192 replies to this topic

[Jackofalltrades]

skyeagle409

With all due respect, this is my last reply, I will no longer be discussing this topic or any other 9/11 topic with You, Due to it getting very tiresome and a little bit repetitive...
Especially the way You have twisted/distorted/manipulated my response/s to You, to suit Your own way of thinking/agenda... (whichever the case may be)

When asking a question, I do exactly that, ask a question and not try to indicate, insist, insinuate anything, and it is getting very tiresome You trying to make out I did, in the various post's we have conversed across...
Anywho, maybe we will converse on a different topic in the future and agree on something

skyeagle409, on 27 October 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

Let's take your video and  compare the noise in your video with the collapse of WTC7.

Why show a video that has been edited ?
Why not show the video in it's original form, and as it was posted to You by Q ?



If You are going to compare the noise You have to take the following into account...

Difference in distance from the camera to the building's in the demolition video I provided, and the distance from the camera to the WTC building 7...

In the WTC building 7 video, it should be evident (even to You) that there is a lot more background noise due to all the chaos of the day of 9/11, While in the demolition video it is relatively quiet...

So IF there is an explosion in the WTC7 video it will quite obviously be more quieter than the demo video, due to the background noise, which would dampen the sound.... (in my opinion)

[skyeagle409]

Jackofalltrades, on 27 October 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

skyeagle409

With all due respect, this is my last reply, I will no longer be discussing this topic or any other 9/11 topic with You, Due to it getting very tiresome and a little bit repetitive...
Especially the way You have twisted/distorted/manipulated my response/s to You, to suit Your own way of thinking/agenda... (whichever the case may be)

Well, when you don't  get the message the first time around is usually why I repost it again.

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Why show a video that has been edited ?
Why not show the video in it's original form, and as it was posted to You by Q ?

I still didn't hear the sound of a bomb explosion in the video you and Q posted. Please point out at which time  line on the video that explosions can be heard.

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If You are going to compare the noise You have to take the following into account...

Difference in distance from the camera to the building's in the demolition video I provided, and the distance from the camera to the WTC building 7...

Bomb explosions would have been heard all over Manhattan.

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In the WTC building 7 video, it should be evident (even to You) that there is a lot more background noise due to all the chaos of the day of 9/11, While in the demolition video it is relatively quiet...So IF there is an explosion in the WTC7 video it will quite obviously be more quieter than the demo video, due to the background noise, which would dampen the sound.... (in my opinion)

Bomb explosions are not quiet by any means, and  I can personally confirm that when my living quarters in Vietnam felt the effects of B-52 strikes from over 30 miles away. When 9/11 Truthers say that explosives were used, I simply say, show me the evidence, and what do they do? They say that people heard explosion, and that is suppose to be their evidence. I can post all kinds of stories where people reported hearing explosions which later were attributed to something else other than from explosives.

Once again, no one saw, nor heard, nor found any evidence in the rubble that explosives were used

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    Electrical Fire Hurts 6 at Trade Center

Published: July 24, 1992
An air-conditioning transformer five stories below the World Trade Center caught fire after an explosion last night, the authorities said. Six people were injured, none of them seriously, but the 110-story twin towers did not have to be evacuated, the authorities said.  

http://www.nytimes.c...ade-center.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manhole Explosions

February 26, 1993. It started like most other days. A 4 A.M. wake up, coffee and a buttered roll while driving to work at the Manhattan Central Office. At 12:18 P.M., lunch was being served when we received a call via a street alarm box at the corner of West & Liberty Streets. At the same time Engine Company 10, whose quarters are across the street from the World Trade Center, called us via radio and reported a possible transformer vault explosion on West Street near the Trade Center.

