275 replies to this topic

[F3SS]

Stellar, on 29 January 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Inform them? How? By telling them that their beliefs are wrong?

People have a fundamental disagreement on whether gun control is considered an infringement of the 2nd. Hell, people have a fundamental disagreement on whether the 2nd should even be in the constitution. Problem is, one side calls the other "sheeple" who need to be "informed". How would you "inform" them, Fess?

How? I don't know. I'm just one guy. In the event that I could inform them, whoever they are, or in the event that they became informed the only thing I wish of them is to make an educated decision or at least a decision based on the best abilities of their cognative skills  on where they stand. As Aztek said, a sheeple isn't merely one that disagrees with me or us. You've got us pegged all wrong.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

No, the "sheeple" are those that blindly agree with whoever is in power/a position of authority.
Most of us "gun control nuts" are the ones who look at the 2nd Amendment and see "well regulated militia" as being the main clause, while Fess and the others see the "shall not be infringed" as the main clause.

[F3SS]

Well if citizens were called to arms by the state to form a militia where would all the arms come from? Right, the citizens. So if the state needs a militia on the quick the they'll need to gear up before they can mount up. That's why the right shall not be infringed.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

-Mr_Fess-, on 30 January 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

Well if citizens were called to arms by the state to form a militia where would all the arms come from? Right, the citizens. So if the state needs a militia on the quick the they'll need to gear up before they can mount up. That's why the right shall not be infringed.

It's rather simple (as I did it myself) to interpret the Second Amendment as being "if you want to own a gun, be in a militia".

[AsteroidX]

Its as easy as opening a phone book...

http://constitution.org/mil/mil_us.htm

But the 2nd Amendment says no such thing as...

Quote

"if you want to own a gun, be in a militia".

It actually says

Quote

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Hats lets itleast quote it correctly.

[F3SS]

AsteroidX, on 30 January 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

Its as easy as opening a phone book...

http://constitution.org/mil/mil_us.htm

But the 2nd Amendment says no such thing as...

It actually says


Hats lets itleast quote it correctly.

Right. It means what I said. The people are to be the militia when one is formed. And don't tell me that's what the National Guard is for now. They have been sucked into the system. I'm not saying our military would side with true and exposed tyranny but it is bestowed upon US citizens not to take that chance. Therefore we must be ready to be the driving force and it will be our responsibility to stock up our own supplies from food to tents to guns. Seriously, in such a scenario where else should we expect help and supplies to come from besides eachother?

[ninjadude]

preacherman76, on 29 January 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

No, you are a coward because you have admited that no matter what unconstitutional violations your government commits you wont express any level of resistance. No one asked you to shoot anyone.

Preacher, I have said no such thing. I even said the poster could protest his idea of unconstitutional violations all he wanted. And use the ballot box. Your support of the 2nd amendment as a way to overthrow the government is where I would not go.

Edited by ninjadude, 30 January 2013 - 03:50 AM.

[ninjadude]

Yamato, on 29 January 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

I don't think ninjadude is capable of providing an example of government doing anything that's unconstitutional.

The problem is that until the issue is decided, it's nothing more than your opinion. Sure I think lots of stuff is unconstitutional. FISA, Guantanamo, the Iraq war, GWB's 2000 election, prayer and religion in schools, DOMA, etc.

[ninjadude]

Uncle Sam, on 29 January 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

kneel before a corrupt government.  defending the constitution

the problem is that you think you're right. Democracy or in our case, representative government means that one person doesn't decide what is constitutional or corrupt.

[ninjadude]

-Mr_Fess-, on 30 January 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

it will be our responsibility to stock up our own supplies from food to tents to guns.

do you seriously not see how paranoid this is?

[acidhead]

ninjadude, on 30 January 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

do you seriously not see how paranoid this is?

No offense....

You see paranoid because you're gullible.  You trust the GOV too much.  It kills indiscriminately abroad everyday.  It couldn't possible ever turn on you.

[F3SS]

ninjadude, on 30 January 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

do you seriously not see how paranoid this is?

Call it what you will but in such a scenario this is how things will happen. It's just foresight. If you really pay attention to these conversations you'd know that I haven't called for revolution. You'd know that I hope that day doesn't happen. You should know that there may come a day when that needs to happen. Neither of us know when but the rules of history, governments and mankind dictate that it will. Maybe not in our lifetimes or our grandchildrens but it will come. More than anything these conversations are mostly US reminding ourselves and informing others of who is ultimately in charge of this nation. It is something everyone needs to know about.
Relax though. I don't even have a gun so how serious about near future revolution can I be? Though tensions are high and division is sharp so don't fool yourself into thinking it is impossible in our lives.

[acidhead]

besides.... the american GOV is bankrupt... not officially, but they're are by definition bankrupt.  They can't pay their bills.  They've over leveraged their taxpayer funded life style.  There is some leverage though.... the US$.  This is the reason the GOV cons its citizens into killing abroad daily.  If the killing stops, the US$ crashes overnight.  Take your pick.

Edited by acidhead, 30 January 2013 - 04:20 AM.

[Uncle Sam]

Wearer of Hats, on 30 January 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

It's rather simple (as I did it myself) to interpret the Second Amendment as being "if you want to own a gun, be in a militia".

The coma after the militia isn't too caught your breath, it is to separate two subject in one amendment. Let me try to state it better than our founding fathers did. We the people have the right to form a militia, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed for it is necessary for a free state.. I don't understand where in the damn sentence that they wrote, the liberals and democrats ****ed up. The constitution was designed to limit the government, a gift to the people from our founding fathers. It is not designed to limit us, control us, the people. Get it through your thick head.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 30 January 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[acidhead]

Banning assault rifles Law essentially says:  If the individual chooses to shoot an assault rifle then the individual must join the GOV military.