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Christians belong to Father God.


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#16    SpiritWriter

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:46 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 04 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:



The common grave. This term is also called "Hell."

Hell does not mean what the Catholic's teach. Back when Christianity was hijacked, the Roman Catholic Church would speak lies and use "Hell" as a concept to control the people through fear mongering. Although, Hell itself is just another term for the common grave.

The True God, is a God of love, not hate. The Bible states His name is Jehovah, and His son is Jesus Christ, who sacrificed Himself so that His precious blood could pay for our sins, and so that repentant sinners could be saved by the price Jesus paid. Jehovah hates the sin, but loves the sinner. He desires they all repent, as He wants as many saved as possible. Hell does not exist as the Catholic Church likes to teach.

The False God, the God of this wicked system of things, is a God of hate, and his name is Satan. In Heaven, he was known as Lucifer.

He does not have literal horns atop his head. Pictures that show this are symbolic. I believe it is supposed to be representative of arrogance and/or pride. I thought I should clear that up for you.

Horns in the Bible represent power, authority and rulership... kingdoms etc...

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#17    SpiritWriter

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:50 PM

View PostJamesThomas, on 04 November 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

What do your visions or beliefs reveal about those of us who are not Christians?

Why do you ask this?

And since you ask, can you also answer: What do your visions or beliefs reveal about those who are Christians?

also: someone has already answered your question from their perspective, how do you feel about that? Would you apply his/her answer to every Christian you saw walking down the street and think that that person felt the same way about you, or had that same perspective about every non-christian?


******

I think some people get offended when a Christian says - we are the children of God, or we belong to the father, saying in their mind - "Well who do you think we belong to then?" As if it is a negative thing that they were not included in the original statement.

But how can a Christian, or anyone else for that matter speak for you or put you in the same category as them without you also being offended? Whatever is your individual belief, that is where you stand. Don't look outside of yourself for validation or think that someone should side-step their religion in order to make you feel comfortable.

The truth is that certain things do apply just to Christians, and that is why they ARE Christians. Is it being rude or mean to disclude you from this statement: "We are the children of God?" - I may personally believe this, but everyone has their own mind and their own experiences, so in reality, you are whoever you believe yourself to be...  

If what I have said sounds offensive to you, I can assure you I didn't mean it that way. Religious topics, discussions, explanations are hard. They are so much deeper than what can be expressed through words and are very layered. We can say something that is TRUTH but is interpreted as an UNTRUTH and perhaps even become a stumbling block to wrestle with. But these questions, and discussions like these, impart small truths, and give our minds things to ponder. This leads to a greater truth that develops over time. I like the multiplexity of God and religion/etc... it encourages long-term search, and growth - FOR ALL WHO SEEK FOR IT, not just for one who belongs to a certain category. :) :)

Edited by SpiritWriter, 05 November 2012 - 05:34 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#18    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

View PostAmalthe, on 05 November 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

There is no Biblical evidence that "Sheol" which means grave should be translated as Hell, but i think Insomniac pointed out that fact.


All he said  on that matter was this

View PostInsaniac, on 04 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

The common grave. This term is also called "Hell."


Edited by Beckys_Mom, 05 November 2012 - 05:40 PM.

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#19    SpiritWriter

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:01 PM

View PostAmalthe, on 05 November 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:



I cannot speak on behalf of Insaniac to explain what he meant, but i can tell you that in Bible, there are two terms that are translated as Hell:

"Sheol", translated correctly as grave, which is mentioned on several occasions as a place where person goes after death, in order to await Judgement, and what is best described as state of dreamless sleep,
"Gehenna", translated correctly as a "burning place", which was a desolate land south of Jerusalem, where garbage was burned, and which was mentioned where souls of the wicked will be thrown to burn.

Eternity in both cases is not mentioned, except in a line "eternal fires of gehenna" but there is no evidence that souls of wicked will burn forever.

I like what you had to say, but just for arguments sake I have listed some verses that do talk about eternal punishment:

Mt 25:46 - “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Mt 18:8 - If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Mk 3:29 - But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

2 Thess 1:9 - They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

Heb 6:2 - instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

Jude 7 - In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Weeping (or wailing) and Gnashing of Teeth are mentioned here: Mt 8:12, Mt 13:42, Mt 13:50, Mt 22:13, Mt 24:51, Mt 25:30 and Luke 13:28

there are 54 mentionings of the word "hell" in the KJV

0 results when using "eternal" and "hell"

1 result when using "eternal" and "fire"

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (this was mentioned above)

and 8 results when using the keywords "hell" and "fire":

# Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

# Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

# Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

# Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

# Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

# Mark 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

# James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

# Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.