Transformer vault (also called manhole) explosions are fairly common place in Manhattan, especially during wet weather. They're highly visible and normally generate numerous telephone calls to the Central Office. We didn't think this one was going to be any different. When Engine 10 advised us by radio they had a working fire in the Trade Center, we thought the transformer vault was located within the basement of the complex. Not a routine event, but still,it's only a transformer vault we thought.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“When we got to about 50 ft from the South Tower, we heard the most eerie sound that you would ever hear. A high-pitched noise and a popping noise made everyone stop. We all looked up. At the point, it all let go. The way I see it, it had to be the rivets. The building let go, there was an explosion and the whole top leaned toward us and started coming down.

http://september11.c...trical_supplys/

Now, where have you heard a similar high pitch noise and then, the sound of what could have been perceived as explosions? Could have been from this video?



And of course, we have this video.

Edited by skyeagle409, 27 October 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 27 October 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Well, when you don't  get the message the first time around is usually why I repost it again.



I still didn't hear the sound of a bomb explosion in the video you and Q posted. Please point out at which time  line on the video that explosions can be heard.



Bomb explosions would have been heard all over Manhattan.



Bomb explosions are not quiet by any means, and  I can personally confirm that when my living quarters in Vietnam felt the effects of B-52 strikes from over 30 miles away. When 9/11 Truthers say that explosives were used, I simply say, show me the evidence, and what do they do? They say that people heard explosion, and that is suppose to be their evidence. I can post all kinds of stories where people reported hearing explosions which later were attributed to something else other than from explosives.

Once again, no one saw, nor heard, nor found any evidence in the rubble that explosives were used



Now, where have you heard a similar high pitch noise and then, the sound of what could have been perceived as explosions? Could have been from this video?



And of course, we have this video.

firemen know what an explosion sounds like............and FYI..Manhattan isn't Vietnam...........

[skyeagle409]

TrueBeliever, on 28 October 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

firemen know what an explosion sounds like............and FYI..Manhattan isn't Vietnam...........

Just hearing a noise that sound like an explosion doesn't mean that it was a bomb. Some of the sounds that were reported as explosions were later attributed to falling elevators.

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The Elevator Man's Tale

What we heard was 6 and 7 car free-falling from the 107th floor and they impacted the basement at B-2 Level. And that's the explosion that filled the lobby within a matter of two or three seconds, engulfed the lobby in dust, smoke. And apparently from what I talked to with other mechanics, they saw the doors, the hatch doors blow off in the lobby level of 6 and 7 car.

So right after that explosion, we were ordered to leave the building.

My link

In addition:

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You could see A Tower, the outside, the columns were glowing red by that time, because that had been on fire for at least a good 25 minutes by that time. B Tower, I could see tremendous structural damage to the outside of the building. We stood on the corner across the street from the towers.

Edited by skyeagle409, 28 October 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 28 October 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Just hearing a noise that sound like an explosion doesn't mean that it was a bomb. Some of the sounds that were reported as explosions were later attributed to falling elevators.



In addition:

Some, not all......

[skyeagle409]

TrueBeliever, on 28 October 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Some, not all......

How many burning cars had fuel tanks and tires?

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 28 October 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

How many burning cars had fuel tanks and tires?

that's definitely another source for the explosions. doesn't mean there wasn't any within the wtc though. But I am more apt to believe none in the  two WTC's than none at WTC 7. I def believe we were lied to about building 7.

Of course if we would have had a thorough and legit investigation not one set up to fail....you would see less CT's and more acceptance of the official story. It wouldn't stop all CT's, some just like the mystery and intrigue. But there are those like me who only want the truth and ALL involved held accountable.

[skyeagle409]

TrueBeliever, on 28 October 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

that's definitely another source for the explosions.

Still not anything to do with bomb explosives. As I have said, just because someone says they heard an explosion doesn't mean there was an explosions and as history has shown, there are many accounts of people reporting hearing the sound of explosions and afterward, investigations attributed the sounds to something else other than to explosives..

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...doesn't mean there wasn't any within the wtc though.

