140 replies to this topic

[psyche101]

topsecretresearch, on 25 February 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

An alien spacecraft such as a flying saucer or an alien body would be not very likley simply because there is a cover-up. You would have a media black out, cover mechanism etc. What is more likely is ET debris and that sort of thing.

One example would be a New Berlin, New York case from 1964 where the occupants were performing repairs on a craft.

You can read about this case in the book UFOs Over New York By Preston Dennett.

To her surprise, she also found an apparent piece of cable. Says Hatzenbuhler, "The outer part of it looked like the wrapping, something like a brown paper towl, only it wasn't like our paper towl. It felt rather like that, and was dark brown in color. It seemed to be a wrapping for a cable, tubular. And in the center of it - it had been cut laterally - you could see the strip, maybe an inch wide, more or less, something that looked like finely shredded aluminum strips laid in there, and it was as long as the piece of paper, and that the color and feel of aluminum, although it wasn't aluminum. It didn't behave like aluminum. Aluminum will crumple and this didn't crumple. You couldn't crease it. It was inside, strips of this, laying inside the paper. You could remove the inside, for the outside paper had been cut along the length of the piece, but it was all together."

Unfortunately, this crucial piece of evidence has become lost.

What a crock. ETH'ers always play the cover up card, why do you feel this is necessary in todays society? For one, you could filme the thing and email it to a thousand sources at the touch of a button, Cover that up. Alternatively, all one need do is take photos to prove you were there first, and then make one phone call to the local radio station. Within 10 minutes there will be too many people to cover up the story at the site and media will have the evidence spread across the globe in seconds. Cover that up.

This is the digital age, the old excuses do not work anymore.

[psyche101]

MedicTJ, on 25 February 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

He's gonna have to pony up more than $100 grand.

That's like a loaf of bread and a box of jujyfruits these days.

You do not have to produce the craft or an alien. Just an Extraterrestrial resistor would do. It only asks  for proof of a craft, not the craft not alien itself.

Way behind the 8 ball, he no doubt stole the idea for Klass and thought he could market it. Randi's challenge is safe as houses too as far as I know.

From Wikipedia:


In 1966, Klass made an offer that stood for the remaining thirty-nine years of his life. By 1974, the offer had changed slightly, to the following form:

• Klass agrees to pay to the second party the sum of $10,000 within thirty days after any of the following occur^{[citation needed]}:

(A) Any crashed spacecraft, or major piece of a spacecraft is found to be clearly of extraterrestrial origin by the United States National Academy of Sciences, or ( The National Academy of Sciences announces that it has examined other evidence which conclusively proves that Earth has been visited by extraterrestrial spacecraft in the 20th century, or © A bona fide extraterrestrial visitor, born on a celestial body other than the Earth, appears live before the General Assembly of the United Nations or on a national television program.

• The party accepting this offer pays Klass $100 per year, for a maximum of ten years, each year none of these things occur. Even after the ten-year period, Klass's offer of $10,000 was available until his death.

Klass made this offer openly to anyone. The offer was specifically declined by Frank Edwards, John G. Fuller, J. Allen Hynek, and James Harder, some of whom were the most vocal promoters of the extraterrestrial hypothesis (Klass 1974:356–57). One person had entered into the agreement with Klass. A man in Seattle, Washington accepted the terms in 1969 and made two annual payments of $100. Then in 1971 he made a bogus claim for the prize. When it was pointed out that his claim didn't meet any of the conditions, the man let the agreement lapse. In his bookUFOs Explained, Klass offered to refund the full purchase price to every reader of the book if any of the conditions of his "UFO challenge" were ever met (Klass 1974:354–60).

[Kludge808]

topsecretresearch, on 26 February 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

Our scary defense complex will wipe you off the map or fry your brain with microwaves if that's what it takes to keep the secrecy. I complied a list of witness harassment/ threat cases so it's no small matter.

Oh, crud.  That is the other reason I have this custom made tin & copper helmet*.  I knew the mothership part but forgot the ebil gummint part.  Yep, yep, microwaves.  Tightly focused beams like the Crossbow project's laser.  (Anyone catch that reference?)

* The older tin helmets were far superior to the more common aluminum ones, especially the aluminum foil ones.  A tin & copper alloy is even better since it's a better conductor so is far and above the others for cerebral shielding.  I had mine custom made, cast and polished by artisans rather than use the more common formed ones.  It cost significantly more but it was worth it.

