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The Paranormal is it Fake?


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#796    White Crane Feather

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:43 PM

View PostEinsteinium, on 23 August 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:



Yeah he will not meet with Magola becaue Magola wants Randi to travel TO HIM. Hell, all Magola has to do is travel to Randi and prove his ability and a cool million bucks will be his. That would sure motivate me to travel! Magicians can do things like this and it does not require one to be magnetic just requires one to know the tricks of the trade.
Magola has been tested in front of cameras while hook up to machines monitored by reputable scientists. Readings show large changes in his physiology. Unless its all a big lie orchestrated by the television show, it would seem he is doing more than parlor tricks. Just because magicians can replicate something with trickery does not invalidate Someone who may be doing it without.... It's an asinine assumption. Any thing can be replicated. I have looked for anything debunking magola other than the assumptions of randi, so far nothing. What I read is that magola is perfectly willing to be tested by randi even to the point of responding to randis assumption with video, but randi will not meet with him. It's not that magola will not come to him it's that randi will not meet him in public. Randi will not let the test be public. But who knows. If I had an ability I certainly would not perform it for a skeptical magician in private who stands to loose a million bucks.  Magola was featured on Stan lees super humans and his abilities were tested.

I'm open to debunking information, but no one has any. If he cannot be debunked, scientific instruments show he actually undergoes biological changes, and a master magician that tests these things throws up smoke screens ( ;) ) and insults and won't meet with him, then I am only left with the evidence available.  Why doesn't randi simply put the matter to rest?

Edited by White Crane Feather, 23 August 2013 - 07:50 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#797    Leonardo

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:55 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 23 August 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Randi will not publically meet with Mirislaw Magola.

The video you posted of Magola does not show him exhibiting any kind of magnetic property, or "thought power" (except clever thinking in how to fool the gullible.) He was using suction to lift the bowl. The clue is in how he placed his palm, slightly cupped, on the base of the bowl then pressed down (slowly, so as not to blow any talc into the air and give his trick away) and waited for a short while before lifting.

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#798    Einsteinium

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:55 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 23 August 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

Magola has been tested in front of cameras while hook up to machines monitored by reputable scientists. Readings show large changes in his physiology. Unless its all a big lie orchestrated by the television show, it would seem he is doing more than parlor tricks. Just because magicians can replicate something with trickery does not invalidate Someone who may be doing it without.... It's an asinine assumption. Any thing can be replicated. I have looked for anything debunking magola other than the assumptions of randi, so far nothing. What I read is that magola is perfectly willing to be tested by randi even to the point of responding to randis assumption with video, but randi will not meet with him. It's not that magola will not come to him it's that randi will not meet him in public. Randi will not let the test be public. But who knows. If I had an ability I certainly would not perform it for a skeptical magician in private who stands to loose a million bucks.  Magola was featured on Stan lees super humans and his abilities were tested.

I'm open to debunking information, but no one has any. If he cannot be debunked, scientific instruments show he actually undergoes biological changes, and a master magician that tests these things throws up smoke screens ( ;) ) and insults and won't meet with him, then I am only left with the evidence available.  Why doesn't randi simply put the matter to rest?

Interesting information! I have looked into this further and now I am starting to agree that there is something too this guy Magnola. I hope more tests and more information will be forthcoming! Fascinating!


#799    White Crane Feather

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:43 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 23 August 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:



The video you posted of Magola does not show him exhibiting any kind of magnetic property, or "thought power" (except clever thinking in how to fool the gullible.) He was using suction to lift the bowl. The clue is in how he placed his palm, slightly cupped, on the base of the bowl then pressed down (slowly, so as not to blow any talc into the air and give his trick away) and waited for a short while before lifting.
The powder would prevent suction and dry up moisture. It's a nice try at explaining something. But offering conjecture is not debunking. I could say he surgically had a magnet implanted in his hand to, but that is still just conjecture.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#800    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 11:06 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 23 August 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

The powder would prevent suction and dry up moisture. It's a nice try at explaining something. But offering conjecture is not debunking. I could say he surgically had a magnet implanted in his hand to, but that is still just conjecture.

You mean the powder that he dumps and then promptly wipes off with his opposite hand?  Why wipe it off at all if he has magnetic or telekinetic powers, powder shouldn't interfere with either of those?  Why is he taking so long once he puts his hand on the bowl, if he's not using suction that is and is not using moisture on his hands to adhere.

Conjecture is not debunking, true, but there's nothing to debunk here because he hasn't really demonstrated anything; he certainly hasn't demonstrated that he has any powers, speaking of 'conjecture'.  I wonder how well he would do if we kept the powder on and drilled a few holes in the bowl so he can't form a seal for suction.  Or yes, maybe he has powers that would only overturn and revise several well-established scientific theories and be the most astounding discovery of our lifetimes, that's quite probable, after all, we all just saw it on youtube...

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#801    Leonardo

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 11:18 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 23 August 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

The powder would prevent suction and dry up moisture. It's a nice try at explaining something. But offering conjecture is not debunking. I could say he surgically had a magnet implanted in his hand to, but that is still just conjecture.

