48 replies to this topic

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Quote

democracy has been strengthened

Selectively; the way that the European parliament is able to impose its Policies to enforce Harmony (e.g. the unbelievably wasteful Agricultural policies and so forth) and to extort small countries in order to prop up the all-important Common Currency is hardly very democratic, though, is it; the EU itself is a profoundly undemocratic institution. The usual response of "If you don't like it you can vote them out" hardly applies in this case, does it..

[questionmark]

747400, on 14 October 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Selectively; the way that the European parliament is able to impose its Policies to enforce Harmony (e.g. the unbelievably wasteful Agricultural policies and so forth) and to extort small countries in order to prop up the all-important Common Currency is hardly very democratic, though, is it; the EU itself is a profoundly undemocratic institution. The usual response of "If you don't like it you can vote them out" hardly applies in this case, does it..

It is just as undemocratic as Westminster deciding a policy for all of Britain. After all what you got there are elected representatives. Now, if you don't like Westminster to decide heed the Scots) they want to quit Britain but remain in the EU... go figure). Or the Basques or the Catalonians or the Bavarians.

[TheLastLazyGun]

questionmark, on 12 October 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

It is pretty evident that the EU is a major peace forming organization in Europe.

It is NATO - fundly mainly by American and British taxpayers -  which has kept the peace in Europe for the last 60 years.

The EU has actually been remarkably inept at keeping the peace in Europe.  What did it do during the break-up of Yugoslavia, apart from stand back and watch the Srebenica massacre?

As protesters dressed as Nazis riot in an Athens ruled by Brussels stooges, giving the Nobel Peace Prize to the EU is beyond satire: http://www.dailymail...-EU-satire.html

[questionmark]

Nato kept the Russians out, but hardly did a thing to mitigate inner-European conflicts. The EU did.

[TheLastLazyGun]

questionmark, on 14 October 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

It is just as undemocratic as Westminster deciding a policy for all of Britain. After all what you got there are elected representatives. Now, if you don't like Westminster to decide heed the Scots) they want to quit Britain but remain in the EU... go figure). Or the Basques or the Catalonians or the Bavarians.

My reckoning is that most of the Scottish people want to stay in the UK but leave the EU.

[TheLastLazyGun]

questionmark, on 14 October 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Nato kept the Russians out, but hardly did a thing to mitigate inner-European conflicts. The EU did.

I'll say again: The EU has done NOTHING for peace in Europe.

If anything, its unpopular and undemocratic policies are causing much violence and conflict on the streets of cities such as Athens and Madrid.

[questionmark]

TheLastLazyGun, on 14 October 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

I'll say again: The EU has done NOTHING for peace in Europe.

If anything, its unpopular and undemocratic policies are causing much violence and conflict on the streets of cities such as Athens and Madrid.

A untruth repeated does not convert it into truth. That Germany and France pull on the same rope has done more for the peace in Europe than any Army ever could. And that is just one aspect of it.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

questionmark, on 14 October 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

A untruth repeated does not convert it into truth. That Germany and France pull on the same rope has done more for the peace in Europe than any Army ever could. And that is just one aspect of it.

... thereby accomplishing by means of economic extortion what they didn't manage to do by the sword, perhaps? Well, i suppose extortion is better than war, but wasn't it rather the presence of the USSR and Eastern Bloc on one side and NATO on the other that maintained peace for 40 years, and the EU has only come along and offered the benefits of membership once countries such as Yugoslavia had stopped figthing; it was hardly as if it was the EU that stopped Milosevic, was it?

[None of the above]

Loving the sour grapes from the anti EU brigade. Bring it people! It brightens my day that you are all so needled by this fantastic and worthy decision by the Nobel committee.

From the ruins and ashes of the second world war arose peace and co-operation. Thanks to the Glorious European Union.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

So do you really think that it was the EU that brought stability to Europe after 1945, particularly since it did not actually become as powerful as it is now until at least the 1970s, or is the Stalinist rhetoric merely an amusing exercise in irony?

[None of the above]

747400, on 15 October 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

So do you really think that it was the EU that brought stability to Europe after 1945, particularly since it did not actually become as powerful as it is now until at least the 1970s, or is the Stalinist rhetoric merely an amusing exercise in irony?

Stalinist Rhetoric?
ROTF!!!

But as to the Glorious European Union and this well deserved Nobel Peace prize, I can't say it better than the Nobel Committee in non-EU Norway said it themselves:

