lately, people making statements which makes their thoughts to be factual.

I'd rather people say "In theory" than words like "All, Yes, Always, Evil"

To be honest, yes this is a forum for advice, but when a person asks a question lets try to get to the bottom of that question first and when we are all said in done with the logical end of things, then lets decide the route of what it could or couldn't be.

Good post and very true. Only thing I'm in difference with is I don't see anything wrong with giving someone a logical answer and someone else giving a paranormal answer at the same time. Since nothing is fact (unless something really was fact lol) it should be up to the reader to decide what to believe or take in. Think of it like you are doing a research paper for college, you have to go through a lot of sources and you have to decide what is reliable and what is not on your OWN.

[Mabon]

LOL!

Here is my two cents, for what it's worth.

People can't be lumped into categories easily as some would think. I do get irked of the arrogant positions of both self appointed skeptics (if you are truly a skeptic you don't need to post it every single post, what you write will prove it) or (the term that I dislike more strongly) believers. It's not the terms so much as the snide allegations that the people who bandy the terms around imply when they use them. To be a skeptic or a believer and guess what there is a third position (that no one has given a clever name yet) someone who is or had experiences they can't explain and are looking for answers. The answers one would hope would be logical but sometimes in life when you reduce it all down what you're left with no matter how improbable is the answer. (Thank you Conan Doyle) The terms in and of themselves carry no good or ill. A skeptic is not guaranteed to be more intelligent than someone who believes they've had an experience or believes in something nor should believers be seen a gullible.

OK that aside another thing that should be considered when viewing posts is the "I want to be special" posters. (these maybe in direct proportion the the other type of I want to be special posters. Nothings real because I've never experienced it posters) Those who claim experiences, abilities, whatever yet will provide no evidence, or answers to direct questions. The claims that they make if invalidated will be their undoing and they will no longer be in the "I had a experience and you can't top it club." LOL! For me they don't want advice/help, they don't want their 'evidence' (when and IF they ever produce any)evaluated it must remain unquestioned, for if questioning it or them provides alternate answers (even those may still not be right! I'm trying to be fair here) then their 'status' as supernatural super stars is busted.

Then you have posters who post a picture and people will tear it and them apart without giving a reason, I don't care for the quick look at a photo and "It's fake!" unsupported either. Should people take those type of posters word for it just because they've posted it? I don't think so.. LOL!

I agree that when a logical answer is presented it should be considered, this does not imply that it should automatically accepted. However if it seems to be the best/most likely answer from my own point of view, it might be the best place to start from.

Regards,

Mabon.

[NoahJaymes]

Yea but say you are new to this whole thing, never even knew any terminology, blah blah...You ask a serious question that can be explained by logical means, and you are a very logical thinker so you just want to get peoples opinions...you state "I was laying in bed, I rolled over looked at the alarm clock, it was 3am and when I glanced up I seen what appeared to be a shadow.

Well, a shadow can be a number of things really....im not going to insult anyones intelligence there...you have multiple people explaining their ideas...then you get

All black mass is negative energy..(not trying to bring old things up, but this is the best thing i can think of, not trying to offend)

So being a logical thinker and someone throwing that out there, you start to think well hmm...AND to mind you, this is not known to be true, if at all any of this is true...however it is just not the OP's problem, others come to the threads maybe experiencing similar problems who may not be a logical thinker, who may be acceptable to hollywood, to popular belief and so on...they see that and start to assume....

If you are going to say all black mass is negative energy, at least back it up, just not with personal experience, but links, websites, something to show a smidgen of what you say could infact be somewhat true in a sense....

I respect everyones opinions, although may not seem like it, but sometimes people grasp on too much, and whenever someone disagrees with them, that is when the heated debate begins and we go off topic.

[GeneBrowne]

Because, aside from a few of us, it seems that a lot of members of this forum are, in my respectfull opinion:

delusional

having fun using their imaginations

Playing along as a break from their normal lives

mentally ill

That might be a tad bit insulting for people who have very good resons for their beliefs. It's true for the most part ... but there are some people who have had actual experiences and do actually believe.

Not saying anything about it ... but it kind of comes off as a bit insulting. Most people are liers, but there are some that want attention ... but there are some that want to be believed. Just my thoughts.

I do agree with you ... but I think it was "aside from a few of us" that makes it seem you are better than thoes who believe, which isn't true at all.

[Belial]

Agreed, but those who truely believe in visitation, are indeed in need of help or atleast a logical explanation other than the belief they have had contact with dead people...the worlds far fuller of dead people, so why so few coming forward, every house hold would have atleast ten ghosts each.

No offence to anyone but this is purely a mental state, caused by emotions etc.

Why only some who get called upon? why only this or that family member? or why that person and not me when we both visited the same 'haunted house' ???