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NASA Edits Proof Of Apollo Moon Hoax!


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#421    DBunker

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 05:51 PM

The Apollo moonhoax has been debunked over and over again. sleepy.gif


http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missi...tos_010427.html




Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#422    MID

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 05:57 PM

QUOTE(turbonium @ Sep 2 2005, 09:05 PM)
QUOTE(MID @ Sep 2 2005, 04:47 PM)
Turb:

The Soviets were a power in space.  We beat them because they didn't have a von Braun who could cluster advanced engines. That's it in a nutshell.   They were no longer arch rivals in the mid-1970s, and the detante brought forth in the 1970s made it clear that ASTP would be a good thing to do, because America was realizing that cooperation and assistance from the Soviets would be essential to any real peace-time space project in the future.   It was just a good thing, for the future of space flight and the future of humanity...and has been  something which has been well proven out with the Shuttle debacles and the Russians being the only ones who could supply the ISS. 


The SRC's (Sample Return Containers) in the Apollo LMs were all secured in areas designed for them in the LMs.  No rocks were rolling around loose in the cabin.  They were all vacuum sealed on the surface of the moon, packed in outer containers, and stowed quite sercurely for the return to Earth, both in the LM and in the CM.

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Thanks, MID - your answers are reasonable. But, at the risk of veering off into another conspiracy subject, the US and USSR were also involved in many covert deals that the public was not aware of,  from after WW2 through the 1980's. This link goes into details on the US support of Russia, through money and goods (eg. grain).
US-USSR Alliance

I have heard that the Soviets knew about the moon hoax and bribed the US by exchanging their silence for tons of grain shipments free of charge. I don't know if this is true, but I honestly do not think the two nations were the mortal enemies that the mainstream press portrayed them to be. The link shows US and European bankers funding the Russian Revolution, and they continued funding them throughout the Cold War period and through the 1970's and 1980's. It seems like every "War" declared is actually a cover name for the opposite. The War on Drugs, The War on Poverty, and now, The War on Terror, all seem to result in more drugs, more poverty, and more terror, not less. The Cold War may have been just another phony name to dupe the public. Anyway, I guess I should stop digressing too much... wink2.gif

And the moon rocks bouncing around was just me having some fun - it wasn't a serious question.  original.gif

Cheers

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I don't think it's true, at least regarding the moon hoax.  

However, I agree with everything you said.  You're absolutely right about the covert deals.   It isn't really much of a secret that alot of this was going on.  Indeed, Russia today would hardly exist if it weren't for U.S. aid.  

I would definitely agree that the U.S. and the Soviets were nowhere near the mortal enemies that have been portrayed.   I think the evil empire was, albeit true in some respects, just a front.  Both governments realized the falacy in the arms race, and the Soviets most certainly began to realize that the U.S. could be a huge help.  A very complex situation, to be sure, one that goes far beyond the simplistic "Ruskies versus American" mentality that was present in America during the "cold war" years.  

Kennedy's communications with Kruschev discussed the survival of humanity, the Soviet Union and its problems, and such things as those.   I think they both realized what kind of hell would result from the indisciminant usage of weapons.   I think they both understood that life was more important than all the political bull dung that the two countries had slung at each other over the years.     They were both cognizant of the horror implicit in the disaster of nuclear conflict...jeez, just look at New Orleans and you get a picture, albeit small scale, of what might happen if a nuclear exchange were to take place...

It seems that the musings of people who've made these movies about armageddon and nuclear holocaust were right regarding the results...

But anyway, you're right, we're digressing into something else!

And as to the wars...oh yes, you're right on target there too.


Roger on the rocks rolling around in the cabin. original.gif

Regards

Edited by MID, 03 September 2005 - 06:00 PM.


#423    DBunker

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 06:05 PM

Put aside those absurd claims the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax.

Two scientists pouring over photos taken by a lunar orbiting spacecraft have eyed evidence of a touchdown.


The conspiracy theorist have already been disproved.
There are thousands of pictures and hours of footage and a myriad of other documentary evidence from which only one conclusion can be drawn.

That being that the U.S. space program took place substantially as it appeared.

Anyone that denies this conclusion from the evidence is unlikely to be persuaded by a few more pictures....HOWEVER...

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missi...hotos_010427.ht


Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#424    MID

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE(DEBUNKER @ Sep 3 2005, 01:51 PM)
The Apollo moonhoax has been debunked over and over again. sleepy.gif


http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missi...tos_010427.html

View Post





Well, I think we all know that.
Stating the obvious doesn't really contribute much to this particular discussion.

