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Tantalising Testimony


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#511    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:06 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 05 July 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Our pilots account does not mention the craft above him in this article, it says he looked out the window to his left and saw something the size of his hand that looked like paper, it does not mention anything over his head, and he says he left the object. And the one you supplied is a man in the control room, not White?

This was a different incident, which took place on April 30, 1962 when Joseph Walker was flying the X-15.  He filmed UFOs twice during his test flights, at least that I know of.  The films have been shown on TV here in the US, although now they are in the hands of a private part who is looking to sell them.

These UFOs were flying higher than faster than even our most advanced spy planes like the U-2 and the Oxcart.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 05 July 2012 - 06:11 AM.


#512    zoser

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:12 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 04 July 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Hi TheMacGuffin,

I beg to differ. Zoser is not being piled on because of the person he is or what he believes in, but due to the way that he argues his case (or lack of same). And rightfully so, you reap what you sow. Zoser has been around for a while and has, quite frankly, been peddling a lot of junk cases that has been long explained and been long dead. Nothing wrong with that, in and off itself. We all learn - or should learn. However, quite a few posters at UM have spent a lot of time to post links to scientific journals, videos and other material explaining in detail where he is wrong. He has brushed those off completely without even a hint of acknowledgment. I personally find that rather disrespectful.  

Zoser has made it his modus operandi to avoid all discussion and instead accuse posters opposing his point of view of not doing research, while it is embarrassingly obvious that he has no depth insight into any of what he posts and really only wants confirmation (mindless youtube searching and posting without doing even a simple Google search when it would show him that he was wrong), not a discussion to sort out what is good data and what is bad data. When he is shown to be patently wrong he'll abandon a thread, yet post the same arguments in another. At that point in time the discussion automatically translates from one of the topic at hand to one of debating tactics, and that is inherently tied to the poster itself. Nothing nefarious about it. Try the same trick in a scientific forum (say, in front of 300 scientists) and you would be flayed alive. He did this to himself and in the process he has lost all credibility. As he is appearing here it seem like he thinks this is some kind of blog where he can post what he likes and only accept positive comments. But as a discussion forum, he is patently wrong and his assertions are becoming pretty embarrassing, with all due respect. I can only speak for myself, but I only comment scarcely now and not for Zoser's benefit or my own (it's like arguing 2+2 does not equal 5), but for the benefit of the new reader to UM that might not be as well versed in the cases.

In contrary are a lot of other posters, yourself included. We have disagreed and we still do on a lot of what is put forth, but you take to the time to argue your case instead of just ad infinitum repeating what has been refuted in the hope that if you are persistent enough, it will turn into a truth. It will not. And you take the time to look at the counter arguments and what they entail. I respect that a lot.

Cheers,
Badeskov

The testimony of the dozens and even hundreds of witnesses on this thread now speaks louder than anyones intellectual argument.  

As for the cases being already "dealt with":

Consider them re-opened.

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#513    psyche101

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:34 AM

View Postzoser, on 05 July 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

The testimony of the dozens and even hundreds of witnesses on this thread now speaks louder than anyones intellectual argument.  

As for the cases being already "dealt with":

Consider them re-opened.




So if one thousand people say 1+1=3 you say that is correct, and math is incorrect?



They are not re-opened, you just cannot come to terms with the prosaic explanations, that's all.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#514    psyche101

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:40 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 July 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

This was a different incident, which took place on April 30, 1962 when Joseph Walker was flying the X-15.  He filmed UFOs twice during his test flights, at least that I know of.  The films have been shown on TV here in the US, although now they are in the hands of a private part who is looking to sell them.

These UFOs were flying higher than faster than even our most advanced spy planes like the U-2 and the Oxcart.

That explains a lot!!!! I thought we were talking about Robert White!

