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God's tomb discovered in Qurna


Hanslune

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A new complex representing a model of the mythical Tomb of Osiris was discovered in Sheikh Abd el-Gourna, inside the unpublished tomb of Kampp -327-

http://luxortimesmag...-qurna.html?m=1

Website of the organization doing the research

http://www.min-project.com/

Edited by Hanslune
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After all these years and knowing what I know now , I still can't get how the original builders can see their way working down at those depths using just oil lamps and crude open flame torches , and I am not entirely so sure the researchers knows either ....

~

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After all these years and knowing what I know now , I still can't get how the original builders can see their way working down at those depths using just oil lamps and crude open flame torches , and I am not entirely so sure the researchers knows either ....

~

Ask all those 16, 17, and 18th century European writers how they got anything done with oil lamps - not to mention the Greeks and Romans - or Chinese. Multiple lamps work just fine. just not as well as electric.

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Ask all those 16, 17, and 18th century European writers how they got anything done with oil lamps - not to mention the Greeks and Romans - or Chinese. Multiple lamps work just fine. just not as well as electric.

What you are not taking into consideration is the depths and confined spaces down the shafts ... go try some cave exploration first then use your proposal as a solve all to everything ... multiple lamps would either suck out the oxygen or go out for lack of in minutes ... unless you can show some evidence of reliable 'ventilation' mechanisms , its a wet duck in a dry desert ~

~

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What you are not taking into consideration is the depths and confined spaces down the shafts ... go try some cave exploration first then use your proposal as a solve all to everything ... multiple lamps would either suck out the oxygen or go out for lack of in minutes ... unless you can show some evidence of reliable 'ventilation' mechanisms , its a wet duck in a dry desert ~

~

Coal mines that were far deeper than these did quite well with lamps and no ventilation it was usually water that was the real problem. No culture that did deep cut tombs seems to have have problems with oxygen that I'm aware of.

Lamps give off a great deal of light once you adapt to them - they weren't threading needles down there, lol.

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Our miners used to put a canaries down the mines while mining. If they checked and the bird was dead, the mine was filling up with poisonous gas, and thus gave them an early warning signal.

Poor canaries, singing one minute, choking to death the next.

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Coal mines that were far deeper than these did quite well with lamps and no ventilation it was usually water that was the real problem. No culture that did deep cut tombs seems to have have problems with oxygen that I'm aware of.

Lamps give off a great deal of light once you adapt to them - they weren't threading needles down there, lol.

It is essential for deep Mines to be ventilated , some mines have natural ventilation up to a certain depth ...

That's the thing isn't it ? For some of the deepest known so far the explanation that the younger tombs were built on top of the older ones should explain a lot.

The depths of some of these ancient constructions challenges even the most modern of excavators with the most advanced equipments available ~

KV17_-_Seti_I_Schematic.jpg

~

Tomb KV17, located in Egypt's Valley of the Kings and also known by the names "Belzoni's tomb", "the Tomb of Apis", and "the Tomb of Psammis, son of Nechois", is the tomb of Pharaoh Seti I of the Nineteenth Dynasty. It is one of the best decorated tombs in the valley, but now is almost always closed to the public due to damage. It was first discovered by Giovanni Battista Belzoni[1] on 16 October 1817. When he first entered the tomb he found the wall paintings in excellent condition with the paint on the walls still looking fresh and some of the artists paints and brushes still on the floor.[2]

The most mysterious feature in the tomb, and one that has perplexed Egyptologists until today, is the long passageway found underneath Seti I's marble sarcophagus.

Why did the ancient Egyptians dig such a tunnel beneath the Pharaoh's sarcophagus? Was it to his treasure, or for religious purposes, or as a security precaution? What was the real purpose of the tunnel? And what did it lead to?

Belzoni and his team tried hard to answer these questions, but they concluded that the tunnel ran down to a depth of 100 metres into the bedrock. It was also theorised that the tunnel was an attempt to link the Pharaoh's burial chamber with the groundwater. This conjecture stemmed from the existence of a natural spring at the Osirion in the Temple of Seti I at Abydos, which provided a pool of water within the structure to symbolise the primaeval waters of creation.

updated :

Tunnel for Ancient Egyptian Ruler Found

Feb 11, 2013 03:00 AM ET

The 570-foot-long tunnel for Seti I was left unfinished and may have been designed to house a secret tomb.

THE GIST:

- It took archaeologists three years to excavate the 570-foot tunnel.

- The tunnel was decorated with preliminary sketches and had instructions inscribed for workers.

After a 23-year effort, archaeologists have uncovered a secret tunnel in the tomb of Seti I, who ruled Egypt more than 3,000 years ago, the culture minister said on Wednesday.