Edited by SpiritWriter, 05 November 2012 - 06:15 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#20    notforgotten

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

View PostAmalthe, on 05 November 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

I cannot speak on behalf of Insaniac to explain what he meant, but i can tell you that in Bible, there are two terms that are translated as Hell:

"Sheol", translated correctly as grave, which is mentioned on several occasions as a place where person goes after death, in order to await Judgement, and what is best described as state of dreamless sleep,
"Gehenna", translated correctly as a "burning place", which was a desolate land south of Jerusalem, where garbage was burned, and which was mentioned where souls of the wicked will be thrown to burn.

Eternity in both cases is not mentioned, except in a line "eternal fires of gehenna" but there is no evidence that souls of wicked will burn forever.
To clear a few things up about hell. Hell is not a place. The Catholic dictionary, "Hell: The state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed, reserved for those who refuse by their own free choice to believe and be converted from sin, even to the end of their lives." Hell is a state or condition of being without god! We are evil and wicked for all of eternity without God. Evil spirits are in a state of hell.


#21    JamesThomas

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:47 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 05 November 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Why do you ask this?

I asked it, to see if a different and more positive response might arise than any received before. Didn't happen.

One could easily image a simple-minded human king who rewarded those subjects who spoke lovingly of him, and who punished or deemed to death those who did not. It's simply the weakness of a tiny human ego that is painfully limited in its ability to express any purer form of kindness and love. What difference is there between this human king, and the god found in the pages of the Bible? There is none.

Certainly, a God with the intelligence and love to create all the unspeakable wonders of life and universe, is infinitely beyond the confines of all the gods and religious ideas ever created by the feeble human mind. But though we have eyes, we can not see or even image a God so perfect and loving as to embrace everything and everyone as His children.

Damn sad situation, if you ask me.

"Every man’s world picture is and always remains a construct of his mind, and cannot be proved to have any other existence." -- Erwin Schrödinger

#22    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

I love how people worship a Hebrew god for no discernible reason.

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#23    JamesThomas

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 05 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

I love how people worship a Hebrew god for no discernible reason.

Yes, why, in 2012, do we continue to worship an anthropomorphic deity of ancient desert warring tribesmen from the bronze age?

Actually. I know why. Because it feeds our tiny little ego's. The old man-made gods always had their favorites and their enemies. People, even today, want to be on the wining side. Just look at sports. Religion is no different.

Just think what an ego booster it is to think: I'm good, your bad. I'm white, your black. I'm rich (in the spirit, or money), your poor. I belong to the Father God, you don't. I'm very special, your screwed. etc.etc. Religion feeds the worst disease of mankind, and that is the ugly and warped egocentricity within us that separates us from each-other and is the cause of all wars and all mans inhumanity to woman and man.

Like i said: It's a damn sad situation.

God forgive us, for we know not what we do.

"Every man’s world picture is and always remains a construct of his mind, and cannot be proved to have any other existence." -- Erwin Schrödinger

#24    Etu Malku

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:14 AM

View PostInsaniac, on 04 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

The True God, is a God of love, not hate. The Bible states His name is Jehovah, and His son is Jesus Christ, who sacrificed Himself so that His precious blood could pay for our sins . . .
Odd, then why are we all still born into Sin? How moronic!

Quote

The False God, the God of this wicked system of things, is a God of hate, and his name is Satan. In Heaven, he was known as Lucifer.
Make no mistake, when I read anything this accusing of Lucifer or Satan, I will chime in.
I know of no other eviler god than the Abrahamic god, death permeates the Christian bible and the hands washed in this blood is its god.

Satan is a personification of the Judaic word al-satan or ha-satan (who borrowed it from the Persians' Shaiten) meaning Adversary. Shaiten did not become Satan until much later where Jewish sects / tribes particularly the Essenes began referring to anyone not an Essene as the Shaiten. Still further on the Roman Catholic Church decided it was time to personify Shaiten into Satan and have Him become the scapegoat for all evil in the Christian world.

Lucifer is not an Adversary as the word Satan (Shaiten) describes
Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' in other words Lux Lucis (Lucifer) is gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge.
Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and you will not die if you eat of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die.
Lucifer brought us the Truth and our Free Will, shows us the way to be a God ourselves

Quote

He does not have literal horns atop his head. Pictures that show this are symbolic. I believe it is supposed to be representative of arrogance and/or pride. I thought I should clear that up for you.
The horns atop of Satan is one of the many Pagan attributes that the Church used to demonize any and all Pagan religion. These horns are the same horns of several older religious deities from Egypt and Mesopotamia, both of which were "public enemy #1" in the face of this new religion.

Understand the Abrahamic religions are just one more chapter in the religions of Mankind, they certainly are not the most original, we will see how long they last in comparison to others that have lasted thousands of years, and they are in my opinion an abomination of Spiritual Freedom and in need of eradication towards World Peace.

