423 replies to this topic

[Detective Mystery 2013]

Tesla II, on 22 February 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

I cannot prove any ETV visit nor military project both are strickly classified fields of research, we do get leaks here and there but not all are true mostly false. But for now black triangle is very true in my opinion i based that on history of the initial idea and minds behind it.

I take it that you believe that the mysterious craft are either terrestrial or extraterrestrial. How do you differentiate them? We might have secret technology that can do "impossible" things. This goes beyond spacecraft. It once seemed impossible to put a man on the moon. Inventions, from the telegraph to the internet, once seemed to be fantasies. Cloning and nanotechnology were found only in science fiction. Geniuses might have developed craft that were capable of performing maneuvers limited to our conceptions of huge black triangles engineered by aliens.

[theSOURCE]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 23 February 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

I know and trust the witnesses. I don't need a laboratory experiment to believe them. I don't need physical evidence. In fact, it's nigh impossible to have such. I can't present dissipated "clouds" or "smoke" to an expert so that he can write a paper for a scientific journal. As a rule, I doubt such stories. This is an exception.

Belief should not be simply good enough for you. That's an unfortunate stance to take in regards to claims of the paranormal. The only way to find answers is to ask questions, yet you seem reluctant to do so. Why? Are you concerned that the people you spoke with will think you're calling them liars if you try to investigate further? Or did you already believe in demonic possessions and simply found an incident that comfortably reaffirmed that belief? Whatever the reason is, it looks as if you've already made your choice and closed off your mind to any other possibilities.

Quote

Credible witnesses can substitute for investigations that may not be possible to accomplish.

No disrespect intended, but you are mistaken. The only way to find the truth to any subject is to investigate it from any and all possible angles. No matter how credible a witness may be, without corroborating evidence their statement is only hearsay.

You need to look deeper into this incident if you are truly curious. You can start by talking with the people involved and pay close attention to both similarities and discrepancies in their accounts of what took place.

Without being too intrusive you can try to find out if the man who claims he was possessed has a history of mental illness or partakes in theatrics for the sake of getting attention.

You can speak with the parson and try to find out if this is the only instance in which he witnessed something like this. If he has had other similar experiences then you should compare the details of those with this one.

Try to find out if anyone took any pictures (I realize this happened in a church, but these days there's always someone willing to take a picture regardless of where they are).

You can also look into the history of the church itself and try to find out if something like this has happened there before.

There are many ways this can be investigated without having to rely on testimony alone. The list above is just a starting point. The only other suggestion I have is to start out with an open mind, and not begin by being biased one way or another.

BTW, thank your for you polite replies. It makes for a pleasant discussion.

Edited by theSOURCE, 24 February 2013 - 05:18 AM.

[Esoteric Toad]

Demonic or alien possession should, by most accounts, be the easiest of all supposed paranormal events to prove. Based on claims I have read there seems to be a complete lack of interest in doing so. I believe that if recorded properly the amazing claims would vanish quicker than all other "proof" that demons or aliens exist.... which by any verifiable way is none. Sort of like Bigfoot DNA.

Edited by Esoteric Toad, 24 February 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Tesla II]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 23 February 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

I take it that you believe that the mysterious craft are either terrestrial or extraterrestrial. How do you differentiate them? We might have secret technology that can do "impossible" things. This goes beyond spacecraft. It once seemed impossible to put a man on the moon. Inventions, from the telegraph to the internet, once seemed to be fantasies. Cloning and nanotechnology were found only in science fiction. Geniuses might have developed craft that were capable of performing maneuvers limited to our conceptions of huge black triangles engineered by aliens.

Well from all what i know the triangle shaped crafts are most likely from NRO and their companions, there is lots of darkness with agenices like NRO , most saucer like crafts back in 60-70s were too..Predecessor to now final stage of that project the triangle. Maybe some saucers were ETVs but i think people like us couldnt make a diffrence, but i think some might have been ETVs they came to "visit" our planet just for a short period of time, in times of Abomb testing... just for curiosity, We arent getting any visitation now and probably wont get any until next huge energy emission from a weapon or transmission of some kind.