Let's go over it again. There were no explosions seen nor heard on the videos, and no explosions detected on seismic monitors in the area and no evidence of explosives were found in the rubble of the WTC buildings nor on the WTC steel examined at the Fresh Kills landfill.

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But I am more apt to believe none in the  two WTC's than none at WTC 7. I def believe we were lied to about building 7.

9/11 conspiracy folks speak of explosives, but after more than 11 years, they still have yet to produce the evidence.

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Of course if we would have had a thorough and legit investigation not one set up to fail....you would see less CT's and more acceptance of the official story.

No evidence of a government conspiracy was found years ago, so what makes you think another investigation is going to uncover a government conspiracy with no evidence to warrant an new investigation?

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 28 October 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Still not anything to do with bomb explosives. As I have said, just because someone says they heard an explosion doesn't mean there was an explosions and as history has shown, there are many accounts of people reporting hearing the sound of explosions and afterward, investigations attributed the sounds to something else other than to explosives..



Let's go over it again. There were no explosions seen nor heard on the videos, and no explosions detected on seismic monitors in the area and no evidence of explosives were found in the rubble of the WTC buildings nor on the WTC steel examined at the Fresh Kills landfill.



9/11 conspiracy folks speak of explosives, but after more than 11 years, they still have yet to produce the evidence.



No evidence of a government conspiracy was found years ago, so what makes you think another investigation is going to uncover a government conspiracy with no evidence to warrant an new investigation?

who is to know really anything legit with such a sh**y investigation?! It is almost unbelievable the people who just take official stories even WITH the set up to fail factor and say "yep! they dun did a good job thar bubba! we can trust them, they wud NOT lie!" lmao...........it's the boiling frog thing again.............

Bush spoke of what a evil mastermind of 9/11 that OBL was, but when asked about him a couple years later.......oh i don't worry about him no more.and you call that a blunder? I call that a bad attitude OR a view on someone who wasn't as BIG a threat as we were told to believe.

You are definitely an apologist for all the failures of 9/11. I don't think you look at everything, at the history, the context, the ommissions, the circumstantial evidence. You want black and white in a grey world. Poor guy.

you focus on people who u think are wackos but spend NO time on those who ought to be held accountable for their failures or blunders as you call them.................it tells me exactly what kind of a person you are.

[skyeagle409]

TrueBeliever, on 28 October 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

who is to know really anything legit with such a sh**y investigation?! It is almost unbelievable the people who just take official stories even WITH the set up to fail factor and say "yep! they dun did a good job thar bubba! we can trust them, they wud NOT lie!" lmao...........it's the boiling frog thing again.............

When FDR data from American 77 was reexamined, it reconfirmed the official story and basically, I see the same result if new investigations are conducted on the 9/11 attacks because there was no way the government could have kept a 9/11 conspiracy a secret after all of these years. How quickly did the Nixon administration collapse over the Watergate scandal? And, who stepped down before Nixon over another incident? His Vice President,  Spiro Agnew. If 9/11 conspiracy folks want a new investigation, they need to show cause.

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Bush spoke of what a evil mastermind of 9/11 that OBL was, but when asked about him a couple years later.......oh i don't worry about him no more.and you call that a blunder?

Let's take another look.

Quote

Misquotations

• I don't know where he [Osama Bin Laden] is. I have no idea and I really don't care.
  
  • This misquotation is frequently attributed to a White House press conference, March 13, 2002
    
  • Correct quote should read: "And, again, I don't know where he [Osama Bin Laden] is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."
    
  • The relevant parts of the White House transcript reads:
    

THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is — really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just — he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is — as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide — if, in fact, he's hiding at all. So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

Q: But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban

The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.

You need to read the whole story, which are written on the pages within a book, and not judge a book by its cover nor make judgement calls over misquotes and comments taken out of context..

Quote

You are definitely an apologist for all the failures of 9/11. I don't think you look at everything, at the history, the context, the ommissions, the circumstantial evidence. You want black and white in a grey world. Poor guy.