As Liquid Garden has said, I'm not debunking, and I never claimed I was. Magola, however, is in that very video claiming to be debunking Randi's exposure by using talc, of other so-called "magnetic people" . But what Magola is doing is not done under the strict conditions necessary to qualify as 'evidence', else I would not be able to point out that he could be achieving the effect via suction and be correct in stating that. Therefore it cannot be 'debunking'.

So, rather than accuse me of falsely claiming to be debunking - when I never made that claim - you should be accusing Magola of making that false claim. Because he did make that claim, falsely.

Edited by Leonardo, 23 August 2013 - 11:21 PM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

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"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#802    Frank Merton

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:23 AM

Tricks are tricks; the magician or fraudster knows the trick and you don't, and it's simple foolish arrogance to think that seeing is believing.

Also, if it is possible for magicians to duplicate the trick, then the explanation is trickery; do not assume outré explanations when mundane ones are available.  Even if magicians cannot duplicate he trick, give them awhile.

This sort of thinking is the foundation of healthy scepticism; thinking otherwise only leave you open to accepting lies.


#803    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:00 AM

For the record I do think this might be a trick, but I think suction is unlikely . The issue here is not the reality of what magola can or cannot do. I first saw this on stan lees superhumans. it features a skeptic that investigates these things, and magola passed his tests. Including scientific ones. I was intrigued. The test seemd  real and  the results were convincing for the host.

The issue here is that no matter what noone will really consider the possibility that magola may have somehow learned to magnetize his hands. His physiology changed according to stan lees testes. While im skeptical of any television show it seemed like a legitimate effort. Especially in other episodes there was nothing unbelievable. There dosnt seem to be any debunking other than speculation... suction, wet skin...etc etc. It seems that he is legitimately willing to be tested by Randi in public.

If magola was really doing this, no one would believe him. apparently His physiology can change, he makes videos like skeptic always ask, he put talcum powder as on it as Randi requested....there is plenty of powder on it after he wipes off the excess, any an all kind of conjecture has been used. No matter what he does, if it were real, he could not prove it was some sort of ability rather than trickery. Even if he hooks electrodes up to his brain and scientists measure him. Even if he did it a 1000 time people would always cry foul.

This is called psudo skepticism.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#804    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:02 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 24 August 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Tricks are tricks; the magician or fraudster knows the trick and you don't, and it's simple foolish arrogance to think that seeing is believing.

Also, if it is possible for magicians to duplicate the trick, then the explanation is trickery; do not assume outré explanations when mundane ones are available.  Even if magicians cannot duplicate he trick, give them awhile.

This sort of thinking is the foundation of healthy scepticism; thinking otherwise only leave you open to accepting lies.
It is absolutely not. I don't assume anything that's the problem psudoskeptics have. Duplicating something does not invalidate something. It only proves that it can be duplicated. Im going to coin the phrase psudoskeptics Folly.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#805    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:18 AM

View PostJeremiah65, on 21 August 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Incorrect....Frank...you disappoint me on this one.  listen and learn.

There has always been a huge question about what caused the "rise" of civilization...the catalyst that caused thoughts like 'lets stack rocks together and make shelter"....

There is proof that the ancients began ingesting acacia wood and other hallucinogenics...aka...for the educated..."mind expanding drugs"....

These "shaman" that participated in these "journeys"...then rose to be the chiefs, the leaders, the kings and the pharaohs....there is no empirical proof of this...only hints and suggestion.

They are called "mind expanding" for a reason.  Perhaps you have not read into it and I respect that.  You can choose to look and see or you can choose to let sterotypes stand alone without investigation of your own...a choice.

Stanislav Grof did some absolutely amazing research into hallucinogens and the commonality of experience...I am not going to try and convince you because I am just a nut loose on a keyboard...but if you REALLY want to know...I suggest you start there.  He did more studies into the effects and patterns of experience into hallucinogenic experiences than anyone else on the planet...ever.  There is more to this than the "war on drugs" is willing to let you know...you have to hunt...and I mean bloodhound hard core hunt to find things...but you might just be surprised what the dean of psychiatry and psychology at John Hopkins University recorded in his studies....

It is more than just..."a thing"...

I invite you on a journey Frank...and the Journey starts with studying the research of a man named Stanislov Grof (or Graf as it is sometimes spelled)

I agree with frank. If you require a drug to alter your brain's normal function then the evidences your brain produces are neither "normal" nor reliable. But Shamanism requires no drugs, only the abilty to naturally enter a state of altered consciousness, or to learn how to interconnect with the world/environment /other people in different but natural ways. One can talk wth animals trees etc without the aid of any drug. One can reach into the cosmic consciousness and "meld" minds, without any form of drug and using a perfectly sane, non delusional,a nd very rational mind.These are natural normal albilities for human beings No drugs of any sort required, and not taking drugs ensures they can be observed, recorded and analysed, accurately, dispassionately, and with a clear rational mind..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#806    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:03 AM

Shamans use all sorts of ways to alter consciousness besides drugs.  I can do so with hypnotic breathing and it is perhaps interesting but not spiritual.  When I begin to converse with trees I know things have gone too far.