The Egyptian team, headed by antiquities chief Zahi Hawass, had been "searching for this tunnel for over twenty years in the West Bank necropolis" of Luxor, south Egypt, Faruq Hosni said in a statement.

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A new complex representing a model of the mythical Tomb of Osiris was discovered in Sheikh Abd el-Gourna, inside the unpublished tomb of Kampp -327-

http://luxortimesmag...-qurna.html?m=1

Website of the organization doing the research

http://www.min-project.com/

A very interesting find, Hanslune. Thanks for sharing it.

I'm not familiar with the tomb of Kampp (TT327), but I guess that's not surprising if it hasn't ever beenb published. I checked the website of the Theban Mapping Project and it has almost nothing, and actually identifies TT327 as the tomb of Turo.

The article references the Osireion at Abydos. which dates to Dynasty 19. But when I saw the written plans for the deep descending passages of TT327 it immediately reminded me of the Osiris Shaft at Giza, whose burials date to the Late Period (c. Dynasty 26). This is the same for TT327. It was Hawass's theory that the Osiris Shaft was a cenotaph for Osiris, and in fact he named it "Osiris Shaft." Then again, some of TT327 also reminds me of the sprawling KV5, the huge tomb in the Valley of the Kings which ramesses II commissioned for some of his sons in Dynasty 19.

You never know what archaeologists will find next.

After all these years and knowing what I know now , I still can't get how the original builders can see their way working down at those depths using just oil lamps and crude open flame torches , and I am not entirely so sure the researchers knows either ....

~

How else do you suppose they lit the tombs they were cutting? We have countless examples of the clay oil lamps they used, now scattered in museums around the world. From the New Kingdom workmen's village of Deir el Medina we even have records of how each workman was issued two wicks a day, each of which would burn for about four hours (four in the morning, lunch, four in the afternoon). See this link. These little oil lamps give off adequate light but are not going to devour all of the oxygen. If that were actually the case, and as Hanslune pointed out, our history would never have included all manner of mines.

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~snip

How else do you suppose they lit the tombs they were cutting? We have countless examples of the clay oil lamps they used, now scattered in museums around the world. From the New Kingdom workmen's village of Deir el Medina we even have records of how each workman was issued two wicks a day, each of which would burn for about four hours (four in the morning, lunch, four in the afternoon). See this link. These little oil lamps give off adequate light but are not going to devour all of the oxygen. If that were actually the case, and as Hanslune pointed out, our history would never have included all manner of mines.

But boss ... How do they know those wicks are not for the use at home when they get off from work ? that's a open ended dead end argument isn't it ?

Lack of evidence equates no evidence or sufficient evidence for a hundred years equates a thousand ?

Sorry boss , those kind of principles works only in books and for Academia Graduating Grades ~ and one can so obviously detect the hints when so and so 'discoverer' of the latest marvels of the ancient world says 'baffling' ~ albeit in a more dignified manner and with a respectable choice of words ~ and these are people tested with knowledge available to the modern industrial world ...

~ No one is saying ET intelligence transfers here ... if anything this alone makes it much much more essential to know if not the most relevant of things one can learn from Ancient' Technology ~

~ One other thing that is most skimmed over is the lack of space , and how many workmen can fit in the tombs and passage ways shafts at any one time ... more people more problems ... obviously ~

~

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After all these years and knowing what I know now , I still can't get how the original builders can see their way working down at those depths using just oil lamps and crude open flame torches , and I am not entirely so sure the researchers knows either ....

~

But 3rd Eye, we've dug far deeper than that using open flame torches.

Edit: Heck, all they needed was oil lamps and reflectors.

Edited by Likely Guy
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But 3rd Eye, we've dug far deeper than that using open flame torches.

Terrain and geological nature makes the difference to what you are suggesting ~ those depths are above sea level ... it makes for a lot of difference ~

And on some mountains the deepest 'depths' is actually sideways / horizontal ~ and pocked filled with air caverns ~ locale temperature also makes it critical ~ obviously the hotter the area , the more critical it is with air in the depths ~

~

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But boss ... How do they know those wicks are not for the use at home when they get off from work ? that's a open ended dead end argument isn't it ?

Lack of evidence equates no evidence or sufficient evidence for a hundred years equates a thousand ?

Sorry boss , those kind of principles works only in books and for Academia Graduating Grades ~ and one can so obviously detect the hints when so and so 'discoverer' of the latest marvels of the ancient world says 'baffling' ~ albeit in a more dignified manner and with a respectable choice of words ~ and these are people tested with knowledge available to the modern industrial world ...