Edited by psyche101, 05 July 2012 - 06:41 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#515    DingoLingo

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:44 AM

ok zoser.. but what about the 100's and thousands of people who saw something the same time as your witness's and say.. it was a air plane.. or a bird.. ?


#516    zoser

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:47 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 05 July 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

So if one thousand people say 1+1=3 you say that is correct, and math is incorrect?



They are not re-opened, you just cannot come to terms with the prosaic explanations, that's all.

Individually people can be considered to misread what they experience.  En-mass over decades this is just not possible.  The weight of history of 70 years of sightings stands against your argument.

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#517    zoser

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:49 AM

View PostDingoLingo, on 05 July 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

ok zoser.. but what about the 100's and thousands of people who saw something the same time as your witness's and say.. it was a air plane.. or a bird.. ?

I haven't seen many of these I'm afraid.  Regarding the Hudson Valley sightings and the Phoenix lights the over whelming majority of people are reporting unexplainable objects not planes, balloons or lightning.

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#518    S2F

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:53 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 July 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

In this age of computer-enhanced images and manipulation, I also know enough to be leery of "leaked pictures", like this one that cropped up on the Internet last year.  If any of these pictures was the real thing, how would we know it in the midst of so many fakes?  

Posted Image

Posted Image


Or are they just puppets made for a movie or an X-Files episode, as some people have claimed?  No matter whether they were real or not, there would always be plenty of people coming along to muddy up the waters.

Here is a prime example of people muddying the waters.

Posted Image


It turns out that this unfortunate alien was a hoax. Looks pretty convincing though. Certainly evidence that hoaxers can get quite elaborate and creative.

http://www.rt.com/ne...n-siberia-body/

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#519    zoser

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:47 AM

The Smoking Gun - Trans En Province - France - 1981

Renato Niccolai, a farmer sees an small saucer shaped object land in his field.  It makes an impact crater, remains for a short while and takes off again.  The authorities conduct a very detailed soil analysis and find unusual radiation and toxicity traces.  Renato is interviewed again by a psychologist who is convinced by his testimony.  The soil exhibits symptoms of heating to a very high temperature in the order of 1500 deg C.

This event convinces the authorities that the phenomena is undeniable

.

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#520    psyche101

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:58 AM

View Postzoser, on 05 July 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Individually people can be considered to misread what they experience.  En-mass over decades this is just not possible.  The weight of history of 70 years of sightings stands against your argument.


How about thousands of people claiming to see biblical figures for ten minutes?

LINK

LINK 1

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#521    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:20 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 04 July 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

The observer was in space, were the objects? As far as I know they were within view. What I was responding to was you saying nothing of that shape existed in 1962. It did and you can see it.
Did it? How many airships of Zeppelin size were flying in the early 1960s, let alone enough of them to be flying about in formation? of course, it may have been Secret military Experiments, of course, that all purpose explanation for everything ... :innocent:

Edited by 747400, 05 July 2012 - 08:21 AM.

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#522    zoser

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:25 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 05 July 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

How about thousands of people claiming to see biblical figures for ten minutes?

LINK

LINK 1

Your clutching at straws now.  I have no doubt that religious hysteria exists along with other rare psychological phenomena.  This is not relevant to the UFO phenomena.

Edited by zoser, 05 July 2012 - 08:27 AM.

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#523    quillius

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:59 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 05 July 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

That explains a lot!!!! I thought we were talking about Robert White!

Hey Psyche,

you may enjoy this read:

http://magonia.haaan...2009/fireflies/

cheers


#524    booNyzarC

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:12 PM

View Postzoser, on 05 July 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Your clutching at straws now.  I have no doubt that religious hysteria exists along with other rare psychological phenomena.  This is not relevant to the UFO phenomena.
Why not?


#525    DBunker

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:52 PM

View Postzoser, on 05 July 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Your clutching at straws now.  I have no doubt that religious hysteria exists along with other rare psychological phenomena.  This is not relevant to the UFO phenomena.

Im sorry, what??

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