566 replies to this topic

[1963]

JimOberg, on 05 November 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

Good lead, let's follow it up later.... via www.jamesoberg.com

Hi Jim,..well, it seems that the Brad Steiger/Joan Whritenour book [Flying Saucers are Hostile. 1967] is not the origin of the quote after all!
Because though it does contain the quote that has been attributed to 'Wernher Von Braun', ...when I contacted  Brad Steiger himself and asked about the the history of the quote, he sent me this reply...


Brad Steiger






"Hi, Alex, you are not pestering. I wish I could be of more help. I wrote that book with Joan 55 years ago. She did the research for the book, and she had several sources for the quote. It was in wide circulation at that time. I have moved five times since 1959. Each time, the files thin out and some must be left behind. Best of success in all of your research."


And from this 'short but clear' reply, I assume that either  Joan has copied the quote from a different source, ie. the as-of-yet unknown 'west german newspaper' that Von Braun is alleged to have

" told West German newspapers that a 1958 malfunction of a US Juno II rocket had been "deflected" off-course by an unnamed and presumably extraterrestrial source."

...or maybe it was 'Joan' that has misquoted the article in the '1959 Neues Europa'  that your friend found for you?..[by the way Jim, could you provide me with the link for that archived copy...just to tie up loose ends?]
I am not quite done with this thing though..[i'm still searching for the articles from the '1958 West German newspapers' to see if there could still be something to the story?]...but I will say that it is starting to look like Tim Good has reproduced the 'quote' from Brad and Joan's book (Flying Saucers Are Hostile), and then Clark C McClelland has then gone and pilfered the publicity-rights in a bid to boost his public stature!...But then..I could be totally wrong?


Cheers.

[synchronomy]

1963, on 08 November 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

"
And from this 'short but clear' reply, I assume that either  Joan has copied the quote from a different source, ie. the as-of-yet unknown 'west german newspaper' that Von Braun is alleged to have

" told West German newspapers that a 1958 malfunction of a US Juno II rocket had been "deflected" off-course by an unnamed and presumably extraterrestrial source."


Cheers.

When I see this reference to a Von Braun quote (and it seems to take on a few similar forms from the varying sources), I wonder if Von Braun was simple referring to an energy or force which had not yet been fully understood which originated in outer space...hence extraterrestrial.  The fact that there is reference to extraterrestrial, doesn't necessarily mean he was implying that living entities or their vehicles were responsible...just that some aspect of the orbital mechanics were not understood.

Edited by synchronomy, 08 November 2012 - 02:03 AM.

[1963]

synchronomy, on 08 November 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

When I see this reference to a Von Braun quote (and it seems to take on a few similar forms from the varying sources), I wonder if Von Braun was simple referring to an energy or force which had not yet been fully understood which originated in outer space...hence extraterrestrial.  The fact that there is reference to extraterrestrial, doesn't necessarily mean he was implying that living entities or their vehicles were responsible...just that some aspect of the orbital mechanics were not understood.

Yes this is possible and has also occurred to me synch!...But then, if you read the quote where he says .."we are now engaged in entering into contact with these powers"..I find it a little too cryptic to easily accept that he is speaking metaphorically about some natural force?...And the point of trying to separate 'fact from myth' on this often cited quote is that I have seen the verified quote in which Von Braun comprehensively dismisses the notion of extraterrestrial visitation,...and then also , many more references to the great scientist's belief and participation in the suppression of public-knowledge on the subject.
And being that the man was in a prime position to 'know the truth'of the matter...if this 'quote' turned out to be authentically attributed to him...then imho, it would be a pretty big deal in the quest for knowledge on the ETH....So either way,..I would like to know if he actually made the statement or not.


Cheers.

[synchronomy]

1963, on 08 November 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

Yes this is possible and has also occurred to me synch!...But then, if you read the quote where he says .."we are now engaged in entering into contact with these powers"..I find it a little too cryptic to easily accept that he is speaking metaphorically about some natural force?...And the point of trying to separate 'fact from myth' on this often cited quote is that I have seen the verified quote in which Von Braun comprehensively dismisses the notion of extraterrestrial visitation,...and then also , many more references to the great scientist's belief and participation in the suppression of public-knowledge on the subject.
And being that the man was in a prime position to 'know the truth'of the matter...if this 'quote' turned out to be authentically attributed to him...then imho, it would be a pretty big deal in the quest for knowledge on the ETH....So either way,..I would like to know if he actually made the statement or not.


Cheers.

Yes, I would like something conclusive regarding his apparent statements.
I often wonder, if he didn't deliberately use double entendre when referring to the possibility of ET existence, in order to spark interest but at the same time maintain his allegiance to secrecy.
I often feel that way about many things Carl Sagan said.  The quote in my signature is a perfect example of that.