~ No one is saying ET intelligence transfers here ... if anything this alone makes it much much more essential to know if not the most relevant of things one can learn from Ancient' Technology ~

~ One other thing that is most skimmed over is the lack of space , and how many workmen can fit in the tombs and passage ways shafts at any one time ... more people more problems ... obviously ~

~

Less people, longer to build and no problems. You seem to be trying to find a problem were none exists. May I suggest that if you are concerned that you do the calculations of oxygen use for humans and lamps in a confined space. Let us know what you come up with

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Less people, longer to build and no problems. You seem to be trying to find a problem were none exists. May I suggest that if you are concerned that you do the calculations of oxygen use for humans and lamps in a confined space. Let us know what you come up with

I have blacked out in a confined space of a cave before ... and there was no open flame either ... it also depends on the state of health of the individual

Your suggestions is not least the first of my foremost concerns when I first started focusing on such 'non existent' problems, as you so deprecatingly put it ...

~

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But boss ... How do they know those wicks are not for the use at home when they get off from work ? that's a open ended dead end argument isn't it ?

Lack of evidence equates no evidence or sufficient evidence for a hundred years equates a thousand ?

Sorry boss , those kind of principles works only in books and for Academia Graduating Grades ~ and one can so obviously detect the hints when so and so 'discoverer' of the latest marvels of the ancient world says 'baffling' ~ albeit in a more dignified manner and with a respectable choice of words ~ and these are people tested with knowledge available to the modern industrial world ...

~ No one is saying ET intelligence transfers here ... if anything this alone makes it much much more essential to know if not the most relevant of things one can learn from Ancient' Technology ~

~ One other thing that is most skimmed over is the lack of space , and how many workmen can fit in the tombs and passage ways shafts at any one time ... more people more problems ... obviously ~

~

I know aliens aren't being suggested, and you probably know me well enough that if someone were suggesting alien technology, I would dismiss it outright. I understand you're just skeptical about the use of oil lamps. I'm just emphasizing that the sum total of evidence points to oil lamps. You mentioned the tight confines of the work area, and that is indeed the case—and for that reason most scholars do not consider open torches to have been used. They would've been too dangerous,

Oil lamps were used both at work and at home. We know from workmen records at Deir el Medina that workmen's pay would include, in part, the oil needed to fuel their lamps at home. We also understand that pinches of salt would be placed into the burning oil to cut down on smoke and soot.

All I can suggest is that you make one of those clay lamps (check out local museums for real examples), hop on a plane and fly to Egypt, and give it a try in some ancient tomb. See how well they actually work. It's not as though experimental archaeologists haven't thought of this themselves. I'd go myself, mind you, but funds are tight for me these days. And I don't want to be arrested by some surly Egyptian antiquities guard. :w00t:

Hollywood as turned to some pretty inventive ways to suggest ancient lighting, such as the reflective discs in the 1996 The Mummy movie. This is pure Hollywood, however, and would not work for corridors being cut deep into the earth, because the farther down one went. the weaker and weaker the reflective light would be. But everything else depicted in The Mummy is absolutely, dead-on accurate (I'm kidding). Per my previous post regarding the issuing of oil lamps to workmen, we know they used them inside the tombs.

Deir el Medina is always a good example to use because so much detailed evidence has been found from ancient textual sources and material culture. I can't recall how many men would be in each work crew but it is generally understood to us today, thanks to the ancient records. I do recall, however, that each crew had a left-side gang and a right-side, to divide work in the tomb into halves. These folks were very smart and knew what they were doing. So while working conditions had to have been tight and uncomfortable, they would've understood that too many men at any one time would only be problematic.

So come out with it, man! How do you think they lit their work spaces?

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I have blacked out in a confined space of a cave before ... and there was no open flame either ... it also depends on the state of health of the individual

Your suggestions is not least the first of my foremost concerns when I first started focusing on such 'non existent' problems, as you so deprecatingly put it ...

~

Many years ago a young friend of mine from Canada went into a cave with his buddy, and died from asphyxiation. His buddy survived. So yes, caves can indeed be very dangerous—but it depends on any given cabe. There are environmental conditions that can allow for adequate oxygen or, conversely, to permit little oxygen.

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Caves and shafts are entirely different. Caves are natural. Shafts and tunnels are engineered.

Edited by Likely Guy
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Kmt's experiment need not be run in Egypt - any confined space like a shaft can be used - or you can just use the known data to figure it out. I wonder if any of the crews did run into a problems and that is one reason we find unfinished constructions - perhaps they would take some/all of crew dying to indicate that the 'gods' were not pleased with the work.

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~snip

Deir el Medina is always a good example to use because so much detailed evidence has been found from ancient textual sources and material culture. I can't recall how many men would be in each work crew but it is generally understood to us today, thanks to the ancient records. I do recall, however, that each crew had a left-side gang and a right-side, to divide work in the tomb into halves. These folks were very smart and knew what they were doing. So while working conditions had to have been tight and uncomfortable, they would've understood that too many men at any one time would only be problematic.

