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What is the cure for almost constant anguish?

depression animal abuse

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#76    redhen

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:59 AM

View PostHabitat, on 10 October 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

No need for "peer reviews" this is not a science paper, refer again to post #63, I can't put it any clearer than that.

Yes, your beliefs are based on your own experiences, gotcha.

"This is really indicative of a misanthropic streak, where people who perceive they have been wronged by the world of people, can readily identify with animal victims of human wrong-doing, but human victims can't be similarly empathised with, because they are, after all, of the very species that perpetrates these injustices. A feat of mental gymnastics no doubt, but not a rare one by any means, in my experience."

I think the mental gymnastics here is isolating homo sapiens. Humans are of course part of the animal kingdom, we did not come from Mars. We are just as much a part of nature as any other species on earth.  How can a person advocate for animal welfare and leave out hominids? You're right, it is a form of self-delusion. Sorry if I came across too pedantic.


#77    ouija ouija

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostHabitat, on 08 October 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

I 'm sorry to hear of anyone in an anguished state, but I must play devil's advocate a wee bit here. I have met many people who genuinely fretted over the perceived mistreatment of animals, and I agree wholeheartedly that it is a worthy cause to advocate animal rights. However, what has dismayed me, is an all too common coldness or indifference in these same people, to suffering inflicted on humans. This is really indicative of a misanthropic streak, where people who perceive they have been wronged by the world of people, can readily identify with animal victims of human wrong-doing, but human victims can't be similarly empathised with, because they are, after all, of the very species that perpetrates these injustices. A feat of mental gymnastics no doubt, but not a rare one by any means, in my experience.
'many' 'all too common' ...... I can't relate to this at all. I know of only one person who gives this impression(delights in it in fact!), BUT, in his actual day-to-day dealings with people he is kind and understanding and patient. Perhaps the old man you mentioned in a later post, was like that? Perhaps he even thought that what he was saying was a joke, albeit one in very poor taste.
I would almost say that my own experience is the opposite: people that I've met who've felt 'wronged' by fellow humans, are usually keen to put things right when they come across someone suffering in the same way that they did.

View PostHabitat, on 09 October 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

I have heard this kind of rationalization before, the real bottom line is you have to perceive yourself as a deeply wronged, and especially isolated victim of human malice to "side" with animals that are persecuted, but not people. Or do you not consider yourself such a victim ? We can probably infer Hitler was such a person, cruelly indifferent to humans, but lovingly devoted to his German Shepherd dogs. I can even recall people half-excusing Hitler because he was an animal lover ! No surprise to hear they were animal liberationists. This is primarily a psychological phenomenon, and has more to do with the inner world of those so-afflicted, than external realities. I have never heard an animal cruelty fanatic express concern over the seeming cruelties of the natural world, which have never ceased for hundreds of millions of years, the difference being that humans are not directly responsible. I see animal cruelty campaigners as being as much anti-people as pro-animals in very many cases. Unless your heart extends as much to human "victims" as it does to animal ones, you are picking winners, in the same way "cute" fauna gets people motivated to protect, but "ugly" fauna can take their chances. Pandas are cuter than the average human, seemingly.
No, I don't identify with the 'victim' you describe, in fact I mentioned further back in this thread that I also feel concern for humans(and even plants!), that are not in a position to speak up for themselves.
You say you 'see animal cruelty campaigners as being as much anti-people as pro-animals in very many cases': if you are seeing them in 'campaigning mode', then of course the impression will be that they are anti-humans, because they are ...... anti-the-humans-who-are-cruel-to animals! Who knows what they are like in other areas of their lives? The other thing to bear in mind is that very active animal campaigners/liberationists tend to be young and idealistic ....... they may mellow as they get older.
The 'natural world' is just that, natural and therefore it just is what it is ...... there is no 'cruelty' in the sense you infer.
Oh, and no one could ever acuse me of picking 'cute' over 'ugly', that's for sure!  

