supercar Posted August 18, 2006 #1 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) Congressman Kenny C. Hulshof June 15, 2006 In both Iraq and Afghanistan, we find ourselves locked in a struggle with an enemy that despises liberty and embraces an ideology of hate. Terrorists did not declare war on us the morning of September 11, 2001. It started long before that. Consider the following: In November of 1979, radical Iranians seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, holding 53 American hostages for 444 days. Less than four years later, 63 people died when the U.S. Embassy in Beirut is bombed. Scant months later, 242 Americans and 58 French are killed by simultaneous suicide bombers in the American and French compounds in Beirut. March 1984, Islamic terrorists kidnapped and murdered Political Officer William Buckley. One year later, terrorists seized the Italian cruise liner the Achille Lauro and killed Leon Klinghoffer, a 69-year-old American who was confined to a wheelchair. In June of 1985, Lebanese Hizballah terrorists hijacked a TWA flight forcing the plane to fly to Beirut. Eight crew members and 145 passengers are held hostage for 17 days, during which time a U.S. sailor is murdered. April 1986, two U.S. soldiers are killed and 79 are injured when Libyan nationals detonated bombs in a West Berlin discotheque. Two years later, Libyans again take American lives when Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland. All of the 259 people on board are killed. On February 26, 1993, for the first time, Islamic terrorists strike on American soil when a car bomb explodes in the garage of the World Trade Center, killing six and injuring 1,000. On April 14, 1993, Iraqi intelligence operatives attempted to assassinate former President Bush. In 1995, a car bomb exploded at a U.S. military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, one U.S. citizen is killed. Seven months later a truck bomb detonated outside the Khobar Towers in Dhahram, Saudi Arabia. Nineteen Airmen are killed and 515 people are wounded. In August of 1998, the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania fall victim to coordinated attacks. Over 300 are killed. Two years latter, a small watercraft laden with explosives rammed into the U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 U.S. sailors. Finally, September 11, 2001, two hijacked airliners hit the World Trade Center towers, another plane crashed into the Pentagon and a fourth plane, headed for either the White House or U.S. Capitol Building in Washington, D.C., crashed in a Pennsylvania cornfield. All told, 3,025 perish. But until we took action in Afghanistan, our response to terror was often non-existent, sporadic, or inconsistent. In the wake of September 11, the American people rightfully demanded that their elected officials make a commitment to aggressively combat terrorism. We went into Afghanistan to proactively stop further attacks on innocent Americans. Afghanistan was a haven for al-Qaeda, and the terror attacks on our own soil showed us that we can no longer rely on oceans and geography to protect our homeland from attack. Thus, we must drain the swamps where terrorism breeds and take the fight to those who have, through their own words and deeds, declared war on us. In addition to the real-life need to protect our citizens, there is a larger meaning in our efforts in the Global War on Terror. Those we fight abhor freedom and liberty. They shun religious tolerance and view with disdain our deeply held belief that every person is endowed with basic human rights. And make no doubt about it--our enemy in the Global War on Terror is determined to impose their dangerous ideology on innocent people around the globe. The carnage of September 11 showed us that we can no longer turn a blind-eye as hate-filled terrorists plot against our Nation and its citizens. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/ge...cid=cr23jn06-52 Edited August 19, 2006 by supercar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Slayer Posted August 18, 2006 #2 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Could it possibly have something to do with the obvious western presence in the middle east at the time? The Palestine-question. The oil. The support of dictators. Etc etc. Everything happens for a reason. Islam was/is just a channel for frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercar Posted August 18, 2006 Author #3 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Could it possibly have something to do with the obvious western presence in the middle east at the time? The Palestine-question. The oil. The support of dictators. Etc etc. Everything happens for a reason. Islam was/is just a channel for frustration. Sounds like you are condoning the terrorist attacks on the United States. There is nothing that justifies the actions of the terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 18, 2006 #4 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Sounds like you are condoning the terrorist attacks on the United States. There is nothing that justifies the actions of the terrorists. i think he's just pointing out that the US creates its own future problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercar Posted August 18, 2006 Author #5 Share Posted August 18, 2006 i think he's just pointing out that the US creates its own future problems So if the US does something to upset someone,it's alright for them to kill thousands of innocent people in retaliation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 18, 2006 #6 Share Posted August 18, 2006 So if the US does something to upset someone,it's alright for them to kill thousands of innocent people in retaliation? This isn't a discussion of Right or wrong, but rather what actions are more likely to create problems in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROCES Posted August 18, 2006 #7 Share Posted August 18, 2006 This isn't a discussion of Right or wrong, but rather what actions are more likely to create problems in the future And what action is that may I ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 18, 2006 #8 Share Posted August 18, 2006 And what action is that may I ask? For example we were the ones who supported the Shah of Iran which lead to the Iranian Revolution and caused the current