#807    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:08 AM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 26 August 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

It is absolutely not. I don't assume anything that's the problem psudoskeptics have. Duplicating something does not invalidate something. It only proves that it can be duplicated. Im going to coin the phrase psudoskeptics.
The folly is you trust your own personal judgement without standards.  This is arrogance, and leaves you open to being conned.


#808    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:32 AM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 26 August 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

For the record I do think this might be a trick, but I think suction is unlikely . The issue here is not the reality of what magola can or cannot do. I first saw this on stan lees superhumans. it features a skeptic that investigates these things, and magola passed his tests. Including scientific ones. I was intrigued. The test seemd  real and  the results were convincing for the host.

The issue here is that no matter what noone will really consider the possibility that magola may have somehow learned to magnetize his hands. His physiology changed according to stan lees testes. While im skeptical of any television show it seemed like a legitimate effort. Especially in other episodes there was nothing unbelievable. There dosnt seem to be any debunking other than speculation... suction, wet skin...etc etc. It seems that he is legitimately willing to be tested by Randi in public.

If magola was really doing this, no one would believe him. apparently His physiology can change, he makes videos like skeptic always ask, he put talcum powder as on it as Randi requested....there is plenty of powder on it after he wipes off the excess, any an all kind of conjecture has been used. No matter what he does, if it were real, he could not prove it was some sort of ability rather than trickery. Even if he hooks electrodes up to his brain and scientists measure him. Even if he did it a 1000 time people would always cry foul.

This is called psudo skepticism.

But let me guess, you 'for the record' think that it might be a trick but that's because of real skepticism, not that pseudo kind.  I'll consider the possibility that he magnetized his hands somehow, that alone is also an incredible claim unless he's had magnetic metal implanted or something, I'll consider that he has telekinesis, which is what I thought he must really have, I thought he could do this with non-magnetic material also but not sure.  Regardless, you don't really think that the evidence that has been provided here is very good do you?  There's nothing 'pseudo-' about questioning claims provided by television shows and internet videos of all things, jeez.

And of course he could prove he has some sort of ability rather than this being trickery, again, these bias accusations aren't really arguments or evidence.  I'm supposed to not notice that for some reason he oddly (i.e., conveniently) actually has to touch what he's going to lift?  Magnetism and telekinesis both work at a distance I thought.  I'm not supposed to notice that the magnetic people who stick a metal pot to their forehead are always tilting their head back?  Let me guess, if they tilt their head forward much more their powers won't be strong enough to stick it there, how incredibly convenient.  There are multiple ways these powers could be demonstrated pretty much without question, and I really don't think you should be discussing skepticism, pseudo or otherwise, if you really think any of this evidence is close to that.

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#809    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:12 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 August 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

The folly is you trust your own personal judgement without standards.  This is arrogance, and leaves you open to being conned.
Actually I I should have said I try not to assume anything. Yes I am an individualist I trust myself before others I am open to being wrong but not just because someone says I am. They better be able to prove it to me. Unlikely, I have never been conned and quit a few in my life have tried. I keep an open mind but make my own decisions. Well maby I did get conned on the mortgage on my first house ... But I was only 27. It won't happen again.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#810    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:20 AM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 26 August 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:



But let me guess, you 'for the record' think that it might be a trick but that's because of real skepticism, not that pseudo kind.  I'll consider the possibility that he magnetized his hands somehow, that alone is also an incredible claim unless he's had magnetic metal implanted or something, I'll consider that he has telekinesis, which is what I thought he must really have, I thought he could do this with non-magnetic material also but not sure.  Regardless, you don't really think that the evidence that has been provided here is very good do you?  There's nothing 'pseudo-' about questioning claims provided by television shows and internet videos of all things, jeez.

And of course he could prove he has some sort of ability rather than this being trickery, again, these bias accusations aren't really arguments or evidence.  I'm supposed to not notice that for some reason he oddly (i.e., conveniently) actually has to touch what he's going to lift?  Magnetism and telekinesis both work at a distance I thought.  I'm not supposed to notice that the magnetic people who stick a metal pot to their forehead are always tilting their head back?  Let me guess, if they tilt their head forward much more their powers won't be strong enough to stick it there, how incredibly convenient.  There are multiple ways these powers could be demonstrated pretty much without question, and I really don't think you should be discussing skepticism, pseudo or otherwise, if you really think any of this evidence is close to that.
Yes I think I heard he did it with ceramics. Don't know I didn't see it. The point is LG, if the effect was a real bio electric ability the world would miss out if a bunch of stuffy cynical Randy's mounted a smear campaign against him, and so far it sort of looks like that.

I heard from reading somewhere a while ago that national geographic was planning  on doing a documentary on him soon. After the tests performed on him on Stan lees super humans. It could be propaganda on magolas part, but it will be awesome if they do make one.

Edited by White Crane Feather, 26 August 2013 - 02:20 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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