That's what I am saying and this is what I've been reading on boss , not the 'Dates' and 'Names' or the slightly speculative nature on much of what Historians 'believe' ... opinions mind you boss ... I have not the least bit interest in that , like I always said , Khufu and the Nebs and Tets didn't build anything ~ they just have to make busy being gods that roam the earth ~

;)

So come out with it, man! How do you think they lit their work spaces?

If I knew boss , I would be link bombing the thread ... :lol:

So far I like the bronze mirrors trick ... but that can only take us so far ... and not deep enough ... where the problem is most acute.

And they must know some all natural chemical trick to clear the CO2 ...

Many years ago a young friend of mine from Canada went into a cave with his buddy, and died from asphyxiation. His buddy survived. So yes, caves can indeed be very dangerous—but it depends on any given cabe. There are environmental conditions that can allow for adequate oxygen or, conversely, to permit little oxygen.

I am familiar with oil lamps boss , we still use them at religious or cultural events.

I grew up with oil lamps as electricity was a luxury not available to that many in the rural areas in those days.

Since we're on that subject of death, a dead body in those shafts and tunnels would be a logistical nightmare.

Oh please don't say they'll be tossed out like with the chips and thrash, demeaning them culturally is as bad as demeaning the masonry skills of the AE builders.

~

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Since we're on that subject of death, a dead body in those shafts and tunnels would be a logistical nightmare.

Why? The AE had thousands of years experience moving bodies around and putting them into rock tombs why all the personal incredulity about this process?

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But boss ... How do they know those wicks are not for the use at home when they get off from work ? that's a open ended dead end argument isn't it ?

Eight hours a day of at-home lamplight would imply serious insomnia and maybe a circulating library, wouldn't it? :P

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After all these years and knowing what I know now , I still can't get how the original builders can see their way working down at those depths using just oil lamps and crude open flame torches , and I am not entirely so sure the researchers knows either ....

~

I see. So your position is "because I don't understand it, it couldn't have happened"?

Rather narrows the scope of potential human activity, it needing to be understood by you to happen.

--Jaylemurph

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I see. So your position is "because I don't understand it, it couldn't have happened"?

Rather narrows the scope of potential human activity, it needing to be understood by you to happen.

--Jaylemurph

Indeed; I mean all those stories about people eating raw oysters - yuck, I think not! I'm also suspicious about WWI how do we know it actually happened?

lol

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' Night' or 'low light' vision works differently for different people. It also depends on what one's eyes are used to.

I live in a rural area with no night lighting (and I have no electricity) ... some people will just not believe me that I can walk around at night, no moon, just using star light.

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Why? The AE had thousands of years experience moving bodies around and putting them into rock tombs why all the personal incredulity about this process?

you are looking at it from a strictly textual perspective ~

Eight hours a day of at-home lamplight would imply serious insomnia and maybe a circulating library, wouldn't it? :P

that's a bit one dimensional of a great three dimensional society isn't it ?

I see. So your position is "because I don't understand it, it couldn't have happened"?

Rather narrows the scope of potential human activity, it needing to be understood by you to happen.

--Jaylemurph

Who said anything about it could not have happened ?

That's not the point Jay , the point is I wanna know , I wanna understand even if no one else wanna know anymore

Ancient Thebes - CyArk link

I don't understand the hoopla on here when questions such as these are raised ~ what's the big deal ?

I am hardly the only one , biased perspectives is the major concerns for many when it comes to whatever and all things AE ~

Why do ancient statues and paintings of Black people, often NOT look like Black people?

THE VANISHING EVIDENCE OF CLASSICAL AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS

by Prof. Manu Ampim

The widespread damage to the temple images has allowed Egyptologists to argue from such sources as the temple evidence that ancient Egypt was a multi-racial society and therefore belongs to the world’s heritage and not necessarily to African history. There are probably about a million tourists each year who visit Egypt and Nubia, and they get a totally false view of the identity of the builders of these great civilizations, largely because the evidence of the builders’ Black origin is disappearing. This vanishing evidence has enabled dishonest Egyptologists and tour guides to misrepresent the identity of the founders and builders of ancient Egypt by selectively pointing out the “non-African” images on the walls. Actually, the images which appear to look “non-African” have undergone a racial make-over and look nothing like they did originally. These images have been crudely recarved by European and Arab conspirators who work hard to eliminate all traces of African facial features. Only through exhaustive first-hand research can one demonstrate from the surviving on-site temple evidence that ancient Egypt was a Black civilization.

  • "Before beginning our history of Egypt, let us first dispel some popular White Lies and subterfuge." - link

Edited by third_eye
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crap!! im late...

which god are we talking about? i'd love to hop right in on this one!! :tsu:

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