I tried looking for your compiled list but - funny thing - only registered users can get there.  Sooo ... that part is off limits to anyone except FTBs who're the only folks who'd sign up to gain access.  Wow, how unexpected.  Uh-huh.  I guess we'll never know how unimpressive it really is.  You know, like the rest of the site.

However, let's think about something.  Do you think your site or the others like it would be allowed to stay up if the "scary defense complex" (SDC) was all that concerned about those "secrets"?  You have people telling about threats, right?  Or that's what you imply.  Do you think they'd be allowed to do so by the SDC if they were real?  Do you think even one of those "reports" on your site would be available if the SDC were all that you claim?  Sooo ... how could you have an entire site devoted to all those secret stuff if it were really secret?

[Kludge808]

Rlyeh, on 26 February 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

May aswell just make a list of mental disorders.

I suspect they're read the same.

[Kludge808]

Hazzard, on 26 February 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Bottom line - all the claims (thousands and thousands) falls WAAYYY short of anything even remotely resembling scientific proof that ET exist, have found Earth, or are here on a visit.

Do you have a better explanation for politicians and Paris Hilton?

[Kludge808]

psyche101, on 27 February 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

So Aliens use old armoured HV cable with paper insulation to power saucers do they.

Aluminium cabe is hard drawn, it does not crumple, aluminium cans do.

Welcome to the fray, brah.  We's gots plenny FTBs for target practice so lock and load.

[Kludge808]

psyche101, on 27 February 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

This is the digital age, the old excuses do not work anymore.

Ahhh, but the SDC (as defined in a previous post) chased down all those copies and eradicated them.  "They're everywhere!  They're everywhere!" (Envision Chicken Little with a new battle cry.)  Oh, and they silenced the recipients with their "Microwave Mind Blaster" so they are now babbling idiots and running for office all over the world.

[DONTEATUS]

Are we all talking about the Federation`s EPA rules again ? E.T  has been sighted many,many times for off loading there trash on earth !
Thats all the Russian meteor was you know ! FTL trash !
Flashing blue lights read-em-ther rights !
justDONTEATUS!

[Kludge808]

DONTEATUS, on 27 February 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

Are we all talking about the Federation`s EPA rules again ? E.T  has been sighted many,many times for off loading there trash on earth !
Thats all the Russian meteor was you know ! FTL trash !
Flashing blue lights read-em-ther rights !
justDONTEATUS!

ROFLMAO!

[quillius]

psyche101, on 27 February 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

You do not have to produce the craft or an alien. Just an Extraterrestrial resistor would do. It only asks  for proof of a craft, not the craft not alien itself.

Way behind the 8 ball, he no doubt stole the idea for Klass and thought he could market it. Randi's challenge is safe as houses too as far as I know.

From Wikipedia:


In 1966, Klass made an offer that stood for the remaining thirty-nine years of his life. By 1974, the offer had changed slightly, to the following form:

• Klass agrees to pay to the second party the sum of $10,000 within thirty days after any of the following occur^{[citation needed]}:

(A) Any crashed spacecraft, or major piece of a spacecraft is found to be clearly of extraterrestrial origin by the United States National Academy of Sciences, or ( The National Academy of Sciences announces that it has examined other evidence which conclusively proves that Earth has been visited by extraterrestrial spacecraft in the 20th century, or © A bona fide extraterrestrial visitor, born on a celestial body other than the Earth, appears live before the General Assembly of the United Nations or on a national television program.

Gidday Psyche,

can you confirm what would constitute extraterrestrial as far as a resistor is concerned? i.e how could one prove this was brought to Earth from another planet?

As for Klass, at least Hynek was $1000 up on him from the MJ12 bet .
Looking at Klass' conditions I see a few problems...the first being in line with original question, how could one confirm with scientific certainty that a piece of material is of extraterrestrial origin? you cant! in the same way that even if proven of extraterrestrial origin this doesnt mean Earth has been visited! (it may have been picked up from the moon) although granted Earth to Moon in the grand scheme of distances is splitting hairs but at least it would keep Klass money safe...i.e. proof of origin doesnt prove visitation....


So I would agree with some previous posters that a body is needed...I would argue that even a craft may not be enough? (at what point in technology do we accept that it cannot be man made?)



Hello Kludge,

I see you asked for me to stick my head into this firing line

all I can say is that the £100k offer is ludicrous and even bordering insulting.