regime to be formed We helped to support Saddam against Iran for years We helped to train and organize the Mujahideen forces against the USSR just to name a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skeptic Eric Raven Posted August 18, 2006 #9 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Mid east will never have peace. Just a fact. Israel will have be destroyed or the arab states. Hating the US has take hold to strongly over there. Many arab states wish to bring on armageddon. Muslim fascism is destroying the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROCES Posted August 18, 2006 #10 Share Posted August 18, 2006 For example we were the ones who supported the Shah of Iran which lead to the Iranian Revolution and caused the current regime to be formed We helped to support Saddam against Iran for years We helped to train and organize the Mujahideen forces against the USSR just to name a few - We supported the Shah, and then we abadoned him and Iran had it's revolution. Why are they still angry at America? Egypt and Israel are now at Peace, Great Britain and Germany, USA and Japan. Don't you think it goes now beyond the support for the Shah that is causing the hatred? - Yes, we did support Iraq during that war. I would say it was one of the bad move that America did. Saddam did not change a bit and still was the evil tyrant he is. - It was the USSR then that was the threat to America. Unfortunately that support America did to the Mujahedeen did not establish any lasting relationship. Was it a bad move? We can say now it was.. Maybe , but it kept the USSR at bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 18, 2006 #11 Share Posted August 18, 2006 - We supported the Shah, and then we abadoned him and Iran had it's revolution. Why are they still angry at America? Egypt and Israel are now at Peace, Great Britain and Germany, USA and Japan. Don't you think it goes now beyond the support for the Shah that is causing the hatred? The asked us to return him for trial at one point to stand trial - Yes, we did support Iraq during that war. I would say it was one of the bad move that America did. Saddam did not change a bit and still was the evil tyrant he is. - It was the USSR then that was the threat to America. Unfortunately that support America did to the Mujahedeen did not establish any lasting relationship. Was it a bad move? We can say now it was.. Maybe , but it kept the USSR at bay. USSR was already well on its way to collapse, long before the invasion of Afghanistan (in fact a back in the 50's there was a computer model run which showed that the USSR economy would collapse well before the year 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROCES Posted August 18, 2006 #12 Share Posted August 18, 2006 The asked us to return him for trial at one point to stand trial USSR was already well on its way to collapse, long before the invasion of Afghanistan (in fact a back in the 50's there was a computer model run which showed that the USSR economy would collapse well before the year 2000 - So, we did not cooperate? The Shah is gone, the revolution was scuccessful and they know control their own destiny. So, why the continous hatred for America? - Maybe, but they were still the USSR then. The computer does no gurantee of the future, it is not a crystal ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 18, 2006 #13 Share Posted August 18, 2006 - So, we did not cooperate? The Shah is gone, the revolution was scuccessful and they know control their own destiny. So, why the continous hatred for America? - Maybe, but they were still the USSR then. The computer does no gurantee of the future, it is not a crystal ball. Imagine if some country had harbored Hitler after the war and allowed him to escape punishment, do your really think the Jews, Russians, etc. would have been friends with that country? True, but we should keep an eye on our future when we undertake actions in the interantional scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROCES Posted August 18, 2006 #14 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Imagine if some country had harbored Hitler after the war and allowed him to escape punishment, do your really think the Jews, Russians, etc. would have been friends with that country? True, but we should keep an eye on our future when we undertake actions in the interantional scene. Germany bombed London, US nuked Japan, Israel defeated Egypt's army twice and they are at peace now. Don't you think the Shah issue is quite petty for such hatred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 18, 2006 #15 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Germany bombed London, US nuked Japan, Israel defeated Egypt's army twice and they are at peace now. Don't you think the Shah issue is quite petty for such hatred? Well see the difference is US continued to oppose Iran after the Revolution, like giving Saddam Chemical weapons during the Iran Iraq War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROCES Posted August 18, 2006 #16 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Well see the difference is US continued to oppose Iran after the Revolution, like giving Saddam Chemical weapons during the Iran Iraq War US gave him his Chemical weapons? Now where did you hear that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted August 18, 2006 #17 Share Posted August 18, 2006 On April 14, 1993, Iraqi intelligence operatives attempted to assassinate former President Bush. That wasnt terrorism, that was a state ordered assasination, however it failed. All told the US could of used that as an ecuse for war back then, but they had just finished the First Gulf War. ~Thanato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 18, 2006 #18 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) US gave him his Chemical weapons? Now where did you hear that? US companies: The Independent Alcolac International, for example, a Maryland company, transported thiodiglycol, a mustard gas precursor, to Iraq. Alcolac was small and was successfully prosecuted for its violations of export control law. The firm pleaded guilty in 1989. The Al Haddad trading company of Tennessee delivered 60 tons of DMMP, a chemical used to make sarin, a nerve gas implicated in so-called Gulf War Syndrome. Also on Biolgocial weapons On 25 May 1994, The U.S. Senate Banking Committee released a report in which it was stated that pathogenic (meaning disease producing), toxigenic (meaning poisonous) and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq, pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[30] The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Anthrax Bacillus) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding that "these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."