This is about discussing the various ideas that are present in today's society regarding this business.   It is a learning experience, to be sure, hopefully for people on both ends of the spectrum.  It is also interesting to see how others view things.   It makes you see how other people think, which is always interesting, I feel.

There isn't really any point in people coming on here and being rude, or obnoxious, or making utterances like "You're an idiot."   This serves no purpose whatsoever.  It's also irrelevant to state the obvious.  Even the people who question Apollo know full well that the hoax ideas have been debunked ad-nauseam.   They may well not believe the people who debunk it.

I'm interested in why, not in stating the obvious or in calling people names (as I've seen many times in several places discussing this).   The process of investigating these opinions improves one's own critical thinking, and teaches everyone something.

That's very likely worth it.

Regards.


#425    turbonium

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE
Those couple of frames are showing the boundary between the gold foil and the darker area above it,which is clearly visible in the area of the photo where you've labeled "struts". The camera, still upside down is quickly panning through that region, then you see some evidence of struts and other rigging as the camera moves beyond the aft area of the LM


MID - I bolded your text to point something out. The gold foil has the darker area above it, in the "struts" photo, which of course is not upside down. But you are saying the camera is "upside down" in this still...
user posted image
But the "foil" is still on the bottom and the "darker area" is still above it. If it is upside down, it should actually look like this...
user posted image
But then the "foil" is above the dark area.

Edited by turbonium, 04 September 2005 - 08:53 AM.


#426    DBunker

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 11:21 AM

That is a very nice picture. no.gif

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#427    MID

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 03:53 PM

QUOTE(turbonium @ Sep 4 2005, 04:52 AM)
QUOTE
Those couple of frames are showing the boundary between the gold foil and the darker area above it,which is clearly visible in the area of the photo where you've labeled "struts". The camera, still upside down is quickly panning through that region, then you see some evidence of struts and other rigging as the camera moves beyond the aft area of the LM


MID - I bolded your text to point something out. The gold foil has the darker area above it, in the "struts" photo, which of course is not upside down. But you are saying the camera is "upside down" in this still...
user posted image
But the "foil" is still on the bottom and the "darker area" is still above it. If it is upside down, it should actually look like this...
user posted image
But then the "foil" is above the dark area.

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Turb:

In the top picture, if the camera is upside-down, you are seeing an upside down image. You're standing upright looking at it.   And, if you turn the picture over, as you did in the lower one, you are in fact seeing the picture as if you were looking through the view finder on the upside down camera.   You are absolutely correct.

But remember, in seeing the picture as it is oriented in the lower frame, you would be upside down looking at it.  Thus, at the top of this view, you're seeing the upper edge of the gold foil on the descent stage of the LM, and "below it, the darker area toward the ascent stage.  The camera is pointing up toward the top edge of the descent stage.

In this second view I describe, where you're now upside down like the camera is, bending your head toward your chest and looking "down" would find you looking up toward the ascent stage, and moving your head "up" and looking that way would result in your eyes seeing the descent stage, and eventually, the lunar surface.

So, you're correct in that the gold foil is "above" the darker area....as the camera is actually seeing it...but the camera is upside-down upside down...so in relation to gravity, the gold foil area is actually toward the surface, and the darker area is above it.

This is tough to describe.   Hopefully, I've been clear enough?

Regards


#428    LyCaN123

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Posted 06 September 2005 - 05:41 AM

QUOTE(Thanato @ Jun 18 2005, 07:45 PM)
The DVD one is accualy better qulity i think, i can make out Details better.

~Thanato

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If Nasa did make a cover-up of Appollo why did they do it?


#429    turbonium

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 01:26 AM

Hi MID - well, I think you then mean that the top still of the two is actually right side up, correct? That would have to be the case, since the gold foil area of the lem is below the dark "strut" area.


#430    turbonium

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 01:47 AM

QUOTE(LyCaN123 @ Sep 5 2005, 10:41 PM)
QUOTE(Thanato @ Jun 18 2005, 07:45 PM)
The DVD one is accualy better qulity i think, i can make out Details better.

~Thanato

View Post


If Nasa did make a cover-up of Appollo why did they do it?

View Post


There are numerous motives for hoaxing the moon landings. The money spent on the Apollo project was enormous, and to not land on the moon would have resulted in an American public outcry at the huge waste of money for little or nothing to show for it.