Let me try an analogy......its like me offering to anyone that can predict the weeks lottery numbers and prove they did so.....I will give them a £100 ($149 approx) prize.... hmmmm very tempting

So theres me with this piece of craft for 10 years now thinking I may only get £50 for it, but now this man has offered me £100k ..yipppeee....I will post it to him at once.

what do you think owning/having 100% proof of ET would be worth?

[Kludge808]

quillius, on 27 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

can you confirm what would constitute extraterrestrial as far as a resistor is concerned? i.e how could one prove this was brought to Earth from another planet?

Okay, I ain't Psyche and I don't even play him on the telly but I'm gonna take a shot anyway.

What we use for resistors now is far and beyond what was available around the beginning of the 20th century.  If someone from that era were to pick up a resistor as used now - metal film, for example - they'd think it some era-appropriate parallel to alien technology, definitely advanced beyond anything that could be produced at the time.  An SMD resistor would drive them into a mad frenzy even if they could identify its function.  Or maybe especially.  If we find some piece of technology that is far and beyond anything we can even imagine let alone reproduce, that's a good starting point.  It would be to us as that metal film or SMD resistor would be to someone a century ago.

The real problem comes in someone with no knowledge of technology identifying it as something that can't be reproduced here.  To him/her, it's just a piece of junk that needs to be deposited in the nearest bin.  Or used as a decoration in a flower arrangement or as a mantelpiece if it's pretty enough.  The same would be true of that resistor mentioned before.  Someone who had no grasp on technology would have just dropped it in a bin as junk lying around waiting to be binned.  Unfortunately folks like that outnumber those who do have a handle on technology - or enough of one to see that what they found was somehow special - by a vast margin.  As a result, unless it can be even indirectly identified with an alien craft of some order, the majority of the population wont know the difference.

But then, there are things like the piece of HV cable Psyche mentioned previously.  Non-alien tech has been misidentified by people unfamiliar with current technology and the FTBs latched onto it as "undeniable proof" of an alien presence.  This complicates things by adding chaff to the wheat that must be sorted through to get to that rare nugget, if one exists at all.  All it would take is one and, thus far, it hasn't made an appearance to anyone who is knowledgeable enough to know "it somehow ain't right."

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Hello Kludge,

Hello, my friend.

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I see you asked for me to stick my head into this firing line

Yep.  You're an investigator and one well respected by us skeptical types.  In fact, I believe we're on the same side of the fence but just see with different eyes.

Quote

what do you think owning/having 100% proof of ET would be worth?

A cure for my daughter.  A permanent one so she can again have a happy and healthy life.  Without that, it's just something to put on a shelf.  However, that's just me.  Going with those who'd be interested, to different people it would have different value and/or meaning.  Some would see it as a golden key to untold riches and others would be happy to donate it to whomever for analysis etc.  And some would destroy or at least hide it out of fear of some reprisal for even temporary possession whether real or, more likely, imagined.  I don't think there's an easy way to set a value on it.  How much is fifteen minutes of fame worth these days?

[psyche101]

quillius, on 27 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Gidday Psyche,

can you confirm what would constitute extraterrestrial as far as a resistor is concerned? i.e how could one prove this was brought to Earth from another planet?

As for Klass, at least Hynek was $1000 up on him from the MJ12 bet .
Looking at Klass' conditions I see a few problems...the first being in line with original question, how could one confirm with scientific certainty that a piece of material is of extraterrestrial origin? you cant! in the same way that even if proven of extraterrestrial origin this doesnt mean Earth has been visited! (it may have been picked up from the moon) although granted Earth to Moon in the grand scheme of distances is splitting hairs but at least it would keep Klass money safe...i.e. proof of origin doesnt prove visitation....


So I would agree with some previous posters that a body is needed...I would argue that even a craft may not be enough? (at what point in technology do we accept that it cannot be man made?)

Giddy Q

Been too long my friend.

Natural Abundance mate

Shh, Friedman I think you mean, but I did not say that lol.