I guess you overlooked where I have said that those responsible for the intelligence failures and blunders leading up to the 9/11 attacks must be held accountable.

Edited by skyeagle409, 28 October 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 28 October 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

When FDR data from American 77 was reexamined, it reconfirmed the official story and basically, I see the same result if new investigations are conducted on the 9/11 attacks because there was no way the government could have kept a 9/11 conspiracy a secret after all of these years. How quickly did the Nixon administration collapse over the Watergate scandal? And, who stepped down before Nixon over another incident? His Vice President,  Spiro Agnew. If 9/11 conspiracy folks want a new investigation, they need to show cause.







I guess you overlooked where I have said that those responsible for the intelligence failures and blunders leading up to the 9/11 attacks must be held accountable.

when you allow someone else to do your dirty work it's not so hard to 'keep a secret' and with so many thinking the 'failures' were just innocent blunders per usual...........they kinda have it easy to get away with their little 'fundraiser'.They don't really have to keep a 'secret' except for ALLOWING the attacks, which u call blunders but some see more cooperation and deliberate assistance i.e. Visa Express for saudi arabia?ignoring many FBI agents with critical intelligence.. ..and on and on..They had Al Qaeda to do their Operations Northwoods for them.........they have their New Pearl harbor and the 'fundraiser' went well, increased defense spending, EVEN AFTER trillions unaccounted for in the Pentagon..........Halliburton makes money. 'They' are doing 'Gods will" ........I think many underestimate the religious extremists right here within our own country/govt.

[skyeagle409]

TrueBeliever, on 28 October 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

when you allow someone else to do your dirty work it's not so hard to 'keep a secret' and with so many thinking the 'failures' were just innocent blunders per usual...........they kinda have it easy to get away with their little 'fundraiser'.

Who said anything about "innocent blunders?!" Not me!! Apparently, you are not on the right page, or should I say,  not even in the right book.

As an Air Force retiree and former government employee, pilot, and airframe technician with over 40 years experience, I rely on my experience to tell me what is right, and what is wrong and what I have
read from 9/11 Truthers shows they have been watching too many Hollywood action movies, and yes, my own experience tell me that some of those aviation-related movies are filled with fiction and misinformation to the point that it becomes amusing at times.

Quote

They don't really have to keep a 'secret' except for ALLOWING the attacks,...

First of all, you have to provide evidence to make such a  statement, and furthermore, without such evidence, you are just spewing worthless and empty words.

Edited by skyeagle409, 28 October 2012 - 08:00 PM.

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 28 October 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Who said anything about "innocent blunders?!" Not me!! Apparently, you are not on the right page, or should I say,  not even in the right book.

As an Air Force retiree and former government employee, pilot, and airframe technician with over 40 years of experience, I rely on my own experience to tell me what is right, and what is wrong.



First of all, you have to provide evidence to make such a  statement, and furthermore, without such evidence, you are just spewing worthless and empty words.

In theory do you think it is plausible? Did you get my point about
letting' someone else do your dirty work? I don't know but after reading through Operation Northwoods I think there have been/may still be people willing to plan/execute just such a  thing...It was conceived of once, why not again?Obviously I don't have a smoking gun. I do not find the official story tells us all that happened on 9/11 though.......

Like you though I also rely on my experiences, just because I can't share all of them doesn't mean I am crazy or whacko or making sh*** up or stupid. The world isn't black and white, it is many shades of grey.

I can see where it would be harder for a military man such as yourself to believe anything I have said. My father was a Vietnam vet, my grandfathers were WW2 vets, my son is entering military in March........I have great respect for our military. I also have great respect to our intelligence agents, who are not as blunderous as some would think, but who were obstructed and thwarted from doing their jobs....But I also know in every organization/govt/group there are people with agendas, who will do unspeakable things. It's been that way since the beginning of time unfortunately.

