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Will We Ever Understand Consciousness?

consciousness awareness brain

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#31    StarMountainKid

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

third_eye said:

If "everything works together as one system" does it means it is all separate in the system ? If so where is the separation ?

If it is "the mind analyzing itself by using thought" then is the mind thoughts or are the thoughts mind ?

How does a mirror succeeds in achieving "trying to reflect itself" much less "reflecting itself" ?

When I wrote, "Everything works together as one system", I mean mind can manifest itself in different ways. Thoughts, ideas, imagination (it can create pictures in consciousness), emotions, memories, physical action...stuff like that. But all this is still one mind that is doing this. We only have one mind, but it is very versatile.

Secondly, I would say mind is thoughts and thoughts are mind. Mind expresses thoughts as internal words, but thought begins in the mind pre-linguistically. We can consciously experience these pre-linguistic thoughts, as well. This is similar to physical actions we perform without having to think about them beforehand. We can have an idea come to mind that is not in linguistic form.

Thirdly, lol. I think I was thinking about another thread about mirrors. I'm spreading myself too thin with all these threads I'm trying to think about! What I was trying to say was, when the mind tries to analyze itself it goes 'round and 'round. It can be productive for the mind to try to watch itself and try to figure itself out, but in the end it sort of is like a mirror trying to reflect itself. The totality of mind can only be "experienced" when it is left alone to do what it does.

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#32    third_eye

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:03 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 04 June 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:


~snip

Secondly, I would say mind is thoughts and thoughts are mind.

~snip


Just one thing ... this is contradictory .... in more ways than one  :yes:


~

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

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#33    StarMountainKid

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:19 AM

starmountainkid said:

Secondly, I would say mind is thoughts and thoughts are mind.

third_eye said:

ust one thing ... this is contradictory .... in more ways than one  :yes:

:) Why is this contradictory? What is mind but all the ways it expresses itself?

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#34    third_eye

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:34 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 05 June 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

:) Why is this contradictory? What is mind but all the ways it expresses itself?

"I would say mind is thoughts and thoughts are mind."

is not the same though in words it sounds the same ... give it some thought ... it would be better for you ... seriously ... better than I pointing to you ...
you are on to something ... independent of paths ... it is a very good thing ....

the zen equivalent would be ... the flag fluttering in the wind ... is it the flag that "move" or is it "you" that is the "move" ?

~

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#35    sutemi

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:01 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 04 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Is consciousness our awareness, or does our awareness reside within consciousness? In the same sense,  do thought occurs within consiousness, as well as recalled memories, emotions, knowledge and physical states (the sense of touch, pain)? Or are these things consciousness itself?

If we would be unaware of our sensory perceptions, thoughts, emotions, etc., would our consciousness still exist?

I think sometimes it is better to question than to state theories, beliefs and opinions. Someone once asked the question, what is the mind between two thoughts? If our minds were to become totally silent and empty, would we begin to gain some understanding of what fundamental consciousness is for ourselves?
Hi SMK, Your right when the mind becomes silent/empty then we can experience beyond the veil /illusion mind creates and then the mind becomes a mirrror so we can experience our true selves. for those who havent seen this short film it says so much about what we could achieve and experience in the stillness of mind through the art of meditation.

"If the doors of perception where cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite". William Blake


#36    Dakotabre

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:32 AM

I doubt we could ever do this 'humanly'. A couple of scientists at different times, were successfully able to transplanted the head of a monkey onto the body of another monkey. In both cases the monkey could not move it's limbs, but did live for a couple of days and could drink water from a straw.. 'IF' we could do this to a human... then we could ask the human (after transplanting the head) if they were still 'themselves', Did they still have their memories? Did they know who they were? etc... I think this would be a pretty cool experiment.


#37    spud the mackem

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:58 AM

Just curious, how long are you concious and aware, after you stop breathing,and where does your brain electricity go.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#38    danielost

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:53 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 07 June 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Just curious, how long are you concious and aware, after you stop breathing,and where does your brain electricity go.

The brain controls the body. It does not house the concionsec.

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#39    spud the mackem

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:27 PM

View Postdanielost, on 07 June 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

The brain controls the body. It does not house the concionsec.
  So...where do you keep your consciousness ?...maybe in Your big toe !

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#40    Frank Merton

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Your consciousness is not a thing, but a self-perpetuating process, like the flame of a candle or a wave on the water or an electromagnetic wave.  We presume but really don't understand how this is generated by brain activity.


#41    spud the mackem

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 08 June 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Your consciousness is not a thing, but a self-perpetuating process, like the flame of a candle or a wave on the water or an electromagnetic wave.  We presume but really don't understand how this is generated by brain activity.
  Yep we know that Frank,but it seems that some people think its a little "thingy" which is kept somewhere.

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(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#42    Frank Merton

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:52 PM

If its a thingy somewhere, is it conscious, and where is its consciousness kept?


#43    markdohle

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:01 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 08 June 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Yep we know that Frank,but it seems that some people think its a little "thingy" which is kept somewhere.

I keep mine in a match box, in my top drawer, that way I fell better, it being safe and snug.

Edited by markdohle, 08 June 2013 - 04:01 PM.


#44    StarMountainKid

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:18 PM

From the above several posts I'm getting the idea that consciousness is sort of like a pet. It's "my" consciousness, and I have to take care of it. Keep it from thinking bad thoughts, reward it when it comes up with something nice, keep it comfortable so it's pleasant to live with.

In a sense this is true. Maybe we love and stroke our opinions and beliefs because they're good companions and they love us in return.

When my consciousness behaves badly it makes me feel bad. Sometimes I punish it for misbehaving, sometimes I try to sooth it back into a healthy balance so it can please me in its happy playfulness.

Thanks, guys, for the idea.

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#45    Frank Merton

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 05:17 PM

Hmmm, not a bad idea.  We understand from quantum mechanics that waves (processes) have particle-nature.

When we watch our stream of consciousness, as it is called, we can see that it is pushed this way and that by all sorts of things, including our wills and our ethical standards, and that what happens to it changes it all the time, both for the good and for the bad.  This is one way to look at karma -- merit comes from things that improve it and negative karma from things that harm it.

The point is to be mindful of it -- to pay attention to where it is going and what it tends to want to do.






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