And like you said what we have done so far in past, even from times of nazi germany where the teams of 6 scientists actually made scifi things in years of 1941-1946, which were later, 10 years later, marked as Science fiction by hollywood and various comic creators.

So by now we should have been on another planet and have very very advanced technology but to me it seems it stopped in direction of spaceflight.. At least so they want us to think... They had that unmanned space shuttle long before drones came out... So what were they doing? I dont know but they've done something and probably still doing. Just for sake of speculation it could be doing supply missions to that craft..

[Arpee]

Yes, [some] aliens are demons and so are humans. Like attracts like.

[Rlyeh]

Why does it have to be demons? Demons already get blamed for enough. Why not choose a different mythology? Maybe aliens are really olympians from Mount Olympus.

[LuisSmith515]

some may be,but at what point? I believe there's a line for what we consider a demon if the ones to write the bible where accurate it's obviously aliens that play as god.Soo many accounts of people getting taken in the sky by god Jesus was lifted and taken to heaven ya for some the fact of demons spiritual Beens and angels been spiritual and all are an assumption of opinion of the writers unless told to be written as so by aliens,but if for assumption of opinion they couldn't explain it at the time with their limited explanations.Now who really are considered the aliens in my opinion the devil is not bad,but broke a rule for giving us knowledge therefore considered a demon along the ones that helped them,but there's no full angel nor demon for it's like saying there's no full good person nor bad and that's obviously credible however it's common sense they're divine yet   there shouldn't be mistakes therefore this same alien race put some in the demon category sadly because contributing in our intelligence.

[Detective Mystery 2013]

theSOURCE, on 24 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Belief should not be simply good enough for you. That's an unfortunate stance to take in regards to claims of the paranormal. The only way to find answers is to ask questions, yet you seem reluctant to do so. Why? Are you concerned that the people you spoke with will think you're calling them liars if you try to investigate further? Or did you already believe in demonic possessions and simply found an incident that comfortably reaffirmed that belief? Whatever the reason is, it looks as if you've already made your choice and closed off your mind to any other possibilities.



No disrespect intended, but you are mistaken. The only way to find the truth to any subject is to investigate it from any and all possible angles. No matter how credible a witness may be, without corroborating evidence their statement is only hearsay.

You need to look deeper into this incident if you are truly curious. You can start by talking with the people involved and pay close attention to both similarities and discrepancies in their accounts of what took place.

Without being too intrusive you can try to find out if the man who claims he was possessed has a history of mental illness or partakes in theatrics for the sake of getting attention.

You can speak with the parson and try to find out if this is the only instance in which he witnessed something like this. If he has had other similar experiences then you should compare the details of those with this one.

Try to find out if anyone took any pictures (I realize this happened in a church, but these days there's always someone willing to take a picture regardless of where they are).

You can also look into the history of the church itself and try to find out if something like this has happened there before.

There are many ways this can be investigated without having to rely on testimony alone. The list above is just a starting point. The only other suggestion I have is to start out with an open mind, and not begin by being biased one way or another.

BTW, thank your for you polite replies. It makes for a pleasant discussion.

I already did what you suggested when I talked with witnesses. You said that wasn't enough to substantiate the event, but you recommended interviewing more people who witnessed the event. That seemingly was a contradiction, but it could be that I misinterpreted you. Why would more first-hand accounts make the event more believable and palatable to hardened skeptics? The bottom line is that I believed the pastor and his daughter because they were honest and open, and I saw confirmatory body language when they talked about the exorcism. Neither witness had mental problems. They also described events that closed out any variation of misinterpretations by the people who witnessed the events. There were no audio or video recordings. There were no photographs, and there certainly were no caught, catalogued entities to be sent to an evidence lab. I met the man who was possessed, but we never discussed the deliverance. You were right when you said that we should look for as much evidence as possible, but some credible witnesses have the honesty and professionalism required to build a convincing case based on their testimonials. It's fine if people don't believe a stranger's story, but they might believe an account that comes from known, trusted people in their own lives.