[skyeagle409]

TrueBeliever, on 28 October 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

In theory do you think it is plausible? Did you get my point aboutletting' someone else do your dirty work?

I look at their work and from my own experience, tell if their work is worthless or not.

I do my own work as well and I have made phone calls. A case in point was  the argument over ACARS and the 9/11 aircraft. Some of my cousins are airline captains as well as members in my two chapters who are also military, airline, and private pilots, one of whom flies missions for NASA.

I have not only discussed the ACARS argument with them, but I have made phone calls to the folks who are ACARS experts and companies who deal with ACARS, and in one call, an employee tried to set me up with an account after he found that I was a pilot.

They all indicated that the 9/11 Truthers are incorrect and as a result of my discussions with other pilots and information gathered from the ACARS phone calls, I have been waiting for the 'Pilots of 9/11 Truth' to make corrections on its website for the misinformation they have posted in regards to ACARS because the 9/11 conspiracy folks have been using disinformation and misinformation from that website as references.

Quote

...forwI don't know but after reading through Operation Northwoods I think there have been/may still be people willing to plan/execute just such a  thing...It was conceived of once, why not again?Obviously I don't have a smoking gun. I do not find the official story tells us all that happened on 9/11 though.......

First of all, the government is not capable of putting together a "Northwoods" operation on the scale of the 9/11 attacks and not get caught. As I have said before, there was no way to modify and switch aircraft in such a manner and not get caught and It would have taken me less than 30 minutes to reveal a switched or faked aircraft.

Basically speaking, you have to get out of that 'Hollywood action movie' mindset.

Quote

Like you though I also rely on my experiences, just because I can't share all of them doesn't mean I am crazy or whacko or making sh*** up or stupid. The world isn't black and white, it is many shades of grey.

I can see where it would be harder for a military man such as yourself to believe anything I have said. My father was a Vietnam vet, my grandfathers were WW2 vets, my son is entering military in March........I have great respect for our military. I also have great respect to our intelligence agents, who are not as blunderous as some would think, but who were obstructed and thwarted from doing their jobs....But I also know in every organization/govt/group there are people with agendas, who will do unspeakable things. It's been that way since the beginning of time unfortunately.

I am also a war Vet, but don't think that I have never had disagreements with the government on other issues.

Edited by skyeagle409, 28 October 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 28 October 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I look at their work and from my own experience, tell if their work is worthless or not.

I do my own work as well and I have made phone calls. A case in point was  the argument over ACARS and the 9/11 aircraft. Some of my cousins are airline captains as well as members in my two chapters who are also military, airline, and private pilots, one of whom flies missions for NASA.

I have not only discussed the ACARS argument with them, but I have made phone calls to the folks who are ACARS experts and companies who deal with ACARS, and in one call, an employee tried to set me up with an account after he found that I was a pilot.

They all indicated that the 9/11 Truthers are incorrect and as a result of my discussions with other pilots and information gathered from the ACARS phone calls, I have been waiting for the 'Pilots of 9/11 Truth' to make corrections on its website for the misinformation they have posted in regards to ACARS because the 9/11 conspiracy folks have been using disinformation and misinformation from that website as references.



First of all, the government is not capable of putting together a "Northwoods" operation on the scale of the 9/11 attacks and not get caught. As I have said before, there was no way to modify and switch aircraft in such a manner and not get caught and It would have taken me less than 30 minutes to reveal a switched or faked aircraft.

Basically speaking, you have to get out of that 'Hollywood action movie' mindset.



I am also a war Vet, but don't think that I have never had disagreements with the government on other issues.

I don't think 9/11 was a copycat of Operation  Northwoods, but I think there are areas that kinda ring a bell and that are plausible...And I think the writers of Operation Northwoods had the Hollywood action movie mindset...lol not that my scenario is any less dramatic.lol

I don't think the govt is capable of such a plot, but i know how committed extremists are, especially religious ones, and they will use any/all resources to push their agenda. As they say, the most committed wins.