Remember, this was during the Vietnam War, a quagmire costing thousands of American lives (and many more times Vietnamese lives) and countless dollars - and for what? The Apollo project was seen as not only an ideological battle of Democracy versus Communism (as we were told the Vietnam War was), but also as something positive for American pride and "superiority" over the rest of the world, especially the USSR. Back when Sputnik was launched, during the McCarthy era, to be a "Red" was something akin to being in league with Satan himself.

And of course, the notion of military superiority was considered necessary - and in that era, if you were seen as superior in space, you were considered the world's foremost superpower. It's not true, of course, but at that time it certainly was, in large part thanks to the media hyping it up to the hilt.

But I think money, as it invariably is in most mega-projects, would be the number one reason.  If Apollo would have ended in disaster or failure, future funding would have been almost impossible to justify.

Edited by turbonium, 07 September 2005 - 01:49 AM.


#431    DataCable

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 04:12 AM

QUOTE(turbonium @ Sep 6 2005, 09:47 PM)
There are numerous motives for hoaxing the moon landings.

All of which you have presented are just as valid motives for performing a successful lunar landing mission... or six.



#432    turbonium

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 05:49 AM

QUOTE(DataCable @ Sep 6 2005, 09:12 PM)
QUOTE(turbonium @ Sep 6 2005, 09:47 PM)
There are numerous motives for hoaxing the moon landings.

All of which you have presented are just as valid motives for performing a successful lunar landing mission... or six.

View Post


I agree - with the exception of another motive I didn't present - the one I feel is the real reason for having to fake it. There was a great leap needed, but far from achieving, in technical ability, due largely to the hazards present in space travel - the radiation, solar flares, and other extreme environmental conditions,  to successfully land men on the moon and return safely.

Making actual attempts and showing the disastrous results on live TV while millions watched would have been a catastrophe for the US and its space program.

btw - could you point out where you cropped your photo from on the original pic?

Edited by turbonium, 07 September 2005 - 05:53 AM.


#433    DataCable

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 08:45 AM

QUOTE(turbonium @ Sep 7 2005, 01:49 AM)
the one I feel is the real reason for having to fake it

In other words, the highly technical boogeyman which is not easily understood by the layman, allowing you to present it as an impenetrable, indefensible, inescapable, insurmountable obstacle, and hence provides a convenient end-run circumvention around the necessity to actually prove any fakery:  RADIATION <cue spooky music>  sleepy.gif

Are you seriously arguing that NASA hadn't considered the issue of radiation at all before they proposed the project to Kennedy?


QUOTE
There was a great leap needed, but far from achieving, in technical ability, due largely to the hazards present in space travel

Wow do the inconsistent verb tenses in that sentence make it difficult to understand.


QUOTE
the radiation

Which was easily shieled against.


QUOTE
solar flares

Rare events which were avoided by keeping the mission durations short.

If you have evidence of a solar flare of life-endangering intensity occuring during an Apollo mission, please present it.  The effects of solar flares cannot be covered up, by NASA or anyone else.


QUOTE
and other extreme environmental conditions

Such as?


QUOTE
Making actual attempts and showing the disastrous results on live TV while millions watched would have been a catastrophe for the US and its space program.

Indeed, it likely would have... if the results had in fact been disastrous...  which, of course, they weren't.


QUOTE
could you point out where you cropped your photo from on the original pic?

<sigh> Point your cursor at 482x1418.


Can you point out the "flesh tones" in this image?

user posted image

And the "white, phone-shaped object on the surface," the one which appears at the bottom of all the RealVideo frames, proving that the "metal shade" is actually being pulled down...  Does that appear here?


#434    turbonium

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:02 AM

QUOTE
Point your cursor at 482x1418.

Pixels? Do you mean 482x418? because I can't get a 1418 measurement from pixels. If it is the gold foil, you must have color edited your cropped image, because the actual area looks like the cropped image I posted here below yours....

user posted imageuser posted image



#435    turbonium

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:30 AM

QUOTE
Can you point out the "flesh tones" in this image?

QUOTE
And the "white, phone-shaped object on the surface," the one which appears at the bottom of all the RealVideo frames, proving that the "metal shade" is actually being pulled down... Does that appear here?

Yes - and these are the RealVideo frames, not the DVD frame you posted...
user posted image
user posted image

As for the rest of your replies, they were rather childish - you're old enough to be done with that. Follow MID's examples of how to post in a mature, respectful way.

Edited by turbonium, 08 September 2005 - 01:34 AM.





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