View PostHabitat, on 10 October 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

Pull your head out of wherever it's stuck, Redhen, anyone who has failed to notice that particular breed of "animal lover" who simply could not give a rat's rear end about the fate of countless human victims of whatever cruel fate befalls them, has not been paying attention. It is so common I have seen it dozens of times. Instead of trying to impress with tales of false dichotomies and poisoned wells and whatever, how about you go to work and explain this phenomenon for me, unless you insist it is a fallacy and does not exist, in which case there is no point to this discussion. Seems to me you are a bit confused, I never claimed that a concern for animal welfare was incompatible with a similar concern for beleagured humans. You just couldn't resist the temptation to have yourself sound clever talking about Wilberforce. Let me leave you with an example of a now elderly chap I know who is forever taking in stray animals, and feeding every form of birdlife around his house. So far so good, but he made a rather callous quip when there was massive loss of life and homelessness in a natural disaster in Asia....." No problem, the way they breed over there they'll have made up the numbers in a few months". Enough said.
Firstly, there is no need to be rude.
Most people can only focus on/put their energies into, one 'worthy' cause at a time(some don't bother with any!). If animals are at the top of their list, then that is where their attention is, not on humans. As mentioned before, this does not automatically mean that in their day-to-day dealings with other people they aren't helpful and caring.
You did seem to be saying that a concern for animal welfare was incompatible with a similar concern for humans. That was how I read it(#63).
You say you've seen it 'dozens' of times ...... you've met 24+ people who genuinely feel this way? 24+ people who actively don't care about the fate of humans? No humans? What sort of situations did you meet these people in? What ages were they(roughly)?

View PostHabitat, on 10 October 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

I did not infer that at all, but they are not a rarity, from my observations.
Well, you weren't very clear. You did seem to be inferring 'most' ..... you seem to be back-tracking  somewhat.

Edited by ouija ouija, 10 October 2012 - 02:26 PM.

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

#78    Habitat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:53 AM

I like animals and plants too ! Why else call myself Habitat ! :tu:   Strangely a lot of animal rights people couldn't give a fig about habitat preservation, they are focused on mean-spirited cruelty to animals by nasty human perpetrators, which is cold comfort to wild fauna that has never seen a human, but gets decimated by domestic cats gone feral, e.g  I am not accusing anyone in this discussion of being a misanthrope, but I am sure they are not hard to find in the " animal rights" scene.

Edited by Habitat, 11 October 2012 - 12:54 AM.


#79    Habitat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:04 AM

View Postredhen, on 10 October 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

Yes, your beliefs are based on your own experiences, gotcha.

"This is really indicative of a misanthropic streak, where people who perceive they have been wronged by the world of people, can readily identify with animal victims of human wrong-doing, but human victims can't be similarly empathised with, because they are, after all, of the very species that perpetrates these injustices. A feat of mental gymnastics no doubt, but not a rare one by any means, in my experience."

I think the mental gymnastics here is isolating homo sapiens. Humans are of course part of the animal kingdom, we did not come from Mars. We are just as much a part of nature as any other species on earth.  How can a person advocate for animal welfare and leave out hominids? You're right, it is a form of self-delusion. Sorry if I came across too pedantic.

And I am sorry if I came across as lambasting animal welfare people en masse. Not intended.


#80    ouija ouija

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:21 PM

View PostHabitat, on 11 October 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

Why else call myself Habitat ! :tu:  

I assumed you were a fan of, or perhaps worked for, the famous furniture store :whistle:

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

#81    Habitat

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:39 AM

View Postouija ouija, on 11 October 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I assumed you were a fan of, or perhaps worked for, the famous furniture store :whistle:
Never heard of it actually ! Funny how geography lends different associations to common words. It I'd have called myself Ikea though......


#82    Bling

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:14 PM

Ouija has this thread helped you at all? :)


#83    ouija ouija

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:25 PM

View PostBling, on 12 October 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Ouija has this thread helped you at all? :)

Absolutely!! I am following up on quite a few of the suggestions that posters made here. Just the fact that so many people responded was a help ....... I don't feel quite so disconnected as I did previously.

In fact: A BIG THANK YOU TO YOU ALL :clap:

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

#84    Bling

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:29 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 12 October 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

Absolutely!! I am following up on quite a few of the suggestions that posters made here. Just the fact that so many people responded was a help ....... I don't feel quite so disconnected as I did previously.

In fact: A BIG THANK YOU TO YOU ALL :clap:

That's brilliant! :su


#85    Spiral staircase

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:33 AM

So has anyone thought of a cure? I think maybe considering our own lives a gift and caring more about humanity in general would ease the sense of anguish and hopelessness. Unless of course one does not want a cure.

A dim view of humanity is the source of many problems including this one perhaps.


#86    ouija ouija

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

View PostChasingtherabbit, on 14 October 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

So has anyone thought of a cure? I think maybe considering our own lives a gift and caring more about humanity in general would ease the sense of anguish and hopelessness. Unless of course one does not want a cure.