Atlantia, on 13 October 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

From the official Nobel prize website: http://www.nobelprize.org/

"The Nobel Peace Prize for 2012
The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2012 is to be awarded to the European Union (EU). The union and its forerunners have for over six decades contributed to the advancement of peace and reconciliation, democracy and human rights in Europe.
In the inter-war years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee made several awards to persons who were seeking reconciliation between Germany and France. Since 1945, that reconciliation has become a reality. The dreadful suffering in World War II demonstrated the need for a new Europe. Over a seventy-year period, Germany and France had fought three wars. Today war between Germany and France is unthinkable. This shows how, through well-aimed efforts and by building up mutual confidence, historical enemies can become close partners.
In the 1980s, Greece, Spain and Portugal joined the EU. The introduction of democracy was a condition for their membership. The fall of the Berlin Wall made EU membership possible for several Central and Eastern European countries, thereby opening a new era in European history. The division between East and West has to a large extent been brought to an end; democracy has been strengthened; many ethnically-based national conflicts have been settled.
The admission of Croatia as a member next year, the opening of membership negotiations with Montenegro, and the granting of candidate status to Serbia all strengthen the process of reconciliation in the Balkans. In the past decade, the possibility of EU membership for Turkey has also advanced democracy and human rights in that country.
The EU is currently undergoing grave economic difficulties and considerable social unrest. The Norwegian Nobel Committee wishes to focus on what it sees as the EU's most important result: the successful struggle for peace and reconciliation and for democracy and human rights. The stabilizing part played by the EU has helped to transform most of Europe from a continent of war to a continent of peace.
The work of the EU represents "fraternity between nations", and amounts to a form of the "peace congresses" to which Alfred Nobel refers as criteria for the Peace Prize in his 1895 will.
Oslo, 12 October 2012"

Edited by Atlantia, 15 October 2012 - 01:58 PM.

[Render]

Congratulations, Europe, on winning the Nobel Peace Price

Quote

To all my European friends -- from Portugal to Germany to Finland, and from Bulgaria to Slovenia to Ireland -- I'd just like to say: Nice job!
Who could possibly be more deserving of a peace prize? When your grandparents were kids, Europe had been wracked by 500 years of virtually uninterrupted warfare. Today, Europeans are mocked for their pacifistic ways. Wow. What a transformation.

In my 2009 book "Travel as a Political Act," I wrote:

For the EU's founders, money took a backseat to their primary motivation: peace. Even the biggest Euroskeptic recognizes that, in weaving together the economies of former enemies like France and Germany, everyone has become so interconnected that Europe will never again suffer devastation from a major war as they did twice in the last century. The French and the Germans still don't agree on most things. But now they've become too financially interdependent to take up arms over their differences. Minimizing the possibility of an intra-European war is the triumph of the EU.

When boots do hit the ground in a war, Europeans believe it's because they have failed to prevent it. They prefer endless diplomacy to once-in-a-while war. Europe's reluctance to go to war frustrates some Americans. I believe their relative pacifism is because Europeans know the reality of war, while most Americans do not. Of course, if you have a loved one who has fought or died in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam, you know what a war is. But as a society, the U.S. can't remember actually hosting a war. Europeans have told me that they believe Americans were more willing to use cluster bombs and napalm to pacify Fallujah because in the age of modern warfare, no American city has ever been wiped from existence like Coventry, Dresden, Rotterdam, or Warsaw. It's easier to feel detached when a war is something you watch on the nightly news, rather than something that killed your grandfather or destroyed your hometown.

http://www.chicagotr...0,354743.column

Edited by Render, 16 October 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[stevewinn]

TheLastLazyGun, on 14 October 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

It is NATO - fundly mainly by American and British taxpayers -  which has kept the peace in Europe for the last 60 years.

The EU has actually been remarkably inept at keeping the peace in Europe.  What did it do during the break-up of Yugoslavia, apart from stand back and watch the Srebenica massacre?

As protesters dressed as Nazis riot in an Athens ruled by Brussels stooges, giving the Nobel Peace Prize to the EU is beyond satire: http://www.dailymail...-EU-satire.html

When watching the news of the protest in Greece, - by the visit of german chancellor merkle i thought the image above of the people protesting in Nazi uniforms and Swastikas was damaging to the vision of a United Europe, has the situation within the EU got to the stage were people have lost their senses and feel the need to protest in such a way.  

The Glorious European Union as referred to by a member on here in sheer desperation to convince others including themselves the EU is working, yet no sign of improvement on rising unemployment across the EU, deepening economic crisis in Spain Greece Portugal, etc but dont fear 'they have a noble peace prize' so all is well. - truly makes me laugh. shows how desperate the situation as become when being awarded such as the noble prize is held as the pinnacle.

Edited by stevewinn, 16 October 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[None of the above]

stevewinn, on 16 October 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

When watching the news of the protest in Greece, - by the visit of german chancellor merkle i thought the image above of the people protesting in Nazi uniforms and Swastikas was damaging to the vision of a United Europe, has the situation within the EU got to the stage were people have lost their senses and feel the need to protest in such a way.  

The Glorious European Union as referred to by a member on here in sheer desperation to convince others including themselves the EU is working, yet no sign of improvement on rising unemployment across the EU, deepening economic crisis in Spain Greece Portugal, etc but dont fear 'they have a noble peace prize' so all is well. - truly makes me laugh. shows how desperate the situation as become when being awarded such as the noble prize is held as the pinnacle.

LOL, what DO those sour grapes taste like?
Bit bitter are they?

Hmmm, lap it up!

[stevewinn]

Atlantia, on 16 October 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

LOL, what DO those sour grapes taste like?
Bit bitter are they?

Hmmm, lap it up!

sour grapes! explain?