LINK - Wikipedia:


In chemistry, natural abundance (NA) refers to the abundance of isotopes of a chemical element as naturally found on a planet. The relative atomic mass (a weighted average) of these isotopes is the atomic weight listed for the element in the periodic table. The abundance of an isotope varies from planet to planet, and even from place to place on the Earth, but remains relatively constant in time.
As an example, uranium has three naturally occurring isotopes: ²³⁸U, ²³⁵U and ²³⁴U. Their respective NA range from 99.2739 - 99.2752%, 0.7198 - 0.7202%, and 0.0050 - 0.0059%.^[1] For example, if 100,000 uranium atoms were analyzed, one would expect to find approximately 99,275 ²³⁸U atoms, 720 ²³⁵U atoms, and no more than 5 or 6 ²³⁴U atoms. This is because ²³⁸U is much more stable than ²³⁵U or ²³⁴U, as the half-life of each isotope reveals: 4.468×10⁹ years for ²³⁸U compared to 7.038×10⁸ years for ²³⁵U and 245,500 years for ²³⁴U. However, the natural abundance of a given isotope is also affected by the probability of its creation in nucleosynthesis (as in the case of samarium; radioactive ¹⁴⁷Sm and ¹⁴⁸Sm are much more abundant than stable ¹⁴⁴Sm) and by production of a given isotope by natural radioactive isotopes (as in the case of radiogenic isotopes of lead).

Isotopic ratios are easily acquired in a lab, not all that expensive either. This will determine 100% for sure if a resistor is an alien one. Life too has independent biosignatures. Finding life on say Europa does not particularly mean it is "alien"in the true sense of the word, that is if it originated here, and was transported to Europa perhaps by panspermia or similar, then it is not truly Alien.

quillius, on 27 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Hello Kludge,

I see you asked for me to stick my head into this firing line

all I can say is that the £100k offer is ludicrous and even bordering insulting.

Let me try an analogy......its like me offering to anyone that can predict the weeks lottery numbers and prove they did so.....I will give them a £100 ($149 approx) prize.... hmmmm very tempting

So theres me with this piece of craft for 10 years now thinking I may only get £50 for it, but now this man has offered me £100k ..yipppeee....I will post it to him at once.

what do you think owning/having 100% proof of ET would be worth?

But if you just hand over a piece and it is determined Alien, then you are in the ball park for the asking price on the rest of the "whatever it may be" (ray gun, spaceship, communicator or something)
Imagine that auction!

Cheers.

Edited by psyche101, 27 February 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[psyche101]

Kludge808, on 27 February 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

Ahhh, but the SDC (as defined in a previous post) chased down all those copies and eradicated them.  "They're everywhere!  They're everywhere!" (Envision Chicken Little with a new battle cry.)  Oh, and they silenced the recipients with their "Microwave Mind Blaster" so they are now babbling idiots and running for office all over the world.

LOL, so that's how they "Got to" Mr Lazar!!

Ya know, I am starting to see the fun in Bee's perspective All we need above is an experimental hologram, and boy howdy, we are cooking with gas

My step daughter had the little one over the weekend, one month early, but now my step daughter has a daughter, delivery was great, mum and bub doing very well.

Edited by psyche101, 27 February 2013 - 11:35 PM.

[psyche101]

Kludge808, on 27 February 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Do you have a better explanation for politicians and Paris Hilton?

I put up a Paris Hilton wallpaper in the office on my screen, all the girls got really wound up! I explained her as a poorly misunderstood girl who just needs someone to show her the way, and that a little understanding with her would go a long way. And deep down, I am sure she is a real sweetheart.

Damn it's fun watching the reactions

Edited by psyche101, 27 February 2013 - 11:37 PM.

[Kludge808]

psyche101, on 27 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

LOL, so that's how they "Got to" Mr Lazar!!

Yep.  Haven't heard a lot about Mr. Element 115 of late, have we.  He's got that chemical etc supply store up in Michigan and even there he got into trouble.  The saving grace is that he's got some pretty cool stuff and I may actually place an order or two.

Quote

Ya know, I am starting to see the fun in Bee's perspective All we need above is an experimental hologram, and boy howdy, we are cooking with gas

I've not seen Our Dear Miss Bee for a while.  Maybe I'm on the wrong threads.  How's she doing?

Quote

My step daughter had the little one over the weekend, one month early, but now my step daughter has a daughter, delivery was great, mum and bub doing very well.

And you're a (step-)grampa with a new granddaughter to spoil most outrageously.  And you nkow bloody well she'll have you twisted around her little finger in no time flat.

Edit to fix a mi-located quote thingie

Edited by Kludge808, 28 February 2013 - 02:10 AM.