[31] A report by Berlin's Die Tageszeitung in 2002 reported that Iraq's 11,000-page report to the UN Security Council listed 150 foreign companies that supported Saddam Hussein's WMD program. Twenty-four U.S. firms were involved in exporting arms and materials to Baghdad [32] Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that made the report, said, "UN inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs." He added, "the executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record." Wikipedia Edited August 18, 2006 by Avinash_Tyagi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROCES Posted August 19, 2006 #19 Share Posted August 19, 2006 US companies: The Independent Alcolac International, for example, a Maryland company, transported thiodiglycol, a mustard gas precursor, to Iraq. Alcolac was small and was successfully prosecuted for its violations of export control law. The firm pleaded guilty in 1989. The Al Haddad trading company of Tennessee delivered 60 tons of DMMP, a chemical used to make sarin, a nerve gas implicated in so-called Gulf War Syndrome. Also on Biolgocial weapons On 25 May 1994, The U.S. Senate Banking Committee released a report in which it was stated that pathogenic (meaning disease producing), toxigenic (meaning poisonous) and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq, pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[30] The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Anthrax Bacillus) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding that "these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."[31] A report by Berlin's Die Tageszeitung in 2002 reported that Iraq's 11,000-page report to the UN Security Council listed 150 foreign companies that supported Saddam Hussein's WMD program. Twenty-four U.S. firms were involved in exporting arms and materials to Baghdad [32] Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that made the report, said, "UN inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs." He added, "the executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record." Wikipedia It was an illegal purchase and they got prosecuted for it. There is no proof that the US government actually supplied Iraq with Chemical Weapons. What has been approve for sales was Biological ingredients and what Iraq use against Iran and the Kurds was mustard gas, which is not a biological weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 19, 2006 #20 Share Posted August 19, 2006 It was an illegal purchase and they got prosecuted for it. There is no proof that the US government actually supplied Iraq with Chemical Weapons. What has been approve for sales was Biological ingredients and what Iraq use against Iran and the Kurds was mustard gas, which is not a biological weapon. Well true, but to the Iranians it no doubt looked like the US was helping Iraq to kill thousands of their people, which is why the hate hasn't abated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROCES Posted August 19, 2006 #21 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Well true, but to the Iranians it no doubt looked like the US was helping Iraq to kill thousands of their people, which is why the hate hasn't abated Because there are those who wants the hatred to continue on for a different vendetta. They hate America for America is what stands on their way to the world dominance that they seek. Americas belief and way of life will clash with theirs, and that is the reason they hate America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 19, 2006 #22 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Because there are those who wants the hatred to continue on for a different vendetta. They hate America for America is what stands on their way to the world dominance that they seek. Americas belief and way of life will clash with theirs, and that is the reason they hate America. If you totally ignore the past in understanding why people do things you'll always find yourself in problems. Much of the Current Iranian Govt. is filled with Iran-Iraq war veterans, to totally ignore that what they experienced is part of their hatred will leave you unable to understand them, and as Sun Tzu said If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROCES Posted August 19, 2006 #23 Share Posted August 19, 2006 If you totally ignore the past in understanding why people do things you'll always find yourself in problems. Much of the Current Iranian Govt. is filled with Iran-Iraq war veterans, to totally ignore that what they experienced is part of their hatred will leave you unable to understand them, and as Sun Tzu said If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.. So what do you suggest? We get on our knees and ask for forgiveness? You think that will make them like us instead??? NO, so we do what we are doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuriken Posted August 19, 2006 #24 Share Posted August 19, 2006 They hate America for America is what stands on their way to the world dominance that they seek. C'mon, thats so untrue. Dominance of the world? Which muslim country is seeking it? Now we do know that US has this campaign of dominating the worlds fossil resources and to gain it, its using every means necessary. You think that will make them like us instead??? NO, so we do what we are doing now. So it's only two options now? Either they like us and we get along, or they hate us and we crush them? Sound a bit barbaric... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash_Tyagi Posted August 19, 2006 #25 Share Posted August 19, 2006 So what do you suggest? We get on our knees and ask for forgiveness? You think that will make them like us instead??? NO, so we do what we are doing now. Yes because our method is working so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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