A dim view of humanity is the source of many problems including this one perhaps.

At this moment in time I don't believe there is a complete cure, but speaking personally I can say I have a better understanding of it and that certainly helps.

I find it impossible to think of life as a gift, but I'll practice a bit and see what happens! To me, it's more of a curse(for everyone), with a few nice bits in it, but basically we're all just making the best of a bad situation until we can escape from it.

I can't imagine how anyone can help but have a dim view of humanity ........ unless they never see any news and keep their heads deep in the sand! Having said that, I do see a lot of good in people, a lot of heroism, even. I am constantly in awe of people who continue with their humdrum lives wearing a smile and making a joke ....... whilst putting up with all sorts of problems.

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

#87    Time Traveler

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:52 AM

View Postouija ouija, on 03 October 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Recently there have been several topics in UM that have particularly troubled me. They were about animal misuse and abuse. They immediately made me feel really down and they played on my mind. I am 60, and this abuse of animals(and humans too), seems neverending ..... it seems to have been around forever. The sheer number of miserable, pain-filled lives around the world, overwhelms me. It seems that even when some horror lessens or even stops altogether, a new one appears somewhere else. Sometimes it feels as if there will never be an end to the new horrors and tortures that humans can think up and then inflict upon the weak. It makes me feel as if I don't belong here and that the only time I will have relief is when I am dead.

So what I am asking for help with is this: how do I learn to cope, on a daily basis, with this excruciating anguish that, on occasion, makes me feel almost suicidal?

Bless you ouija ouija!  I have felt the same way.  Although mankind has evolved in civilization and culture, it seems his basic instincts have remained barbaric and unchanged since the beginning.  But then in the 1960s a generation of 'baby boomers' (tired of the establishment and injustices) decided to step up and do something about it.  With this came the civil rights movement and a fight for equality for women and minorities.  Some started animal rescue and fought against animal cruelty.  And the new generations are continuing to work for fairness and justice.  

I'm not saying everyone of course - (my personal opinion is that the bad still outnumber the good by way too many) - but there is a small percentage of the population worldwide that are really great people and working to change things for the better.  If I may recommend a book, I would recommend reading "The Three Waves of Volunteers and The New Earth" by Dolores Cannon.  I got mine at Amazon.com  It's something you may like.


#88    ouija ouija

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

View PostTime Traveler, on 17 October 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

Bless you ouija ouija!  I have felt the same way.  Although mankind has evolved in civilization and culture, it seems his basic instincts have remained barbaric and unchanged since the beginning.  But then in the 1960s a generation of 'baby boomers' (tired of the establishment and injustices) decided to step up and do something about it.  With this came the civil rights movement and a fight for equality for women and minorities.  Some started animal rescue and fought against animal cruelty.  And the new generations are continuing to work for fairness and justice.  

I'm not saying everyone of course - (my personal opinion is that the bad still outnumber the good by way too many) - but there is a small percentage of the population worldwide that are really great people and working to change things for the better.  If I may recommend a book, I would recommend reading "The Three Waves of Volunteers and The New Earth" by Dolores Cannon.  I got mine at Amazon.com  It's something you may like.
Thank you for responding. The hippy love/peace movement started when I was in my teens and I really identified with it's ideals ...... I thought a whole generation did, but so many quickly forgot. That's a source of sadness and puzzlement to me still.
Thank you also for the book suggestion ....... yes, I'll have a look on Amazon for it.

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

#89    starchild1976

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

Knowing the world is full of other tree huggers like you is a start toward happiness. I promise you there are plenty of us around.


#90    himalyanmystic

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:10 AM

Millions suffer everyday ,hunger ,starvation ,murder ,rape,human rights violations,injustice,cruelty has been there and if we go through history the past times were somewhat even worse.At the same time there are people who give hope ,who try to make a difference ,others who fight these things,We have a choice i guess to do something about it or to just get depressed.When we look at the world i think we must try to see both aspects . especially after seeing or knowing about something disturbing its also important to see the joy of the world we have a life to live here i guess if we are not able to feel joy and happiness for the good things that are around us ,as well as at times profound grief that arises out of concern that arises seeing the plight of other beings we would not be able to have a complete experience of life.I hope if u are able to be depressed by things u must be really sensitive and emotional .i hope u also smile a lot and laugh a lot ,make the most of life.................................peace``````````

[HIMALAYANMYSTIC




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