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#25    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:57 AM

View PostJamesThomas, on 06 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Yes, why, in 2012, do we continue to worship an anthropomorphic deity of ancient desert warring tribesmen from the bronze age?

Actually. I know why. Because it feeds our tiny little ego's. The old man-made gods always had their favorites and their enemies. People, even today, want to be on the wining side. Just look at sports. Religion is no different.

Just think what an ego booster it is to think: I'm good, your bad. I'm white, your black. I'm rich (in the spirit, or money), your poor. I belong to the Father God, you don't. I'm very special, your screwed. etc.etc. Religion feeds the worst disease of mankind, and that is the ugly and warped egocentricity within us that separates us from each-other and is the cause of all wars and all mans inhumanity to woman and man.

Like i said: It's a damn sad situation.

God forgive us, for we know not what we do.

As much as I loathe to admit it, religion does serve three important roles in any culture. Intellectual, psychological, and sociological.
It explains, comforts and conforms. Though it is more often wrong in its assumptions and explanations, I think that ancient cultures needed these norms to be present in their cultures to advance the way that they did. There will always be a function for religion in these aspects.
I mean religion in the broadest sense. From charms to churches, shamans to spiritualists. Not just in a ecclesiastical way.

"A cat has nine lives. For three he plays, for three he strays, and for the last three he stays."


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#26    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:00 AM

View PostEtu Malku, on 06 November 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Understand the Abrahamic religions are just one more chapter in the religions of Mankind, they certainly are not the most original,

That's an understatement, considering how much the Abrahamic faiths "borrowed" from Zoroastrianism.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 06 November 2012 - 02:00 AM.

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#27    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:43 AM

View PostInsaniac, on 04 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

He does not have literal horns atop his head. Pictures that show this are symbolic. I believe it is supposed to be representative of arrogance and/or pride. I thought I should clear that up for you.

Ever hear of the horned god?  It's about http://en.wikipedia....xual_dimorphism, or sexual selection, the female to engage is fought over by males, the "most powerful" wins the right to mate with the female, the horns' represent the power of the male.

The seventh satanic statement:

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

That statement is from a book that is way newer than the old times, but pretty much summarizes what the horns mean, the biggest baddest meanest mother sucker supposedly.

Personally I find people like that to be repulsive.

Edited by HavocWing, 06 November 2012 - 02:51 AM.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
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#28    Jinxdom

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:59 AM

View PostEtu Malku, on 06 November 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Odd, then why are we all still born into Sin? How moronic!

Want the short answer or long answer? Basically because there is no free-will involved in our part, we induce pain on our mother, who has no choice in the matter.  It's basically the thing that you say Lucifer is trying to also teach. :yes:  Free-will and choice are good.


#29    Amalthe

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:06 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 05 November 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

I like what you had to say, but just for arguments sake I have listed some verses that do talk about eternal punishment:

Mt 25:46 - “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

...


# Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


I am not arguing that the fire that will burn after the Judgement is eternal, for fire must be a constant reminder of what rebellion of Lucifer has brought upon Earth. I'm just saying that there's a couple of passages in Revelation like 20:14 where it is explicitly said that after Judgement, wicked will die for second time, and that is eternal punishment, deletion from existance. It would make no logical sense to have same ongoing torturing punishment for all wicked people, because some have sinned more, some have sinned less, so the justfull punishment should be more severe for some, and less for others, and that actually means for how long wil soul burn before it burns out, so more wicked men will burn longer. But if you believe in eternal suffering in lake of fire, it is the same eternal punishment for all. God has no reason to torture a soul forever when He can just end its existance.

Edited by Amalthe, 06 November 2012 - 08:07 AM.


#30    Amalthe

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:20 AM

View PostEtu Malku, on 06 November 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

...

Understand the Abrahamic religions are just one more chapter in the religions of Mankind, they certainly are not the most original, we will see how long they last in comparison to others that have lasted thousands of years, and they are in my opinion an abomination of Spiritual Freedom and in need of eradication towards World Peace.

It will then not be surprising for you to see next step of evolution of mankind towards World Peace, where most of poplulation of Earth will be eradicated by the Elite as you said. You're ok with that? Even if you're not part of the Elite?
I understand you have firm faith in your God, and that's fine by me, as long as you base your faith on logical thinking. However, did you ever think about consequences of Law of Freedom that you believe in? For you are allowed to do whatever you want, yes? So where does your Freedom end in relation to other human being? Are you Free to govern and rule weaker people just because you're smarter? Or in reverse, if there is stronger person than you, is he allowed to govern and command you as he pleases, just because he is stronger? So at the end it means that result of the Luciferian doctrine "Do as you will"  is that only the most powerfull being should command all lesser beings? Because there is no law that limits most powerfull, is that correct?





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