[artsy]

well, I'm a little late to this site that is talking about my dad, wendell welling.  and bashing gordon cooper.  somewhat interesting that grown men try to one up each other.
.  bless gordon's heart.  he didn't write down his memories of northern utah quite soon enough, and got a few facts wrong.  but he was excited and meant well, I think.  I don't know how he found out about my dad's prototype saucers, but by the time he found us, my dad was long gone....and yes my husband scott was trying to continue with the plans of the flying saucers, but didn't understand what wendell had in mind.  scott has since passed away also at an early age.  the saucers have been divvied out to relatives, and though people ask to look at the plans, I don't think they are monumental or profound technology.  wendell and 3 others saw a flying saucer at close range in '59.  wendell didn't believe in them until that moment! (his hired hand also saw one, later on, land on the wheat farm 10 miles to the north) he looked hard and long and said he didn't dare look away, because it blended in with the sky so much (not reflective) he was afraid he wouldn't be able to see it again if he did look away.  he studied every bit of it for the short amount of time it hovered within a block of the men in montpelier, idaho.  He was 42 at the time and spent the rest of his short life trying to replicate it and convince others of the existence of UFOs.  his adult co-sighters denied the sighting, because not many believed in '59, and they were respected citizens.  then later in their lives apologized to scott as scott found them, wanting to know their stories,..they were embarrassed that they were so chicken to admit it back in '59, and understood why wendell felt betrayed.  wendell was never a chicken, and got quite a reputation.  when anyone in the area had a sighting, they'd run to our door because they knew my dad would believe them and their ghost white faces.   when he died people came out of the woodwork saying how much they'd helped him with his prototypes (most of their 'help' was being awestruck & staring as my dad explained) and if anything came of the saucers, they wanted their share.   another good reason not to pursue development.
so no, the plans were never sold to foreign countries, and no there's no gold mine of saucers in some northern utah shed.  gordon didn't hold any controls and fly a prototype around a warehouse for 10 min.  he did watch a large fiberglass prototype on a scale lifting 12 times it own weight when it was revved up....that's it.  oh, he also ate watermelon with us.  then he didn't contact us to see if the story was right, or that he was publishing info on us.  we found out about it quite by accident.  there you go...bash that.  ha ha.

[psyche101]

That's interesting artsy, bash it? Is that a challenge?

WhatI do know if Cooper says in this book:

The only sound was from the remote generator. Cooper was amazed, he commented:

"Boy, I thought, we've been going the wrong way all these years with winged aircraft."

LINK

But he never gave Wendell the right exposure, even though he would have the connections, or make more money than Bill Gates by marketing this design. Curious that he would be happy to leave something so amazing to a novel, and not to make squilions on, or even to benefit mankind isn't it? Shame he not still with us, what an interesting question that would be.

[coolguy]

Thanks for posting that.i will get that book.

[JimOberg]

Thanks for this new insight, let me ponder it!!

[JimOberg]

artsy, on 19 March 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

gordon didn't hold any controls and fly a prototype around a warehouse for 10 min.  he did watch a large fiberglass prototype on a scale lifting 12 times it own weight when it was revved up....

Where did he claim he flew it? In his book?

[JimOberg]

JimOberg, on 19 March 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

Where did he claim he flew it? In his book?

I looked through my copy of 'Leap of Faith' last night and couldn't find it. Any help?

[DONTEATUS]

Still quite the unique Man G.Cooper ! Maybe there are things in this world we know not of !

[Captain Zim]

psyche101, on 19 March 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

That's interesting artsy, bash it? Is that a challenge?

WhatI do know if Cooper says in this book:

The only sound was from the remote generator. Cooper was amazed, he commented:

"Boy, I thought, we've been going the wrong way all these years with winged aircraft."

LINK

But he never gave Wendell the right exposure, even though he would have the connections, or make more money than Bill Gates by marketing this design. Curious that he would be happy to leave something so amazing to a novel, and not to make squilions on, or even to benefit mankind isn't it? Shame he not still with us, what an interesting question that would be.

Been there, done that.



See http://en.wikipedia....da_VZ-9_Avrocar for more. Not the spectacular failure of the Viper-engined test stand prototype. Symptomatic of a key problem with all such saucer designs: a centrally mounted engine suffers from a severe look of cooling airflow.

Then there's all the other designs, like the Coanda effect saucers (from the description it sounds like a classic Coanda effect). None of the people making Coanda saucers have made squillions. Newer and better designs for aircraft have been made over the years. The Americans are notoriously conservative for aircraft design, however, and anything that doesn't have the elevators at the back is suspect. Let alone a circular flying wing! Heaven forbid. The actual development for new aircraft types is extremely long and complex. The 787 is probably the prime example of this. Also, I suspect a lot of these radical designs have the equivalent of a "jesus nut" like helicopters have (it breaks and you're going to see Jesus right NOW). Flying wings have notorious pitch control problems, only solved with the advent of fly-by-wire computer assisted flight control (and there's your jesus nut... although many modern aircraft have that now as witnessed by the Air France tragedy). Add in the fact that airports are not equipped to handle such radically different aircraft... and no investors are interested. Militaries are only interested in new body types for stealth or agility purposes. Fuel economy and performance doesn't matter so much.

A circular wing might be great for hovering, but it's not much cop for actually flying long distances. Our traditional aircraft do that pretty well. What he saw may well have been some kind of top secret saucer program which ran counter to the known (and defunct) ARO saucer. Though why the US gubbmint would be flying such a thing low over some farmland where it could easily crash and questions be asked is beyond me. The lack of windows is interesting though, as is the lack of any riveted construction common at the time. I'm quite sure Wellden would have noticed such a detail.

Edited by Captain Zim, 20 March 2013 - 08:04 AM.