35 replies to this topic

[Ad hoc]

Waspie_Dwarf, on 28 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

This will require high powered radio and or laser communications. I think it highly possible that our radio "quietening" is a temporary thing.

Yeah. Although I'd read somewhere that there's a good chance advanced civilizations might use the lasers and other technologies and drop radio altogether, but I can't remember the details of what else they're supposed to use.

Waspie_Dwarf, on 28 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Assumptions are all we currently have at the moment when it comes to alien life. For example the assumption that life arises easily when the conditions are right is based on the fact that life started very quickly on Earth, appearing around a billion years after the Earth formed. Now if we assume that the Earth is typical of other planets that bodes well for life, it started on Earth almost as soon as the conditions allowed.

However, what if we use the same logic for the chances of advanced civilisations occurring? Well then things don't look so good. After it took 4.6 billion years for a civilisation to arise that could produce anything more technologically advanced than a stick. Life may be common but intelligent life may be rare.

This is an interesting thing. I actually kinda lean in the direction that intelligence developing might be the more likely bit, once you've gotten over the hurdle of life starting.
The idea being that once you have a situation of complex biological life where there is evolution, then the strategies for survival are gonna be pretty similar anywhere. So, evolution will always give rise to social creatures that work together, which leads to social intelligence- and those that are resourceful with the environment, which leads to abstract intelligence. And its just a matter of time before one species gets locked into a runaway process of: more intelligence=more resources for 'brain'=more intelligence=non specialization=forced to rely on intelligence, like we did.

It's pretty interesting how soon life started after Earth was able to support it though. Makes you wonder.

Edited by ad hoc, 28 December 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

ad hoc, on 28 December 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

This is an interesting thing. I actually kinda lean in the direction that intelligence developing might be the more likely bit, once you've gotten over the hurdle of life starting.
The idea being that once you have a situation of complex biological life where there is evolution, then the strategies for survival are gonna be pretty similar anywhere. So, evolution will always give rise to social creatures that work together, which leads to social intelligence- and those that are resourceful with the environment, which leads to abstract intelligence. And its just a matter of time before one species gets locked into a runaway process of: more intelligence=more resources for 'brain'=more intelligence=non specialization=forced to rely on intelligence, like we did.

You assume that intelligence like ours is inevitable, but I would suggest that the facts are contrary to this.

The thing is that life has had many chances to develop intelligent, technological, species, but it only happened once. No reptile, bird, fish amphibian, invertebrate did it and nor did any other family of mammals. In terms of species capable of interstellar communication the fact that only one species developed that capability in 3 billion years of evolution does not really support you premise.

If we again assume that Earth is a typical planet, then the fact that intelligent life is rare here would suggest it is rare else where.

[Ad hoc]

Waspie_Dwarf, on 28 December 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

You assume that intelligence like ours is inevitable, but I would suggest that the facts are contrary to this.

The thing is that life has had many chances to develop intelligent, technological, species, but it only happened once. No reptile, bird, fish amphibian, invertebrate did it and nor did any other family of mammals. In terms of species capable of interstellar communication the fact that only one species developed that capability in 3 billion years of evolution does not really support you premise.

If we again assume that Earth is a typical planet, then the fact that intelligent life is rare here would suggest it is rare else where.

That's just silly. Evolution is a slow progression from simple to complex life. Intelligence can only occur after a certain point- in our case, it only got to the complex animal stage 500 million years ago, so there's no point in talking about it not happening in billions of years, because life was busy evolving towards complex life.
So what I'm simply saying is: once you reach the almost inevitable stage of having socially intelligent creatures, which already partially rely on their intelligence (which we have quite a few examples of on earth) then it's quite a reasonable idea that it's only a matter of time before one of them gets locked into relying on their intelligence as their main strength.

yes, it's only happened once in 500 million years since the high-intelligence jump off point barely began to become possible.

And that's not actually very long.
-
And I'd like to add to that- there are examples of animals that have various mental faculties that we do as humans. In some cases, actually better. It's all there, it all evolves naturally. Just takes one species to come along and put a few of these strengths together and they get funneled into the survival niche of intelligence.

Edited by ad hoc, 28 December 2012 - 11:21 PM.

[bison]

The Voyager space probes, now at or near the edge of the solar system, have radio transmitters of about 23 watts. This is a very modest level of power. They still manage to hear from them because their positions are well known, and very high gain, very narrow beam antennas can be aimed at them. They also know just when to listen, as Voyager is prompted to transmit, when they wish to hear from it.
If we wanted to hear similar space communications signals from another solar system, we would very probably be out of luck, given our current technology.

[Andromedan Starseed 333]

there's life in almost any planet just because we cant see it don't mean it dont exist!!!it could be advanced life,primitive life and etc its still life.i find it really hard that planet earth is the only planet with life or luck enough ti have life.one has to be really ignorant or dumb to believe otherwise.that is cool though.the universe has no limits and size.

[Finity]

I bet if you wrote a program to randomly generate just a few million stars and planets (not many considering the size of the average galaxy) based on what we already know, you would get a few quite similar to Earth.  Up the number to a few billion and I bet you find some that look like complete clones.  With numbers that high, averages don't lie

Edited by Finity, 01 January 2013 - 01:25 AM.