[Detective Mystery 2013]

Arpee, on 24 February 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Yes, [some] aliens are demons and so are humans. Like attracts like.

Nice Earthlings get visitations from friendly Grays? Mean ones get abducted by reptilian humanoids with PMS?

[Detective Mystery 2013]

Rlyeh, on 24 February 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Why does it have to be demons? Demons already get blamed for enough. Why not choose a different mythology? Maybe aliens are really olympians from Mount Olympus.

You answered your own question. Of course, Steve Quayle claimed that Greek gods really were demons (no kidding).

[Detective Mystery 2013]

LuisSmith515, on 26 February 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

some may be,but at what point? I believe there's a line for what we consider a demon if the ones to write the bible where accurate it's obviously aliens that play as god.Soo many accounts of people getting taken in the sky by god Jesus was lifted and taken to heaven ya for some the fact of demons spiritual Beens and angels been spiritual and all are an assumption of opinion of the writers unless told to be written as so by aliens,but if for assumption of opinion they couldn't explain it at the time with their limited explanations.Now who really are considered the aliens in my opinion the devil is not bad,but broke a rule for giving us knowledge therefore considered a demon along the ones that helped them,but there's no full angel nor demon for it's like saying there's no full good person nor bad and that's obviously credible however it's common sense they're divine yet   there shouldn't be mistakes therefore this same alien race put some in the demon category sadly because contributing in our intelligence.

Some people made careers out of the theories that you mentioned in your post. Their books and tapes claimed that extraterrestrials served as the inspirations for beings and figures found in ancient literature of all kinds. They brought up cultural commonalities to prove that their contentions were right. I always thought that such similarities sprang forth from shared psyches rather than shared events.

[topsecretresearch]

I talked to a rich kid with the last name LeSalle related to Jones Lang Lasalle/ Lasalle Partners. He told to that ETs were really deities and seemed real spooked when I brought up the subject.

[Zaphod222]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 10 February 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

Many people claim this,

Oh really. Do they now.
Well how about this: Is the Flying Spaghetti Monster really an Electric Sheep?

You ponder about that. The question is just as meaningfull as the one in the topic header.

[psyche101]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 22 February 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

I never saw the event. A parson and his daughter told me. They were very honest, and the man's congregation witnessed the event too. I also met the man who once was possessed. He joined the church after the exorcism. I doubt that it was a mass hallucination. They saw the same thing at the same time and same place. It was a spontaneous experience that was witnessed in real time. The malignant entities had physical, tangible forms. They were as visible as clouds or smoke. The deliverance wasn't like some faked, staged "exorcism" like some questionable moments at a Bob Larson event. BTW, your civil tone was much noted.

Thank you, I have no intention to "bust" or "debunk" anyone, but if a real tangible phenomena exists, I would like to know more. I might ask questions more than once to keep certain trains of thought straight in my head. As I say, personal experience has removed any inclination I had to consider an afterlife, but I feel that does not mean a phenomena exists that is simply not understood.

OK, pastor and daughter, but that means you are down to two people, not a room full of witnesses, and many religious people in the position of Pastor or equivalent have also said they believe completely in evil, and that they have exorcised such, but I do believe if Richard Dawkins was in the same room, we would certainly have two differing explanations for the one event.
One thing that does concern me is that many people have claimed to be professional exorcists, and inadvertently killed what they considered were possessed people. This is too easily written of as Satan's fault. Some religions even ban moderns medicine, and children have died as a result of their parents faith. This make me think we really ought to consider the claims more closely and not pander to ancient superstitions, but start with a clean slate.

[DBunker]

topsecretresearch, on 26 February 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

I talked to a rich kid with the last name LeSalle related to Jones Lang Lasalle/ Lasalle Partners. He told to that ETs were really deities and seemed real spooked when I brought up the subject.

If someone brought that up with me, in real life, I would too.